Kensai Magus / Monk


Rules Questions

Scarab Sages

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Kensai a magus archetype from ultimate combat, multiclassed with a monk so that I can add my INT to AC as well as dex+wis.

What do you think? It should be legal for PFS Organized Play...right?
And take weapon finesse and use that to make touch spells.

I can be the untouchable combat god of touch spells!


You could do it but it would be very MAD.


Better to drop monk and tank wis, so you get better dex/int imho. Get potions of mage armor, cast shield every now and then. Wis is worthless for a magus, and should be a dump stat.

If you have no dump stats, you will barely get like 14 in the three stats you want, and have the same AC as if you went pure magus and put 16 in int/dex.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

If you were able to rol lstats and get 3 or 4 really good ones, this would be a great idea. On a 15 pt buy, not so much.

Sovereign Court

It's one of the more interesting ways to get a very high armour class without actually wearing armour. Think the build I came up for it had something like a 29 without buffs up on it. It is a very VERY feat dependent build however so it takes a bit of surviving, which for the Pathfinder Society isn't usually too bad so long as your still useful.

Works great as a dervish scimitar build plus master of many styles. You don't need strength and can have a passable wisdom score. Go elf for the important dex/int stats.

Scarab Sages

Well regardless of the AC bump, the Monk dip makes it easy to take Crane Style.

There is a pair in my PFS group that have Dex based fighters. They have a level dip in Monk to facilitate Crane Style and Crane Wing as well as a Level of Magus so they can cast Shield as part of a full round action. With a couple of Pearls of Power they can have Shield up Every Combat. They are about 7th level at the moment and I think their AC is about 36, and can deflect one attack each round.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Vixeryz wrote:

Kensai a magus archetype from ultimate combat, multiclassed with a monk so that I can add my INT to AC as well as dex+wis.

What do you think? It should be legal for PFS Organized Play...right?
And take weapon finesse and use that to make touch spells.

I can be the untouchable combat god of touch spells!

Do the actual workout. You'll probably find that you're not as untouchable as you think. Going that route also means a different stat allocation. Account for that as well.

Grand Lodge

That seems crazy MAD. Good luck to you.

Scarab Sages

Kamelguru wrote:

Better to drop monk and tank wis, so you get better dex/int imho. Get potions of mage armor, cast shield every now and then. Wis is worthless for a magus, and should be a dump stat.

If you have no dump stats, you will barely get like 14 in the three stats you want, and have the same AC as if you went pure magus and put 16 in int/dex.

Str 10 Dex 17 Con 8 Int 17 Wis 16 Cha 7 (Race:Elf)

PFS uses a 20 pt build not 15

[23] AC= 10+ 3(dex)+3(int)+3(wis) +4 (casts mage armor)
Were I to dump wisdom...

Str 12 Dex 18 Con 8 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 10
[22]AC= 10+ 4dex +4int +4 mage armor

But I was thinking that I could cast shocking grasp in one round and flurry of shocking blows next round.

But- most things below level 12 (which is PFS level cap) cant hit AC 20 or higher unless they crit... So either they miss or I'm boned.

I'd wear a chain shirt instead of mage armor but I think that the "canny" ability of the kensai says you can only add your int when not wearing armor? (The monk doesnt let you wear any armor if you wanna add your Wis)

And I'm not gonna waste money on potions of mage armor... I'd rather save up for...bracers of mage armor or a ring or something so it doesnt count as wearing armor


Vixeryz wrote:


But- most things below level 12 (which is PFS level cap) cant hit AC 20 or higher unless they crit... So either they miss or I'm boned.

CR 10 monster has average TH of 18.

Scarab Sages

Vixeryz wrote:


But- most things below level 12 (which is PFS level cap) cant hit AC 20 or higher unless they crit... So either they miss or I'm boned.

I am routinely hit with a 21 AC ... in level 1-2 adventures.

Last game I was one rounded when 4 separate attackers rolled to hit AC 23 - 25. None of them crit.

Next game I'll have an AC of 23 and am still considering devoting a second spell slot to defense, raising my AC to 26.

If it helps, critical hits still need to be confirmed. With a high AC that means two 20's are needed before you are boned.

Sovereign Court

Did you perhaps mean to say AC 30 or higher?

Scarab Sages

Baldman and Art- was this in PFS Organized Play? how do they have such a high TH modifier? (before die rolls)

All I can think is mobs with either 20 Str or Dex and racial bonuses to attack. Do they have magic weapons or something?

Also- your DM must have lucky dice to regularly score 20+ in Tier 1 scenarios...

My halfling characters have 18 AC and rarely get hit. (which is lucky, because they only have 8 & 10 hp and I've seen level 1 mobs hit for 10+ hp)

Btw Morgan, I did actually mean AC 20; and Baldman, CR 10 mobs with 18 TH would probly hit my halflings but wouldnt hit a 23 AC as much- also add to that, the fact that I could afford bracers of Mage Armor by level 10 and possibly something to give me natural armor. Then I could save my spellcasting for a shield spell, or something with a deflection bonus...

and theres always Cat's Grace, Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom. That would give me another +6 to AC if I used all 3 stats.


Not organized play. I have a monster database that I downloaded from d20pfsrd.com. The average Melee TH @ CR 10 is +18.

