A Quick Guide to Pathfinder Sorcerers

[Dazaras]

A few weeks ago I made a guide to sorcerer spell selection. I was pretty happy with how that turned out, so I decided to expand it into a full sorcerer guide. It's taken a while, but here is the final product:
A Quick Guide to Pathfinder Sorcerers: gods don't need spellbooks

If I've overlooked anything especially good or made any mistakes, please let me know.

[Quori]

Thanks, always good to add additional thoughts on spell selection (especially for Sorcerer's).

I will bookmark and read both documents when I have time.

Cheers.

[Ismodai]

you could add that a few racial options for tieflings (like the rakshasa) have a +2 CHA so, that plus the sorcerer bloodlines that add a +2 to cha is an amazing combo

[Douglas Muir 406]

With regard to bloodlines, just a comment on the Rakshasa bloodline. It's overall somewhat mediocre, but can become good-to-excellent if you pile on the Bluff skill -- your bloodline +5 to Bluff lets you build a character who by ~6th or 7th level can regularly Bluff at +25 or so. This is really quite powerful; it means you can tell far-fetched lies with ease, and have a better than even chance of convincing ordinary people of complete impossibilities. By 10th level you can easily achieve Bluffs in excess of +30, which starts to look like this: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0767.html.

For these reasons, while the Rak bloodline overall is still orange, I'd move the "Silver Tongue" ability to blue-green -- it's green at all times, blue if you build a character around it. There just aren't that many things that give you a whopping +5 bonus to such a powerful and broadly useful skill. Similarly, while most of the rak bloodline feats are pretty crap, "Deceitful" jumps to at least green because it lets you build on your already awesome Bluff.

Additionally, the "Hide Aura" power is quite a bit better than it seems at first glance. If you go back and read carefully, you'll see that nondetection is really "anyone who wants to cast any sort of divination against you must make a caster level check against DC 15 + your caster level". That's *any* divination. That shifts this bloodline power from crappy to pretty darn good. It's basically SR against divination spells! An equal-level caster will always have a 70% chance of failing any divination cast against you -- See Invisibility, Scrying, True Seeing, Detect Thoughts, Locate Weakness, whatever. So I think that one is pretty solid green as well.

The fact that rak is pretty useless for anything /but/ a specialized character built around Bluff means that it's still an orange bloodline overall, to be sure. But I just wanted to point those two things out.

BTW, for a sample straight rak sorceror built for heavy Bluffing and spy work, here's a thread:http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz586t?Rakshasa-bloodline-sorcerorspy. And for a multiclass NPC version, here's another: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5qx6?Character-concept-the-potion-salesman#13.

cheers,

Doug M.

[Dazaras]

I did mention tieflings under "other races" (alongside Ifrit, the other race with a bonus to charisma and an additonal bonus with a specific bloodline).

I agree that the bluff skill is powerful when you get it high enough. I guess I just got hung up on the Silver Tongue power being attached to an otherwise circumstantial bloodline. It is definitely one of the best first level bloodline powers, but that isn't really saying much. I'm not sure I want to rate it blue though. I don't like to do half-colors, but I'll make a note in the power.

I missed the second half of nondetection, which does make the Hide Aura power quite a bit better. I'll change that, I think it should be at least orange. SR against divinations still isn't very good, especially since the rest of your party probably lacks similar protection.

[Darksyde]

Just out of curiosity I was wondering why you did not include Expanded Arcana in the feats section?

You mention in the races category that more spells is a good thing and this feet can give you 2 a go and can be taken more than once. It is an aspect I am kind of keen on for my own sorcerer in an up coming game. The idea of 4 new spells known ever 2 levels sounds fantastic on paper but I may very well be missing something sine I play very little Pathfinder.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Dazaras wrote:

I missed the second half of nondetection, which does make the Hide Aura power quite a bit better. I'll change that, I think it should be at least orange. SR against divinations still isn't very good, especially since the rest of your party probably lacks similar protection.

This sort of thing is why I think the rak bloodline is better for building NPCs. Often, incredibly annoying NPCs. A single invisible character who can't be found with Detect Invisible (or any other detection or divination spell), who can read minds, and who can convince almost anyone of anything? That's a potential recurring foe right there.

