Last night in our session the Druid decided to cast purify food and water on her rum ration. looking at the spell it says it makes poisonsous drink pure and drinkable. As alchol is a poison (in large amounts and the rum is strong stuff) we all agreed that this would be feasable, as water is used in the process of making Rum. the ruling was that the cup of rum turned into Sugary water instead, I guessing this would just be similar and easier than tipping the rum ration away when no-one was looking, and I see no problem with it.
Just wondered if everybody agreed or wether there was a ruling somewhere about this?
A common mistake about Rum and Wine in pre-modern days. They were very watered down. Shipboard rum is not 'rum' as we know it today. It was water mixed with enough alcohol to keep it safe for drinking. Throughout much of history wine is exactly the same. The Romans (who drank nothing but watered down wine) considered drinking full wine (like we drink it today) to be socially unacceptable behavior.
That isnt to say that sailors didnt drink rum straight. They did. Im just saying that she could have watered it down and been just fine. :)
- Gauss
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Last night in our session the Druid decided to cast purify food and water on her rum ration. looking at the spell it says it makes poisonsous drink pure and drinkable. As alchol is a poison (in large amounts and the rum is strong stuff) we all agreed that this would be feasable, as water is used in the process of making Rum. the ruling was that the cup of rum turned into Sugary water instead, I guessing this would just be similar and easier than tipping the rum ration away when no-one was looking, and I see no problem with it.
Just wondered if everybody agreed or whether there was a ruling somewhere about this?
Sounds like a good ruling to me. I would rule that it removes the alcoholic content, of course if Mr Plugg or Master Scourge catches you they'd probably react in the same way as if you were caught tossing your rum ration. Lashings!
They WANT the crew drunk and pliable.
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A common mistake about Rum and Wine in pre-modern days. They were very watered down. Shipboard rum is not 'rum' as we know it today. It was water mixed with enough alcohol to keep it safe for drinking. Throughout much of history wine is exactly the same. The Romans (who drank nothing but watered down wine) considered drinking full wine (like we drink it today) to be socially unacceptable behavior.
Rum was watered down by the British Royal Navy because they did not want their sailors totally inebriated. Pirates used Grog, which would spoil after a while because the ship captains did not want the "common seamen" to hoard their rum...
Roman wine is often said to have had a very high alcohol content (higher than it is today), so they would water it down. The Roman elite often used liquid mercury as the "watering agent" because it also "sweetened" the wine, while the poor were given wine mixed with wine that had nearly turned to vinegar...
But these practices were like us today making a mixed drink; it simply lowers the alcohol content by volume, and makes what alcohol you have "stocked up" last longer (stretches it out as it were)...
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As alchol is a poison (in large amounts and the rum is strong stuff)
To call alcohol a true poison, you would also have to call salt, water, oxygen, and even aspirin true poisons as well...
It is true that if enough of these are ingested, you will die (but this is true with anything)...
So why single out alcohol??
I would have ruled against it being "purified" because it is the amount of a substance like this and NOT the substance itself; because remember, if one drinks too much water it too becomes a poison (and no-one seems to ever call water a poison), but I seem to be in the minority with this...
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The difference is "too much".
Drink a 16 oz glass of clean pure water. You may pee in awhile, but no negative problems.
Drink a 16 oz glass if nice pure rum.
yeah.
Poison.
It hurts the kidneys (i think?) and know it hurts the liver. The only saving grace is that the liver can regenerate the damage- as long as you aren't a life long hard drinker you will probably end up ok.
You can be a life long hard water drinker and just end up with well-working kidneys and frequent trips to the rest room :)
(not hard water.. but a frequent drinker of the good stuff!)
-S
Rum was watered down by the British Royal Navy because they did not want their sailors totally inebriated. Pirates used Grog, which would spoil after a while because the ship captains did not want the "common seamen" to hoard their rum...
