Titan Mauler of Flurry Build


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Silver Crusade

Here's a rough build I'd like some ideas on. Be really cool to dual wield greatswords!!

Human CN Barb (Titan Mauler) 2/ Cleric (Crusader) 1/ Monk (Martial Artist) 5

The Build:

STR 17, DEX 14, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHA 8
All bonuses in STR

Feats and Special Abilities
1 Human 1 __________
1 Level 1 __________
1 Barb 1 Rage, Big Game Hunter

2 Cleric 1 Aura, Channel Energy, Domain (Murder), Orison
2 Cleric 1 Weapon Focus Greatsword (Deity Gorum)

3 Monk 1 Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist
3 Monk 1 Unarmed Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike
3 Monk 1 ____________(Monk Bonus Feat)
3 Level 3 Crusader's Flurry

4 Barb 2 Rage Power, Jotungrip

At 4th Level
Standard attack: Greatsword (no jotungrip): +7 to attack, 2d6+6 damage
Standard attack: Kick: +6 to attack, 1d6+4 damage
FoB (Greatsword, Greatsword with jotungrip): +2/+2 to attack, 2d6+4/ 2d6+4 damage
FoB (Greatsword, Kick without jotungrip): +4/+4 to attack, 2d6+4/1d6+4 damage
8 rounds of rage adds +4 to STR and CON.

Continue the build with monk levels. At 8th level, he becomes immune to fatigue.

Any other design ideas welcome.


I'm horrible at optimization, but I just wanted to bump this, dot this, and say that it's awesome. I've always liked the idea of someone dual wielding two INSANELY huge weapons, anime-style. Haha.


You can't flurry of blows with a greatsword. Also, your damage is wrong. With the stats you have listed, your first attack would be 2d6+3 while your off-hand would be 2d6+1 before you factor in rage, which is only a +2 main and +1 off-hand. And good luck hitting with only a +2 at level 8! :)


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To make this the best hot-button thread, you need to add a few more levels of Paladin, as well as mention how she's actually a catfolk instead of a human.

Dark Archive

Cheapy wrote:

To make this the best hot-button thread, you need to add a few more levels of Paladin, as well as mention how she's actually a catfolk instead of a human.

Also they should make some core assumption based on funky math for a specific unique magical item they cant afford.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

By the way, and more on topic if ever so slightly. I'm starting to see why people say Archetypes are the new Prestige Classes. Gotta dip 'em all!


Roanark wrote:
You can't flurry of blows with a greatsword. Also, your damage is wrong. With the stats you have listed, your first attack would be 2d6+3 while your off-hand would be 2d6+1 before you factor in rage, which is only a +2 main and +1 off-hand. And good luck hitting with only a +2 at level 8! :)

Crusader's Flurry lets you flurry with your deity's favored weapon. Forum's favored weapon is the Greatsword.

Flurry grants full strength bonus on all attacks, so there'd be no off-hand penalty.


In. Sane.

But probably absurdly fun.

I may suggest Combat Reflexes for the Monk bonus feat, and suggest using dual-wielded polearms with reach, such as a pair of Bardiches to keep that giant blade theme going, or different polearms with different capabilities. Perhaps carry a set of different polearms to use in pairs, and begin working on the various sunder/disarm/trip feats. Get a friendly spellcaster to Enlarge Person you and lay some smack down at 15 feet of reach. Might need more Dex later for more AoOs.


Chengar Qordath wrote:
Roanark wrote:
You can't flurry of blows with a greatsword. Also, your damage is wrong. With the stats you have listed, your first attack would be 2d6+3 while your off-hand would be 2d6+1 before you factor in rage, which is only a +2 main and +1 off-hand. And good luck hitting with only a +2 at level 8! :)

Crusader's Flurry lets you flurry with your deity's favored weapon. Forum's favored weapon is the Greatsword.

Flurry grants full strength bonus on all attacks, so there'd be no off-hand penalty.

Ah, new feats. Well with those, shouldn't the FoB with GS be +3/+3 (+5 BAB, +3 Str, +1 Weapon Focus, -2 Jotungrip, -4 TWF) and then damage would be 2d6+3/2d6+3. That's still pretty low damage for level 8. My titan mauler barbarian gnome is going at a +10/+5 1d12+11 at level 7 before raging.


He would only be at -2 for two-weapon fighting, since his off-hand weapon is light.


How is the off-hand light?