The rak bloodline is also pretty good for multiclassing. A rak sorceror who picks the right rogue archetype can basically take over a small city by midlevels, and IMS there are some hair-raising synergies with ninja tricks as well. But, again, all these require you to be a Bluff Monkey who is built around Silver Tongue. If you want to go that route, this is a great bloodline. If you want to do anything else, play something else.

Doug M.

[Fromper]

Good to see another guide. The one thing you seem to be missing is archetypes.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Okay, one other quibble. I agree that the Maestro bloodline is poorly designed and overall deserves its rating of red. However, "Perfect Voice" should definitely be green if not blue. It's Speak With Anything, Anywhere, Anytime: if it has a language, you can talk to it. No limitation on uses, no standard action to activate. It's basically an improved version of the Tongues spell that is switched on all the time.

Whether this is decent or awesome depends on what kind of DM you have. If you're in the sort of campaign where the DM doesn't really bother with languages -- everyone speaks Common or is telepathic -- then it's marginal. But if your campaign makes some use of languages, and you occasionally run into something you can't otherwise talk to (or that will be impressed if you can speak its language), then this ability is somewhere between good and excellent -- and that's before the +1 bonus on language dependent spells kicks in. There are only a few of these, it's true, but they include some heavy save-or-suck spells such as Suggestion and Geas. Also, this is one of the more stackable bonuses; for instance, the Charming trait grants +1 to language-dependent spells ("against creatures that could be sexually attracted to you") and so does Magical Linguist for gnomes. So by 8th level or so, you should have little difficulty pumping out DC 21 or 22 Suggestions.

But to bring it back: you correctly point out that you can get this ability, more or less, with Summon Monster III. Or with Tongues, yah? So what you've got is an ability that is equivalent to having a 3rd level spell on all the time. In fact, you can have exactly that by casting Permanency and Tongues on yourself. Except that you have to be 11th level, and it costs 7500 gp, and can be dispelled. This has an effect that's slightly better than Perma-Tongues and is free and can't be dispelled, and that throws in a +1 DC bonus on several popular and useful spells.

So while the utility of this ability depends on the particular GM and campaign, it's definitely not red.

cheers,

Doug M.

[deuxhero]

When you do the archetypes, note that Razmiran Priest, while VERY hard for RP, is effectively the 3.5 Archivist but Single Attribute Dependent, can use any of his spells "known" spontaneously (and for level 1-4, insanely cheep if you can buy 1 charge wands) and needs a slot 1 level higher than normal (which isn't that big a deal when you are getting spells at a discounted level from domains, Inquisitor, Adept, (anti)Paladin and Ranger). The flat out better False Focus over Eschew materials is just gravy, especially when you note Fabricate's raw materials are the material component and not the target (Any 300 GP mundane item that fully exists forever you want is just cool, even if you aren't selling it).

For your bloodline guide, Empyreal is good for multiclassing (generally the Zen Arcane Archer build or Cleric MT, though Oracle/Sorc beats that). Sage I don't see anything great for though.

[harmor]

Looks like your guide is in the Guide to the Guides.

[Dazaras]

@Darksyde: I did not include Expanded Arcana because I forgot about it. I forgot about it because it is a very forgettable feat. I do like bonus spells known, but only one or two are not worth a feat slot the large majority of the time, imho.

@Douglas Muir: That would be an incredibly annoying NPC. I can also see a character looking to max out bluff taking a sorcerer dip for the Silver Tongue power (or getting it via Eldritch Heritage). I didn't really write this guide with those characters in mind, but I can make a note of it anyway.

I have trouble seeing a case where a continuous tongues spell would be helpful. If you're dealing with creatures who don't appreciate a lantern archon intermediary, you could always pick up the actual tongues spell and have it available whenever you need it. The +1 to language-dependant spells is the majority of the reason why I rated it orange, since that does cover quite a few spells. It's still nowhere near as good as some of the other 9th level powers.