Grog is just... watered down rum. (and "Monkey Island" is wrong^^)
Royal Navy in the Carribean started the practise in the early 18th century und Lord Admiral Vernon, instead of handing out beer/wine/cheap brandy crew got half a pint of rum, at 60-80%.... much easier to buy rum among theislands than wine or beer.Stuff got watered down roughly to 3/1, so you ended up with something around 15%. Still strong enough, but incidentally, the brackish water tasted much better.
Stuff is named "grog" btw, because Admiral Vernon's nickbame was "ol'Groggum". Nowadways some sugar is added but besides... still the same stuff
No I kid you not^^
And gven the conditions sailors' worked under in those days, alcohol was actually a much needed "compensation". Just imagine standing watch on deck in fall or winter for half a night, with the wind coming in over the chilling water. Every night, that is.
I would like to point out that it is a lot harder to cast the spell and not get noticed (DC 20) rather than just ditch the rum (DC 10)
Cast, then bluff and say that you were casting a spell to chill your drink.
Would potentially work well for those more charismatic casters.
I would like to point out that it is a lot harder to cast the spell and not get noticed (DC 20) rather than just ditch the rum (DC 10)
Create an obstruction. Have everyone huddle together talking. If there is no line of sight, there is no "spot" check. Nevermind drinking the stuff slowly.
And the CON damage only occurs if one becomes addicted ( compare the GMG), hence failing the DC 5 check: normally people would only be sickened..and somehow I would consider quaffing a 60% halfpint of rum "too much". Yeah right, cancelling out the Cha bonus *facepalm*The whole rum situation : poorly thought out, especially since the entire crew would really be good for nothing much afterwards. Outsiders attack everyone while they are stupidly drunk, as the ship would now be floating/drifting. No night watch after all, right ! Or who exactly is sailing the ship after dinner ? Drunk... yeah, not so smart either.
And the CON damage only occurs if one becomes addicted ( compare the GMG), hence failing the DC 5 check: normally people would only be sickened..and somehow I would consider quaffing a 60% halfpint of rum "too much". Yeah right, cancelling out the Cha bonus *facepalm*
that would be the CON penalty (minor addiction): otherwise : sickened + Con damage
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The whole rum situation : poorly thought out, especially since the entire crew would really be good for nothing much afterwards. Outsiders attack everyone while they are stupidly drunk, as the ship would now be floating/drifting. No night watch after all, right ! Or who exactly is sailing the ship after dinner ? Drunk... yeah, not so smart either.
This was actually a problem for real life pirates. I don't have Defoe's General History of the Most Notorious Pyrates with me right this moment, but he relates several tales where pirate ships were run aground or captured because the crew was too plastered to do anything. When I get home I'll pull the specific incidents.
This was actually a problem for real life pirates. I don't have Defoe's General History of the Most Notorious Pyrates with me right this moment, but he relates several tales where pirate ships were run aground or captured because the crew was too plastered to do anything. When I get home I'll pull the specific incidents.
The whole rum situation : poorly thought out, especially since the entire crew would really be good for nothing much afterwards. Outsiders attack everyone while they are stupidly drunk, as the ship would now be floating/drifting. No night watch after all, right ! Or who exactly is sailing the ship after dinner ? Drunk... yeah, not so smart either.
that occured, yes
With the ship under anchor, in a bay, in "safe" harbours. Yes. Sails hauled it. No steerway. Even in harbours, only part of the crew could go landside
Cost Batholomew Roberts his head, too, because his people were too drunk to recognise an oncoming english warship. And Roberts actively hated the drinking on his ships
So, captains were aware of the problem, and tried to keep it in check. Never at sea. What would happen if some bad weather soared over the horizon, with everyone in their cups ? Squalls anyone ? Or drift for the night at a few knots into the closest set of reefs ?
So basically the whole rum-situation goes down the wrong path : punishment instead of pleasure, at-sea instead of at-safety and all-at-once instead of over the day.
First, I was merely pointing out the rules for the AP. A flat DC 20 to try to cast a spell without being noticed on the tiny ship full of people.Secondly, I believe you are misunderstanding how poisons and drugs work. The Con damage happens regardless of the save to see if you are addicted or not.