Dark Archive

The offhand is an unarmed strike.


Not if he's duel-wielding Greatswords, which I believe is the intent.


Roanark wrote:
Not if he's duel-wielding Greatswords, which I believe is the intent.

His attacks are listed as Greatsword and unarmed strike.

Silver Crusade

Reach weapons...yes...Shelyn for the glaive.

My example wrote:


FoB (Greatsword, Greatsword with jotungrip): +2/+2 to attack, 2d6+4/ 2d6+4 damage

In this example, the off hand is a second greatsword.

Which I had been meaning to get clarification on. In the "Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus" chart, for level 1 it reads -1/-1. No where does it state that you take an extra penalty for NOT using a light weapon.

So, for greatsword #1...FoB -1, Jotungrip -2, STR +4, WFocus +1 = +2
And, for greatsword #2...FoB -1, Jotungrip -2, STR +4, WFocus +1 = +2

Or? Does the TWF penalty come into play on the second FoB attack? If that's the case, a monk using a quarterstaff (not a light weapon) has to take the penalty too. Which seems silly.


Brad McDowell wrote:

Reach weapons...yes...Shelyn for the glaive.

My example wrote:


FoB (Greatsword, Greatsword with jotungrip): +2/+2 to attack, 2d6+4/ 2d6+4 damage

In this example, the off hand is a second greatsword.

Which I had been meaning to get clarification on. In the "Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus" chart, for level 1 it reads -1/-1. No where does it state that you take an extra penalty for NOT using a light weapon.

So, for greatsword #1...FoB -1, Jotungrip -2, STR +4, WFocus +1 = +2
And, for greatsword #2...FoB -1, Jotungrip -2, STR +4, WFocus +1 = +2

Or? Does the TWF penalty come into play on the second FoB attack? If that's the case, a monk using a quarterstaff (not a light weapon) has to take the penalty too. Which seems silly.

If your strength was an 18 (you have is listed as a 17) then duel-wielding greatswords would look like this

FoB with GS be +4/+4 (+5 BAB, +4 Str, +1 Weapon Focus, -2 Jotungrip, -4 TWF) and then damage would be 2d6+4/2d6+4

All double weapons (which includes the quarterstaff) are set up so that the off-hand attack is considered a light weapon. A level 5 monk has a +3/+3 FoB attack, so add that on to the barb and you get a +5 bab. You left BAB out of your equation but forgot to add the TWF penalties.

Silver Crusade

4th level stat bump to STR, so 18 STR, +4 bonus. I was using a 20 point buy.

With FoB, BAB doesn't come into the equation. It's replaced by the numbers in the chart. So at this guy's level 4, he's still just a level 1 monk. His FoB attack bonus is -1/-1.

You even said it yourself...
A level 5 monk has a +3/+3 FoB attack

But this guy is a level 1 monk, so its -1/-1 FoB attack.


Sorry, was going on this

Quote:
Human CN Barb (Titan Mauler) 2/ Cleric (Crusader) 1/ Monk (Martial Artist) 5

That says level 8.

If this was a level 4 characters like you stated then here is how it would play out:

FoB BAB: +3 (+2 barbarian, +1 monk)
TWF Penalty: -4
Weapon Focus: +1
Jotungrip: -2
Strength: +4

Total: +2/+2 2d6+4/2d6+4 (same result as you, but different math)

Silver Crusade

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I did that so people would see the immunity to fatigue at level 8. The equations I was using at level 4 when all the crazy multiclassing got taken care of.

If that TWF penalty for not using a light weapon has to get tacked on, well then that just stinks. Maybe 3 levels of Barb for Massive Weapons, then the second FoB is a kick/headbutt.


Brad McDowell wrote:

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I did that so people would see the immunity to fatigue at level 8. The equations I was using at level 4 when all the crazy multiclassing got taken care of.

If that TWF penalty for not using a light weapon has to get tacked on, well then that just stinks. Maybe 3 levels of Barb for Massive Weapons, then the second FoB is a kick/headbutt.

Quote:

The monk rules for flurry of blows state: "For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level." How does this interact with BAB from class levels and racial Hit Dice? Does a multiclassed fighter 19/monk 1 flurry as if his BAB were only +1?

A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total.
So a fighter 19/monk 1 has a normal BAB of +19. When he flurries, he treats his monk BAB as +1 (for his 1 level of monk) and still gets BAB +19 from his fighter levels, for a total flurry BAB of +20.