@Deuxhero: I've been putting off doing archetypes specifically because I've been unable to find the False Focus feat on any of the reference sites I know of. What exactly does it do? Oh, and the Sage bloodline is good because it's mostly the Arcane bloodline, which is good. I'm not thinking too hard about multiclass characters.

@harmor: Oh neat!

[deuxhero]

It lets you replace any material components of a value equal to or less than your holy symbol (max 100GP). I don't know why it is missing from the SRDs either. Depending on your GM, you may or may not need to use the magic item focuses from Gods and Magic, Reliquary Weapon/Mithril Buckler, Channel Foci or potentially worship a god with a holy symbol that may have an abnormal cost (Chaldira Zuzaristan for instance), to get the full value (as there are no explicit rules to get a holy symbol worth more otherwise)

It also makes Communal Stone Skin on a single target free

Also of note is this comment by Sean K Reynolds

In reference to Sage, he says "there may be a way for a non-sorcerer to gain access to that bloodline power". I infer from this (due to both referring to it as a bloodline power and the mention of a non sorcerer getting it) Wildblooded are legal to take with Eldritch Heritage.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Dazaras wrote:

@Douglas Muir: That would be an incredibly annoying NPC. I can also see a character looking to max out bluff taking a sorcerer dip for the Silver Tongue power (or getting it via Eldritch Heritage). I didn't really write this guide with those characters in mind, but I can make a note of it anyway.

There's a rogue archetype power, 1st or 2nd level, that goes something like "if the target believes your first lie, they get -2 against believing subsequent lies for the rest of that day" or some such. That's nice and very gamable. And then there's the rogue talent Convincing Lies: "those who believe your lies use your Bluff skill when repeating the lies." That one is VERY gamable. As noted, a rak blood sorceror should have little difficulty getting Bluff up over 20 by 6th level and over 30 by 10th. So, under the RAW it's totally plausible that you could get everyone in a good-sized city convinced that you're the Chosen One of Abadar, the missing heir to the throne, or at least a really trustworthy investment counselor.

As you say, you didn't write the guide with multiclassed NPCs in mind. But yes, you can have a lot of fun with that one.

Dazaras wrote:

I have trouble seeing a case where a continuous tongues spell would be helpful. If you're dealing with creatures who don't appreciate a lantern archon intermediary, you could always pick up the actual tongues spell and have it available whenever you need it.

You're filling one of your precious spells-known slots with a specialized utility spell, then burning a third level spell to cast it. Once cast, it has a fixed duration, is vulnerable to dispelling and antimagic, and lets you speak only one language per casting. Also, if you're in the middle of combat and the enemy boss starts yelling instructions to his minions in Old Thassilonian, you don't want to step out of the battle for a round to cast Tongues.

Doug M.

[Fromper]

I'm with Doug on this one. Being able to speak and understand any language at any time is a GREAT ability.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Just for the heck of it, I sketched out an annoying rak sorceror NPC over here. Two versions of the same guy -- 4th level as an opponent for low level PCs, and 10th level as an opponent for anyone.

By 10th level, a rak bloodline sorceror can get Bluff up to +40 without too much trouble. Dip a couple of levels of rogue and combine that with some of the lie-enhancing Rogue talents like Convincing Lie and Rumormonger, and you can get some pretty crazy synergies.

Doug M.

[Dazaras]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Dazaras wrote:

I have trouble seeing a case where a continuous tongues spell would be helpful. If you're dealing with creatures who don't appreciate a lantern archon intermediary, you could always pick up the actual tongues spell and have it available whenever you need it.

You're filling one of your precious spells-known slots with a specialized utility spell, then burning a third level spell to cast it. Once cast, it has a fixed duration, is vulnerable to dispelling and antimagic, and lets you speak only one language per casting. Also, if you're in the middle of combat and the enemy boss starts yelling instructions to his minions in Old Thassilonian, you don't want to step out of the battle for a round to cast Tongues.

Doug M.

