A home brew system for rituals

[soulofwolf]

it has always bugged me that there weren't rules included for complex magical rituals so we made some complex magical rules for rituals. Feedback as always is appreciated and encouraged.

Rituals

A ritual is a long and complicated endeavor that a group of casters can choose to undertake in order to cast a spell that is otherwise unavailable to them. This is usually done by several lower level casters wishing to cast a spell too powerful for any one of them to cast alone, but this isn’t a universal truth.

Class and Caster Level of the Ritual

The first consideration is that all participants of the ritual must be of the same caster class. The reason for this is that they all need to cast magic in the same way in order to cast cooperatively. The participant with the highest caster level is considered the ritual leader.

Using the class of the participants, determine the lowest caster level needed to prepare and/or cast the spell they wish to activate using the ritual. That caster level is the total number of caster levels the group needs to equal (or exceed) in order to cast the ritual.

As an example, Wish is a 9th level sorcerer/wizard spell. We’ll continue to use this spell as the example from here on out. The earliest level a wizard is able to cast it is 17th level, and a sorcerer at 18th level. Therefore, if the ritual participants were wizards, their wizard class levels would have to equal 17 ( A level 9 and a level 8. Or three level 4’s and one level 5. And so on.) The same for a sorcerer, except they’d need one more caster level, since they can’t cast 9th level spells until 18th level (Two at level 9. Or three level 2’s, one level 5, and one level 7. Etc).

Length of Time

Now, you need to determine the length of the ritual. A ritual lasts a number of hours equal to double the caster level of the spell minus the caster level of the ritual leader. A Wish cast by wizards with a level 10 wizard acting as the ritual leader would last 24 hours (17th caster level x 2 - 10 for the level of the leader).

Each additional participant that adds caster levels above the minimum needed, and isn’t necessary for the casting of the ritual, adds one hour to the ritual’s time. The caster levels are added from highest to lowest. For this reason, the first participant who exceeds the needed caster level for the ritual isn’t counted as adding an hour to the ritual if removing them would take the caster level below the needed amount. This makes them necessary for the ritual to function and therefore not an ‘additional’ participant.

So in the case of a level 16, a level 7, three level 5’s, and two level 3 wizards casting Wish, the level 16 is counted first. He needs one additional caster level in order to cast the Wish ritual, so we add the level 7 next. They now meet the caster level requirement. The three level 5’s and two level 3’s add an additional 5 hours to the ritual because they aren’t actually needed. This would make their ritual take 23 hours (17th caster level x 2 - 16 for the level of the ritual leader + 5 for the additional participants)

Determining the Difficulty

Now that you’ve determined your caster class, caster level of the ritual, number of participants, and time of the ritual, you’re ready to figure the spellcraft DC needed for the ritual to succeed.

As stated earlier, the participant with the highest caster level is considered the ritual leader and they’ll be the one to make the spellcraft check at the end of the ritual to determine whether or not it was cast successfully. The other participants do NOT give any bonus to this check,

The base difficulty of a ritual is 20 + the spell level + 1/hour of the ritual.
After determining that, adjust it by adding 2 to the DC for each participant in the ritual, excluding the ritual leader.

If the total caster level of the participants exceed the needed caster level to perform the ritual, add the excess caster levels together, divide by 2 (round down) and reduce the total DC by that number.

To reduce the DC further, lives can be sacrificed as a part of the ritual. Each level (minimum 1) that is sacrificed reduces the spellcraft DC by 1 (A level 5 fighter would reduce the DC by 5). If the victim is an NPC class, you count ¼ of his levels off the DC (minimum 1). In the case of a level 8 Commoner, the DC would be reduced by 2.

Concentration and Interruption

Because rituals require so much focus and dedication, the longer they go on the harder they are to maintain.

After the first 12 hours, all participants must make concentration checks once an hour, every hour. These checks begin at DC 10 and go up by 1 every two hours. If you succeed by 10 or more, you can choose to give a +2 to another member of the ritual on the following check. If any
member fails their concentration check, the ritual is interrupted.

If a ritual is interrupted for any reason before completed, the ritual fails. All casters involved are depleted of their magical energies for the day (all prepared spells or spell slots are expended) and they’re fatigued for a number of hours equal to the time left in the ritual before it was interrupted.

Combined Ability Scores

A ritual cannot be completed if the casters involved do not have a high enough combined ability score to cast that spell.
To determine the combined ability score, start with the ritual leader’s primary casting ability (Intelligence for wizards). Now separately add the MODIFIERS of the rest of the participants and divide by 2 (round down). Add this number to the ritual leader’s ability score.