Sorry, copying the FAQ/Errata here. But when multiclassing with Monk, you add the monk level to your existing BAB and that becomes your new FoB bab before you take the penalties for fighting with multiple weapons. So in the above example, if you were just using your fists, your FoB would be +5/+5 (BAB +3, Str +4, TWF -2)

One more thing to tack on, can't use massive weapons in one hand. The errata (from the designer) specifically states that you can only 1h a two-handed weapon that was properly designed for you, regardless of what you can actually wield.


This build suffers from using two classes/archtypes that have significant rules issues. Good work.

So you have to choose how FoB and the Titan Mauler abilities are going to work. If you go with the most adventageous for the player you don't need two weapons to FoB anyway and you should be able to use oversized greatswords in your flurry.

You should put an extra level or two into Barb so you can use a large (or even more massive) great sword.

I suspect that with those rulings the right build is more along the lines of:
Monk 8/Cleric 1/Titan Mauler 11
So you gain 2 extra attacks from monk levels, but only suffer -2 to all of them from flurry.
And the greatsword could be Gargantuan with just -6 to hit.

So we'd be at:
BAB +19
Flurry -2
Oversized -6
Strength +12 (or something, what is a raging strength at lvl20?)
Enhancement +5
Total: +28/+28/+23/+23/+18/+13
Damage: How much damage does a gargantuan great sword do?

Silver Crusade

Sorry, copying the FAQ/Errata here. But when multiclassing with Monk, you add the monk level to your existing BAB and that becomes your new FoB bab before you take the penalties for fighting with multiple weapons. So in the above example, if you were just using your fists, your FoB would be +5/+5 (BAB +3, Str +4, TWF -2)

This grasshopper has much to learn...

One more thing to tack on, can't use massive weapons in one hand. The errata (from the designer) specifically states that you can only 1h a two-handed weapon that was properly designed for you, regardless of what you can actually wield.

I knew that. That's why the second attack in a FoB would be a kick/headbutt. Cuz he's already wielding a massive weapon in 2 hands.


Brad McDowell wrote:


Sorry, copying the FAQ/Errata here. But when multiclassing with Monk, you add the monk level to your existing BAB and that becomes your new FoB bab before you take the penalties for fighting with multiple weapons. So in the above example, if you were just using your fists, your FoB would be +5/+5 (BAB +3, Str +4, TWF -2)

This grasshopper has much to learn...

One more thing to tack on, can't use massive weapons in one hand. The errata (from the designer) specifically states that you can only 1h a two-handed weapon that was properly designed for you, regardless of what you can actually wield.

I knew that. That's why the second attack in a FoB would be a kick/headbutt. Cuz he's already wielding a massive weapon in 2 hands.

Why not just take another swing with the massive weapon? Everyone acknowledges that the monk as written doesn't work and that pretty much everyone ever running a monk has allowed a single weapon to be used as the only weapon in a flurry.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If flurry ever gets figured out, I would go this route for a build, but with Sawtooth Sabres.


Building on this idea some more. Here's a level 8 version with only one weapon

Human Barbarian (titan Mauler) 6/Cleric 1/Monk 1 (additional levels in monk)

Str 20 (with magic item)

BAB: 6 (7 while using flurry of blows)

Feats: Weapon Focus (Greatsword) Power Attack Crusader's flurry

Equipment +1 Large Greatsword

Normal attack +13/8 3d6+8

Flurry of Blows while raging and power attack

+12/12/7 3d6+17 (I think)

Toss on a haste and it's now +13/13/13/8 3d6+17

Enlarged and it becomes 13/13/13/8 3d8+18

At level 9 the final product becomes:

13/13/13/8 3d8+21


Sorry, numbers were off. With reckless abandon the attack would be:

16/16/16/11 3d8+19
If target is large or bigger then add +1 to each attack


Im not clear on tgis, but i think the full srength damage for offhand attacks thing only applies to unarmed strikes. Though this seems to be almost universally ignored.


Mojorat wrote:
Im not clear on tgis, but i think the full srength damage for offhand attacks thing only applies to unarmed strikes. Though this seems to be almost universally ignored.

It's probably universally ignored because nothing in the flurry entry says it only applies to unarmed attacks. The flurry entry specifically states that it applies full the strength to all attacks.


I like this. It makes me smile.


Your enlarged numbers are low, enlarged gains a strength bonus :)


Only a +2, and the to hit is countered by size penalty.