I see what you mean, but rather than convince me to increase the rating of Perfect Voice, you've convinced me to increase the rating of Tongues. I don't think Tongues is a very good spell for sorcerers, and I've rated it accordingly in my spells guide. However, I've never seen the duration of the spell be a limiting factor (it has a reasonably good duration), nor have I ever seen it dispelled. I never expect antimagic fields to be a problem, but in the event that they are I'd like to point out that they also block Perfect Voice, which is a supernatural ability. I wouldn't recommend getting Tongues on your average sorcerer, but if you're looking at Perfect Voice I'd say it's worth a 3rd level spell known more than Perfect Voice is worth a 9th level bloodline power, mostly due to the latter being attached to such an otherwise bad bloodline.

I believe you are misinterpreting the Tongues spell. It allows you to speak only one language at a time, but it need not be the same language every time you speak. Perfect Voice does not have this caveat, but unless you often give speeches to large crowds of mixed cultures it won't be a problem.

Lastly, yes it's a bad idea to cast Tongues in combat just to hear your enemies orders. Generally the enemy tactics will not be significantly changed if you can understand them. If intelligent enemies are aware of impending battle, they'll probably already have tactics set up anyway. If you're ambushing the targets, you can cast whatever you want ahead of time(such as summoning one or more Lantern Archons to translate enemy speech, which is often a better choice than tongues). I can certainly imagine situations in which it would be helpful, but not enough to change my rating of the power.

I play in Eberron, and there aren't that many languages. Maybe this is different in other settings.

[Sir Dante]

Will you be including your opinion on the sorcerer archetypes?
Or am I just missing it?

EDIT: Also will you be including any build examples of different types of sorcerers, blasters etc.

[Dazaras]

Well, I still can't find the False Focus feat anywhere, but I'll go ahead and rate archetypes anyway. I'll make a note that I haven't found the feat and am relying on other people's descriptions of it.

I hadn't thought of making example builds, but I wouldn't be averse to it if you think that would add to the guide? I know I would rather make my own build based on the suggestions and commentary of others rather than copy even part of someone else's build, but I wouldn't assume other people have this same preference.

[Sir Dante]

Dazaras wrote:

Well, I still can't find the False Focus feat anywhere, but I'll go ahead and rate archetypes anyway. I'll make a note that I haven't found the feat and am relying on other people's descriptions of it.

I hadn't thought of making example builds, but I wouldn't be averse to it if you think that would add to the guide? I know I would rather make my own build based on the suggestions and commentary of others rather than copy even part of someone else's build, but I wouldn't assume other people have this same preference.

Thank you very much! :) you could also do like in tark's big holy cleric guide (name goes on), add a file like this where anyone can add their builds, so you would have your own and let readers add their builds if they have such.

link to tarks open document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/179qGjYvVrEEZJIafdA8Ppeth5fnaHf-JzQobYND eUG8/edit?hl=en_US

[Lochmonster]

Is there any reason you don't recommend the Shadow Gambit Feat for the trickster Godling/Illusionist type Sorcerer? It seems much more useful than Threatening Illusion.

Also thanks for a great guide! I used it a lot when making my Sorcerer!

[VRMH]

Dazaras wrote:

Well, I still can't find the False Focus feat anywhere

It's from Inner Sea Magic, or online here.

[Dazaras]

Lochmonster wrote:

Is there any reason you don't recommend the Shadow Gambit Feat for the trickster Godling/Illusionist type Sorcerer? It seems much more useful than Threatening Illusion.

Also thanks for a great guide! I used it a lot when making my Sorcerer!

Yes, there is a very good reason. It's because I don't own Inner Sea Magic and the last time I updated the guide those feats weren't on any online resource. I couldn't find them.

Thanks, I'll update with more Inner Sea stuff when I have time.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Thank you a lot for your guide! I think it's the best sorcerer guide for PF as of now.

One big question others probably have too:
What do you think is the most optimal (in a min/max sense) choice for school power?

I thought about evocation and transmutation.

Evocation with dazing spell effects almost all monsters and targets reflex. But other then that, there are no really good fort or will targeting spells (except for maybe clenched fist), so no variety.

Transmutation can target all saves with good sorcerer spells. But it lacks the individual power of a perfected, persistent, dazing ball lightning forcing two reflex saves at DC 25+cha on metal armored foes each round.

[edit]forgot about scirocco for evocation

[Dazaras]

SpoCk0nd0pe wrote:

Thank you a lot for your guide! I think it's the best sorcerer guide for PF as of now.