For example, the ritual leader has an intelligence score of 16. The other two participants helping him have int scores of 16 and 14. Take their modifiers (+3 and +2 respectively) added together (for a total of +5) and divided by 2 (which becomes a +2 after rounding down) and add that to the ritual leader’s int score of 16 (which becomes 18 with the +2). The end result will look like this: 16 + {(3 + 2) / 2} = 18. This group has a combined modifier of 18, meaning they can cast up to 8th level spells at the highest.

Multiple Spells and Past 9th Level...

For rituals involving multiple spells, the overall spell level is equal to highest spell in the ritual + 2 for each other spell involved. So combining a 9th level, a 6th level, and a 5th level spell would be the equivalent of a 13th level spell for the ritual’s purposes.

When determining the caster level for 10th level spells and up, assume the caster level is 20 + 3 for every level above 9th. A 10th level spell caster level would be 23, 11th would be 26, 12th would be 29, and so on. Use this caster level for all above considerations such as DC or time needed.

Additional Considerations

A rituals needs the normal components listed for the spell(s), as well as another 1000 gold per level of the spell(s).

The spellcraft difficulty for an outside observer to determine the spell effects of a ritual are 20 + spell level + 1/person involved in the ritual's casting.

A spell with a target of personal can only be used in a ritual if the target is the ritual leader. Additionally, the leader needs to be able cast the spell being used.

In order to make a ritual permanent, the Permanency spell must be included in the ritual (not cast afterwards) and 20,000 gold worth of diamond dust must be added to the material components used for the ritual.

To determine how multiple magic effects work together in the ritual, use the guidelines under Combining Magic Effects in Chapter 9: “Magic” of the Pathfinder Core Rulebook.

[Goth Guru]

I'm thinking a character doesn't need to be a caster to lead or join in a ritual. They are trying to draw power directly from powerful beings. So many horror stories are about fools calling up things they cannot control.

[Martin Kauffman 530]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding. Could a group of 17 dedicated 1st. level wizards theoretically cast a wish spell via ritual? Obviously, this would take a great number of attempts before success could be achieved; but if the only penalty was losing all your spells for a day and becoming fatigued, then I could certainly see a cult of npc monastic wizards continually ritualizing for a year ( or longer ) in order to obtain wish(es). If you wish to put a system of this type into effect in your home game, it would seem that much greater potential penalties are needed (dependent upon by how much the group fails their ritual check?). Perhaps unforseen serious magical effects could be unleashed against the ritualizers or the setting in general. A failed ritual of this type could even be an interesting starting point for an adventure of the "what have we unleshed" type.

[MagiMaster]

One problem I see is that there's no reason to get loads of people together here. In fact, there are plenty of reasons to avoid doing that (increases time, DC, etc.). Much of the fiction using such rituals makes it seem like the more the better. I'd suggest leave the time increase, but more people reduce the DC (or maybe the other way around).

[Goth Guru]

I also have a problem with using the standard spells, like wish.
Marriage, funeral, and an exorcism are more ritual, than spell.
A seance, if miss-performed, could result in possession.

[soulofwolf]

@martin yes 17 1st levels could do it, but there should be consequences other than the flat mechanics to failure, writting up a system for all the things that could go wrong would take ages though so it's kind of a GM discretion thing.

@ magimaster

Quote:

If the total caster level of the participants exceed the needed caster level to perform the ritual, add the excess caster levels together, divide by 2 (round down) and reduce the total DC by that number.

the more people that know what they are doing in a ritual the easier the dc is a level 4 caster would negate the +2 dc penalty, a level 6 would negate their +2 dc penalty and reduce the overall DC by 1. We made it this way cause we thought that having more people should make it easier, but having more people taht didn't know what they are doing should not.

@Goth guru An alternate system we have been considering is non casters using regular class levels in place of caster levels for the same purposes, but increasing the base DC by 5 for rituals of this type, since casters would have an easier time doing ritualistic magic than non casters.

and while things like marriage and funeral might be more ritual like that spells, 20 people performing a marriage isn't quite the same style plot hook as 20 people trying to open a gate to release the demon they have been sacrificing lives to for their wealth and power..

[Goth Guru]

soulofwolf wrote:

@martin yes 17 1st levels could do it, but there should be consequences other than the flat mechanics to failure, writting up a system for all the things that could go wrong would take ages though so it's kind of a GM discretion thing.

@ magimaster

Quote:

If the total caster level of the participants exceed the needed caster level to perform the ritual, add the excess caster levels together, divide by 2 (round down) and reduce the total DC by that number.

the more people that know what they are doing in a ritual the easier the dc is a level 4 caster would negate the +2 dc penalty, a level 6 would negate their +2 dc penalty and reduce the overall DC by 1. We made it this way cause we thought that having more people should make it easier, but having more people taht didn't know what they are doing should not.