Problem is, if you don't keep stacking monks levels, you end up sucking the entire penality of the flurry without the stacking bonus (the extra attacks).


Isn't that why the most recent posted character has all extra level in monk?


Right, with the Barb 6/Cleric 1/Monk 1 You would get 3 attacks at level 8. Everyone else gets their 3rd attack at level 11. By putting the rest of the levels into Monk, you'd get your fourth attack at level 15 and a 5th attack at level 17. Here's a breakdown of a level 15 build with Barb 6/Cleric 1/ Monk 8

Assuming
23 strength
Weapon Focus
Power Attack
Reckless Abandon
Crusader's Flurry
Enlarged (non-self buff unless potion)
Haste (non-self buff unless potion)
Rage
+2 Large greatsword

Attack iteration: +24/24/24/19/19 (+14 BAB, +6 str, +2 rage, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 Enlarged, +1 haste, +2 weapon, -1 size, -2 FoB)

Damage with buffs: 3d8+27 (+9 Strength, +3 Rage, +12 Power attack, +1 enlarged, +2 weapon)

Let me know if I missed any numbers!


A titan mauler can't use a large greatsword. Read it. He can use a large longsword or a huge shortsword with it.

Silver Crusade

Not sure if this means something:

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can
make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When
doing so he may make one additional attack
using any combination of unarmed strikes
or attacks with a special monk weapon
(kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai,
shuriken, and siangham) as if using the
Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the
monk does not meet the prerequisites for
the feat).

Greatswords aren't monk weapons last time I checked.


You can dual-wield normal greatswords or two-hand a single large greatsword. The trick here appears to be using unarmed strike as the 'off-hand' attack, though in this case it would be a kick/knee/elbow/forehead attack.

Silver Crusade

You can't be unarmed with a greatsword in your hand unless there is something I am missing.

Silver Crusade

Unarmed strikes include kicks and headbutts.

And...
Crusader's Flurry
You learned to use your deity's favored weapon as part of your martial arts form.

Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, flurry of blows class feature, Weapon Focus with your deity's favored melee weapon.

Benefit: You can use your deity's favored weapon as if it were a monk weapon.

Sovereign Court

shallowsoul wrote:

Not sure if this means something:

Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can
make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When
doing so he may make one additional attack
using any combination of unarmed strikes
or attacks with a special monk weapon
(kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai,
shuriken, and siangham) as if using the
Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the
monk does not meet the prerequisites for
the feat).

Greatswords aren't monk weapons last time I checked.

Crusaders Flurry allows you to Flurry with your diety's chosen weapon.

Silver Crusade

Brad McDowell wrote:

Unarmed strikes include kicks and headbutts.

And...
Crusader's Flurry
You learned to use your deity's favored weapon as part of your martial arts form.

Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, flurry of blows class feature, Weapon Focus with your deity's favored melee weapon.

Benefit: You can use your deity's favored weapon as if it were a monk weapon.

I see that about the feat now.

Are some of you trying to say that you can have a weapon in each hand but still be considered using an unarmed strike because you are using your feet, legs, and head?

Silver Crusade

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage on the table given below.

Bold mine.

Silver Crusade

Brad McDowell wrote:

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage on the table given below.

Bold mine.

You are going by the new changes to the flurry of Blows right?

Silver Crusade

I've always considered FoB to require alternate weapons for successive attacks. Look at the 4th level sample attacks for clarification.
(example: Left hand/right hand/left hand/right hand...or...sword/left hand/sword/left hand)

IMHO there is a distinct difference between Pathfinder's FoB and E. Honda's Hundred Hand Slap.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

All PCs have always been able to make unarmed strikes without using their hands. They do not even need the improved unarmed strike feat.


Ok, but he can't use a weapon larger than it. Even if he is a titan mauler.
I'm still build the same PC. ;)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Alex_UNLIMITED wrote:

Ok, but he can't use a weapon larger than it. Even if he is a titan mauler.

I'm still build the same PC. ;)

What?

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

shallowsoul wrote:
Brad McDowell wrote:

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

A monk also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage on the table given below.

Bold mine.

You are going by the new changes to the flurry of Blows right?

The new changes are not RAW yet, so I'd say they shouldn't go with those.


how do you get past the alignment restriction, barbs cannot be lawful, and monks are only lawful.


Martial Artists have no Alignment restriction.

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