One big question others probably have too:
What do you think is the most optimal (in a min/max sense) choice for school power?

I thought about evocation and transmutation.

Evocation with dazing spell effects almost all monsters and targets reflex. But other then that, there are no really good fort or will targeting spells (except for maybe clenched fist), so no variety.

Transmutation can target all saves with good sorcerer spells. But it lacks the individual power of a perfected, persistent, dazing ball lightning forcing two reflex saves at DC 25+cha on metal armored foes each round.

[edit]forgot about scirocco for evocation

Thanks a lot!

Your choice of school for School Power depends a lot on your sorcerer's style. If you're a controller then pick whichever school you rely on most for control, like conjuration. If you're primarily a blaster you'll want to pick evocation for the reasons you mention (namely, dazing spell). Schools like enchantment suddenly become better if you apply School Power to them due to increased reliability. If you're trying to narrow down your options, you can cross off some schools pretty easily, like divination and abjuration, for not having that many saves. I don't see transmutation being a good choice here for the same reason.

I hope this helps!

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

About the transmutation thing: Just thought that at level 15 there are some nice transmutation spells for the sorcerer that allow saves: Reverse Gravity, Polymorph any Object, Slow, Baleful Polymorph, Flesh to Stone, dazing Snapdragon Fireworks, Telekinesis, Disintegrate and maybe Transmute Rock to Mud/Mud to Rock.
Those target all different saves while being versatile spells that mostly don't have issues with immunities. So I thought this would be a good choice.

[tlotig]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Dazaras wrote:

I missed the second half of nondetection, which does make the Hide Aura power quite a bit better. I'll change that, I think it should be at least orange. SR against divinations still isn't very good, especially since the rest of your party probably lacks similar protection.

This sort of thing is why I think the rak bloodline is better for building NPCs. Often, incredibly annoying NPCs. A single invisible character who can't be found with Detect Invisible (or any other detection or divination spell),

Doug M.

See invisible targets the caster. SR wont help against it any more that creatures with SR ignore mage armour

[Dazaras]

SpoCk0nd0pe wrote:

About the transmutation thing: Just thought that at level 15 there are some nice transmutation spells for the sorcerer that allow saves: Reverse Gravity, Polymorph any Object, Slow, Baleful Polymorph, Flesh to Stone, dazing Snapdragon Fireworks, Telekinesis, Disintegrate and maybe Transmute Rock to Mud/Mud to Rock.

Those target all different saves while being versatile spells that mostly don't have issues with immunities. So I thought this would be a good choice.

Sure, there are a few. If you plan on using those spells a lot then go for it.

tlotig wrote:

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

Dazaras wrote:

I missed the second half of nondetection, which does make the Hide Aura power quite a bit better. I'll change that, I think it should be at least orange. SR against divinations still isn't very good, especially since the rest of your party probably lacks similar protection.

This sort of thing is why I think the rak bloodline is better for building NPCs. Often, incredibly annoying NPCs. A single invisible character who can't be found with Detect Invisible (or any other detection or divination spell),

Doug M.

See invisible targets the caster. SR wont help against it any more that creatures with SR ignore mage armour

Nondetection doesn't literally give you spell resistance. It says that creatures must make a caster level check to detect you with divination spells. The spell text is a little ambiguous actually, and I'm unclear on whether it applies to all divination spells or not.

[DRedSand]

What no love from craft staffs? I know normally they're not great, but you've been pushing the arcane bloodline rather heavily and for arcane sorcerers staffs are amazing. Give a level 16 sorcerer of the arcane bloodline a robe of arcane heritage and he can use three levels of spell slots in place of spending a charge, staffs are essentially extra spells known.

[DRedSand]

As to the spell list, I think spectral hand should at least be put on it, it's an amazing spell, some of the things can do with it, such as combining it with force punch, are just neat.

[Peter Stewart]

Something that jumped out at me on your spells guide - you cite circle of death again and again. You do realize it cannot affect a creature with more than 9 hit dice, right?

You also suggest combining an armored kilt with bracers of armor. You realize only one of them can be active at a time, right?