Yeah, I forgot that once you are addicted by the drug, things work the other way round - no penalty if drunk, bad penalty if not. And put that effect over to the "saved" side. But basically alcohol would still work on the sickening effect, cancelling out the CHA bonus, since a pint is roughly several drinks of rum.... say more like three or four.
As for the DC 20 : yeah, but do you really allow a check, if there is no visible chance/means to observe ? I am very reluctant there - and am strongly for the obstruction/concealment
Obstruction and concealment make the check pretty achievable. What's more, there's absolutely no worry of Scourge or Plugg making a Spellcraft check :p
I thought grog was tea and spiced rum...
You do not get a save against the ability damage from any drug - it happens every time you take it.
Oh right fugg underneath the "takes no damage form the addiction" it states they still take normal damage from the drug nevertheless. So you have both penalties... and basically "spring break" turns into a suicide run. Nevermind rum turning into a deadly weapon. A bottle or two, over a day and you will conveniently kill anyone for the price of 2gp.
The drug system may need some intense rework
Now that really makes you wonder how Kroop and Grok are even surviving, nevermind doing their duties.
Actually the GMG even allows for strong alchohols to be treated as drugs (there is a sidebar for it). 50%-60% rum is strong stuff , sure, it's just that you do not drink it at once in the maritime setiing. And it is actually much stronger than some DC18 drugs shown in the GMG, who only run for 1D2 CON at 50gp, with similarly beneficial effects
But since rum is normal world" stuff, players are usually unaware of it's potency "ingame", in a way mis-using real knowledge against the players
As for the minigame : that is so true for about everything in the first part of the adventure aboard. Sailing , seamanship, crew consistency... everything. Some research might have been a very good idea. Starting with the stairs aboard.
Watering it down only works because you're not drinking as much.
A cup of full wine vs a cup of mixed wine/water gets you half the wine.It doesn't matter whether you drink a cup of rum straight or mixed with 4-5 cups of water. It might taste better and you'll have to pee more, but that's about it. You'll be just as drunk. Less dehydrated later, I suppose.
Dehydration : compensating for longer time of drinking and sobering up in between should do some good. Doesn't even say "drink it all NOW" in the adventure.... only before they go to sleep. Hours later. after all, 4:1 it's now more than a full litre.
But shipboard rum, as handed out as a pint/day was 54% proof, so no chance there
Just take a page from Elizabeth Swan's book...
"But why is the rum gone?" ;P
I'd actually like a way to use some of those drugs as poisons.
Grog in particular: Con damage with no save and a boost to a stat that useless to most people in combat? Is there a poison that's better than that?
as I said : foolsafe way to kill almost anyone^^. Other campaign I play in on the weekend, I will/may try to kill a couple of Ogres that way (the GM plays in my pirate AP^^ ) with a barrel of whisky. There is also a nice injury poison (addiction DC 18-20) draining 1D2 CON at 25gp/pop.
Or, to go really absurd.... drop some lid "scour" or just opium down a hatch ( Alchemists can rig these up, according to the rules ), everyone inhaling (!)looses 1D4 or 1D6 CON, addiction saves at DC 20 or DC 24...
May... just maybe... there should be some rule for saves^^
Personally, I would rule that a "dose" of a drug isn't equivalent to a "dose" of a poison. Poison, particularly injury-poison, can cause damage with a bare coating on the edge of a blade, or less than a cc. You've got to drink a few Imperial ounces of rum, or smoke a lump of pesh the size of your thumb, to get the same effect. So coating a dagger in rum isn't going to be nearly the same thing as drinking it, and might just result in a mildly irritating burning sensation (sickened for one round on a critical hit would be my ruling.)
Rum is "ingest". Other stuff... injury (I'd say "fixing up" in a druggie fashion) or inhalation (pipe or incense). That's where "drug" + no save get's monstrous.
And if drug =/= poison, the stuff even works on otherworldy outsiders...
No.Way.