We may be missing each other here. If you are talking level 1 or level 2 then 20 ac is good. If you are talking about the upper end of PFS play level 20 means their tertiary attack might still hit.


Vixeryz wrote:
Kamelguru wrote:

Better to drop monk and tank wis, so you get better dex/int imho. Get potions of mage armor, cast shield every now and then. Wis is worthless for a magus, and should be a dump stat.

If you have no dump stats, you will barely get like 14 in the three stats you want, and have the same AC as if you went pure magus and put 16 in int/dex.

Str 10 Dex 17 Con 8 Int 17 Wis 16 Cha 7 (Race:Elf)

PFS uses a 20 pt build not 15

[23] AC= 10+ 3(dex)+3(int)+3(wis) +4 (casts mage armor)
Were I to dump wisdom...

Str 12 Dex 18 Con 8 Int 18 Wis 8 Cha 10
[22]AC= 10+ 4dex +4int +4 mage armor

But I was thinking that I could cast shocking grasp in one round and flurry of shocking blows next round.

But- most things below level 12 (which is PFS level cap) cant hit AC 20 or higher unless they crit... So either they miss or I'm boned.

I'd wear a chain shirt instead of mage armor but I think that the "canny" ability of the kensai says you can only add your int when not wearing armor? (The monk doesnt let you wear any armor if you wanna add your Wis)

And I'm not gonna waste money on potions of mage armor... I'd rather save up for...bracers of mage armor or a ring or something so it doesnt count as wearing armor

1) Con 8? Really? You think Con 8 makes for a viable anything?

2) Magus does not have Mage Armor on his spell list, thus the potions.

3) The cheapest AC boosting item is 1000gp, and it gives +1 armor. Bracers that "copy" mage armor is 16000. A potion is 50gp a pop.

4) Even with finesse, you'd be stuck at +1/+1 to hit until level 3 with the monk/magus build.

5) You have to survive LV1 where you do not get either wis or int to AC, meaning 16ish, which is not particularily good for a melee character. And with con 8...

6) Anything that strikes you flat-footed is gonna hit you, and your Con 8

7) When you pose no threat with your close to nonexistent damage output due to having awful to-ht, what motivation does enemies have to strike you, instead of another party member?

8) There are lots of ways to hurt you without having to deal with your AC. Again; Con 8? Seriously?


Vixeryz wrote:

how do they have such a high TH modifier? (before die rolls)

All I can think is mobs with either 20 Str or Dex and racial bonuses to attack. Do they have magic weapons or something?

Flanking, buffs, higher ground, magical items, masterwork weapons, striking from stealth etc etc. Lots of ways to raise to-hit.

Quote:

I could save my spellcasting for a shield spell, or something with a deflection bonus...

and theres always Cat's Grace, Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom. That would give me another +6 to AC if I used all 3 stats.

Even if the Magus had Fox's Cunning and Owl's Wisdom (which it does not) by the time you were done, the fight would be mostly over, for good or bad.

Relying on multiple solo-buffs is rarely a good idea. Also, to my knowledge, the Magus has no spells that offer deflection bonuses. Have to rely on a friendly cleric or wizard for that.


I've been trying to design a monk/magus or a cestus kensai out, to get access to metamagic rods with spell combat, without extra limb craziness.

Monk/magus's arcane pool mitigates a little of the AoMF downside. The lack of crit range, though, led me to hexcrafter magus with just 2 levels of monk (3rd added only when monastic legacy will up the unarmed damage).
Hex Strike with Slumber or Misfortune, Accursed Hex, Stunning Fist, Frigid Touch and Frostbite; he's a living debuff, with survivability and non-negligible damage growing in as he levels.

Don't know if you even could flurry with spell combat, as spell combat doesn't say you get your full attack, just that you get to take all your attacks, and I didn't want another -2, so MoMS for early Snake or Crane, adding the 1st Boar later to get slashing damage.

Int & Wis are not as high as I like, but he has enough to get by if he can target the weak saves accurately.

Still messing around with him, but currently thinking human S:11,D:15+2,C:12,I:15,W:15,Ch:7. 1st level will still be extra challenging, though, just like all finessers.

Scarab Sages

Sorry for the confusion- I was talking about 2 different builds here. One was (transmute spec)Wizard/Monk (hence the mage armor and other stat boosting TRANSMUTATION spells)

The other build was kensai magus/monk. The magus/monk wouldnt need mage armor because she would be wearing a chain shirt at level 1 (MAGUS).

Monks DO get the wisdom to AC at 1st level in PATHFINDER I dunno what that guy was smoking...

And the reason con is a dump stat is because...If you dont get hit, that extra plus one or 2 isnt gonna make a difference. and if I cared...I could take toughness to make up for it. (probly not gonna tho)

I would wait to multiclass in monk until AFTER I got the ability to add my INT to AC, so that I could lose the chain shirt without a care.

BTW baldman, there is no level 20 in PFSOP, the level cap is 12. (or 13 for special events at conventions)

I also forgot about the Shield spell which would raise my AC even higher...
so, as a transmute spec wizard (level 1) magus (level 2)/monk (level 1) +4 dex +4wis +3 int +4 shield spell +4 mage armor= 29 AC
(+1 dex for wizard transmute school ability, +1 wis for level 4 boost)


I built this... Was a masterpiece. I got crap from the solo class monk in the party though. Miss the dude. Psycho.

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