[Cheapy]

Since you were wondering why Runestones of Power are twice the cost of pearls of power, it's mainly due to RoP not requiring a standard action to fill again. If you need to cast fireball twice in a row, you can do that easily with a RoP. If you were a prepared caster, you'd need to cast fireball, use a standard action to refill the spell slot using your PoP, and then cast it again. Put another way, Pearls help prepared casters regain spells between encounters, and runestones help them regain them during encounters.

[Dazaras]

Wow, lots of posts since I last checked. Ok, where to start?

DRedSand wrote:

What no love from craft staffs? I know normally they're not great, but you've been pushing the arcane bloodline rather heavily and for arcane sorcerers staffs are amazing. Give a level 16 sorcerer of the arcane bloodline a robe of arcane heritage and he can use three levels of spell slots in place of spending a charge, staffs are essentially extra spells known.

I respectfully disagree, crafting staffs is terrible for sorcerers because you have to know the spell that you want to craft, which defeats the point of having the staff. You're far better off paying a wizard to do it.

DRedSand wrote:

As to the spell list, I think spectral hand should at least be put on it, it's an amazing spell, some of the things can do with it, such as combining it with force punch, are just neat.

The thing is, I just don't like melee touch attacks that much. Even with the spectral hand, they're still keyed off strength. I feel like you need to build specifically for melee touch attacks to get any mileage out of them, and they're still not that good. So there's that. Plus as far as I'm concerned any combo that takes two turns and two spell slots to pull off had better be a hell of a lot better than a ranged force punch. EDIT: might I recommend the Reach Spell metamagic feat?

Peter Stewart wrote:

Something that jumped out at me on your spells guide - you cite circle of death again and again. You do realize it cannot affect a creature with more than 9 hit dice, right?

You also suggest combining an armored kilt with bracers of armor. You realize only one of them can be active at a time, right?

Oh crap! I completely missed that line in Circle of Death! That's terrible! I hereby revoke all recommendations of that spell.

I see. I was thinking that you could use the bracers for the armor bonus and the armor for the other enhancements, but I see that it is specifically called out in the bracers description that it won't work. That is unfortunate.

Cheapy wrote:

Since you were wondering why Runestones of Power are twice the cost of pearls of power, it's mainly due to RoP not requiring a standard action to fill again. If you need to cast fireball twice in a row, you can do that easily with a RoP. If you were a prepared caster, you'd need to cast fireball, use a standard action to refill the spell slot using your PoP, and then cast it again. Put another way, Pearls help prepared casters regain spells between encounters, and runestones help them regain them during encounters.

Yeah, I noticed that. I still don't think it's worth the price increase. I would much rather restore twice as many spells between combats than cast extra spells in combat.

[Thaago]

How do you feel about the arcane bloodline for low-mid level (1-10) campaigns? Maybe I'm just confused, but I'm seeing it as a distinctly inferior option.

The bond is great. But the arcana and 3rd level ability I would classify as red before level 6: you're upper level slots are much more valuable as upper level spells than boosted lower ones... and you probably don't know more than 1 metamagic feat. And at levels 1-3 they are completely useless because you can't even cast any metamagic spells other than cantrips. At 10th level they both become a lot better as you can start doing things to level 3/4 spells. The 9th level ability is very good for non-human casters, but for a human its a wasted ability. Certainly not bad, but they already have lots of extra spells for the cost of toughness.

I read the bloodline as an upper level powerhouse (fantastic lvl 15, 20, the arcana gets good) but as an orange for levels 1-10.

[PSusac]

The Preferred Spell feat lets you spontaneously add metamagic to the spell in question without increasing casting time.

I figure certain builds could use this, but didn't see it in your guide.

[bfobar]

PSusac wrote:

The Preferred Spell feat lets you spontaneously add metamagic to the spell in question without increasing casting time.

I figure certain builds could use this, but didn't see it in your guide.

Spontaneous Metafocus does the same thing to one spell but has looser requirements (cha 13, any one metamagic vs spellcraft 5 ranks and heighten spell for preferred spell).

[Thaliak]

Thanks for the enjoyable guide. I liked your comments on bloodlines as well, but I must admit I'm disappointed to find that the Arcane bloodline is stronger than most of the others in many situations. I love the bloodline, but some of the others have stronger flavor.

In any case, I'd like to make three suggestions for this guide:
1. Consider recommending the Sorcerer's Robe from Ultimate Equipment Guide for low-level games. Here is the description:

Quote:

This dapper robe enables a sorcerer to add the effects of her 1st-level bloodline power to spells she casts. As a swift action before casting a spell, the wearer expends one use of her 1st-level bloodline power and selects one target of the spell to be affected by that bloodline power. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save against the spell means the bloodline power deals half damage (if it normally deals hit point damage) or is negated (if it does not). The robe can be used up to three times per day.

I doubt this is as powerful as the Robe of Arcane Heritage for most builds, but it only costs 5,000, so it might be available in low level games. It should also boost the effectiveness of some of the cooler low level powers, like the Fey Bloodline's one-round daze.

2. In your recommendations for the Hands Slot, you mention having two gloves of storing. Unfortunately, players can only use one. The PRD states, "A glove of storing uses up your entire hands slot. You may not use another item (even another glove of storing) that also uses the hands slot." Please change "one or two gloves of storing" to "a glove of storing."

3. In your comments on Merciful Spell, you say combining it with Magical Lineage will allow the player to cast the chosen spell at a lower level, then note how cheesy this is. The FAQ forbids this trick, so if you mention it at all, you should point out that it's illegal.

[Dazaras]

Thaago wrote:

How do you feel about the arcane bloodline for low-mid level (1-10) campaigns? Maybe I'm just confused, but I'm seeing it as a distinctly inferior option. ...

You make a very good point about metamagic not being useful at lower levels. The rating for the Arcane bloodline is based on how it performs across a range of levels, but if you know that you're not going to get above level 5 then perhaps you could find a better choice. Perhaps I should go through and re-evaluate some things. The overall rating for the bloodline is unlikely to change, even without the arcana the bloodline spells alone earn it at least a green rating.

Thaliak wrote:

Thanks for the enjoyable guide. I liked your comments on bloodlines as well, but I must admit I'm disappointed to find that the Arcane bloodline is stronger than most of the others in many situations. I love the bloodline, but some of the others have stronger flavor.

In any case, I'd like to make three suggestions for this guide...

Thanks! I could not agree more. I was very disappointed with most of the bloodlines. I wish they were a little more evenly matched.

Those are all very good suggestions. I'm adding them to the guide now. I was aware that you could only wear one glove at a time, but it seems I forgot to update the guide. I'm glad they clarified that gimmick with Magical Lineage, thanks for pointing that out. I've never allowed it in my games anyway.

[evilash]

Thaliak wrote:

In any case, I'd like to make three suggestions for this guide:

1. Consider recommending the Sorcerer's Robe from Ultimate Equipment Guide for low-level games. Here is the description:

Quote:

This dapper robe enables a sorcerer to add the effects of her 1st-level bloodline power to spells she casts. As a swift action before casting a spell, the wearer expends one use of her 1st-level bloodline power and selects one target of the spell to be affected by that bloodline power. If the spell allows a saving throw, a successful save against the spell means the bloodline power deals half damage (if it normally deals hit point damage) or is negated (if it does not). The robe can be used up to three times per day.

I actually think that Mnemonic Vestment is a better choice. The versality it adds to the sorcerer also makes it a good candidate as a secondary power for Robe of Arcane Heritage.

[JimDA1]

In terms of armor that won't cause ASF, there is one other exception I found, but requires a 2 level dip into Soulknife using the Mind Armaments ACF. The Light Armor from it can be enhanced with the 2nd level class feature selection 'Improved Armor' to be treated 'as if not wearing any armor'. Dunno if I quoted this all by verbatim, but point is it's +4 AC able to be worn basically at all times and not suffer ASF. Sure it is a 2 level dip, but arguably well worth it.

This also has the perk of being able to sleep in said armor (Since you're treated as if not wearing it, no exhaustion penalties to concern one's self with) which can be useful if ambushed. It's possible to use this to give AC a really nice bump (Using Tattooed Monk's ACF and Draconic Bloodline along with this, looking at an easy +6 AC without ASF whatsoever. Nab up Shield and enjoy a net +10 AC and immunities to Magic Missile. Granted takes 5 levels in all in investment).

Soulknife is not tough to get GMs to approve since it's more melee focused than Psionic-focused (pardon the pun) so worth the effort IMO. Not to mention it's not too hard to use the same 2 levels to be able to emulate the natural weapons of a dragon, beautiful for those wanting some draconian themed character (Gauntlets with the slashing attribute = mind claws :3).

[LazarX]

deuxhero wrote:

It lets you replace any material components of a value equal to or less than your holy symbol (max 100GP). I don't know why it is missing from the SRDs either.

Many of the Golarion-setting specific feats, (of which False Focus is one since it's was invented by the Razmir cult) aren't going to be found on the Paizo SRD and other SRD type sites, because they are not Open Content.

[strayshift]

Possibly I'd add a brief discussion about the advantages of spontaneous casting vs prepared casting: highlighting the ability to situationally get the best out of metamagic and to be able to spam spells/use higher level spells slots for spells in an emergency set against a more limited spell selection. This means your spell choices are your most important decision (also relates to bloodline and your role in the party) and that in turn impacts on your choice of feats quite often (and again bloodline). In short there is a strategy to building an effective sorcerer.

[Mythraine]

Am I crazy or is BLUR missing from 2nd levels spells in your spell guide?

I've always rated it highly and I couldn't find any rating in your guide for it.

[Anzyr]

Ok, Razmiran Priest doesn't just need to be blue. It needs to be Purple. It's not just the best Sorcerer Archetype. It's the best Sorcerer Archetype by a mile and a landslide.

Just a few notes:

Combining False Focus with a Holy Symbol, Tattoo gets you the full 100 gp benefit of the feat with no risk of sunder or disarm. It is literally (and exactly) 100x better then Eschew Materials.

False Channel does the following:

1. Effectively adds all divine spells to the Sorcerers spell list at +1 spell level. Not just Cleric spells, *all* divine spells for a small fee. Even discounting single charge wands, this is a super cheap way to expand to your spell list.

2. Lets you cast spells with costly material components for free after a 1 time investment. For example, get a Permanency Scroll made by a Shaman (thanks Arcane Enlightenment) and your 6th level spell slots are now cost free Permanency.

3. You can get the divine spells off the lowest list possible and then cast certain spells at the same level (or even sooner) then a Divine Caster of your level. Were I more motivated, I'd make a guide so these Sorcerers could be casting stuff like Greater Angelic Aspect out of their 5th level slots, while Clerics cry about not having access to it for 5 more levels.

Deserves it's own purple ranking.

There should probably be a discussion on Sage wildblooded Archetype, since it makes Sorcerer's incredible skill users.

[Yargoyle AKA Endarire]

Half-Elves can now get the Human Favored Class bonuses and paragon surge. Just be a Half-Elf Sorcerer/Sorceress, assuming you can get both.

[darrenan]

How did you come to this conclusion:

Quote:

Craft Rod: Good for making metamagic rods, which you’ll want. You’ll especially appreciate this feat if you’re interested in the more expensive rods, like Quicken. Unlike in 3.5, you don’t need to have the respective feat to make a metamagic rod, which makes this feat worth taking.

I spot-checked a few different metamagic rods and they all list the feat as a requirement. Is it that YOU don't have to have the feat, you just need to find someone that does?

[ryric]

darrenan wrote:

How did you come to this conclusion:

Quote:

Craft Rod: Good for making metamagic rods, which you’ll want. You’ll especially appreciate this feat if you’re interested in the more expensive rods, like Quicken. Unlike in 3.5, you don’t need to have the respective feat to make a metamagic rod, which makes this feat worth taking.

I spot-checked a few different metamagic rods and they all list the feat as a requirement. Is it that YOU don't have to have the feat, you just need to find someone that does?

For crafting magic items, any prerequisite beside the crafting feat itself can be ignored by taking a +5 to the craft DC. (except spell requirements for spell trigger, spell completion, and potions)