@Goth guru An alternate system we have been considering is non casters using regular class levels in place of caster levels for the same purposes, but increasing the base DC by 5 for rituals of this type, since casters would have an easier time doing ritualistic magic than non casters.

and while things like marriage and funeral might be more ritual like that spells, 20 people performing a marriage isn't quite the same style plot hook as 20 people trying to open a gate to release the demon they have been sacrificing lives to for their wealth and power..

That's good.

I was assuming that one person leads the ritual, with lots of followers contributing. A few horror stories involve a demon summoning disguised as some be-nine ritual.

[MagiMaster]

I missed that line. But each additional person adds +3 due to also adding an extra hour, so you need a level 8 person to reduce the final DC by 1. (You're penalizing extra people multiple times here.)

I don't think this works out very well though. I'm assuming the point is to allow a large group of bad (or good) guys to cast some high level spell for mainly plot purposes.

Let's say they want to cast a 9th level spell:

For a group of level 1s, they'd need 17 people, but then the ritual will take 33 hours and require a DC 94 check, and no amount of extra people will make that work.

For a group of level 8s, they'd need 3 people, but the ritual will still take 26 hours and a DC 59 check. Each extra level 8 person adds 1 hour and reduces the DC by 1. A +20 isn't an unreasonable skill for the leader to have, but then they'll need another 29 level 8 people, bringing the total time up to 55 hours. Chances are very high that someone will fail the DC 30 concentration checks by the end of that.

For two level 16 casters, the ritual would take 18 hours and a DC 40 check. They can probably make it, if they can make all 8 of concentration checks. Likely, but not guaranteed.

In fiction, cults form for these purposes. A charismatic cult leader would gather a large group of low-level followers to help cast some big spell that they may or may not know the details of. So a level 10 cult leader with 7 level 1 followers would need 24 hours and a DC 73 check, which only goes up as he gets more followers. No point in founding a cult to take advantage of these rules.

Per your example, no 20 people of any level can pull this off. Either the DC will be too high, or someone will botch a concentration check.

[soulofwolf]

you misread a part of it again magi, each person that adds caster levels that aren't needed adds time. so the people who's levels are needed for the caster level of the spell don't add time. there were also two typo's i hadn't noticed before now. typo one is base DC is 10+ not 20+ and typo two was that the dc goes up by 1 for every 2 hours. Sorry my typing isn't great so i had my wife make it more readable for you guys, forgot to error check what she typed.

is there a way to go back and fix it in the top post? i don't see an edit button.

[soulofwolf]

a quick fix

Quote:

After determining that, adjust it by adding 2 to the DC for each participant in the ritual, excluding the ritual leader.

should read

After determining that, adjust it by adding 2 to the DC for each participant in the ritual needed to meet the minimum spell level requirement, excluding the ritual leader.

that fix should make it a bit more plausible, ty magi for pointing out the mistakes in the math.

[MagiMaster]

soulofwolf wrote:

is there a way to go back and fix it in the top post? i don't see an edit button.

Unfortuantely, none I know of. That's why so many people post Google doc links.

Anyway, you might want to run the numbers for a mid-level (5-10) cult leader and lots of low-level (1) cultists and see if it's plausible for them to cast a 9th level spell. I'd run the numbers, but I don't think I'd get it right without seeing the fixed rules as a whole.

[soulofwolf]

all right i'll make the fixes in a google doc and run the numbers.

[soulofwolf]

ok here's a full on cult 1 lvl 6 leader with 22 lvl 1's, and a link to a google doc with all the changes to the system, which now greatly benefits adding more people to the system for lower dc's, and makes the time castign easier to manage

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IenwNZ_GemMuWYVT0Ita6azjoP10mPO-3JiG_JT H_c0/edit

1 lvl 6
22 lvl 1's

leaders total bonus on concentration checks from ritualists = +11
highest concentration dc = 23
highest willsave dc = 10

39 hour ritual

dc = 10(base) + 9(spell level) + 14(1/2 hours above 10) + 11(casters needed) -11(spell levels above required) = (33 dc spellcraft check)

leaders spellcraft (no feats)
6 ranks + 4 mod + 3 in class = 13 roll of a 20 needed with no sacrifices or additional casters.

(adding 1 level 5 for a second in command drops the dc down to a 24 so only a needed roll of an 11.)

[MagiMaster]

That's the wrong link. There should be a share button on the page somewhere.

Without having read the corrections, a DC 23 concentration check is going to be impossible for the 1st level cultists. A concentration check is caster level plus ability mod, so +1 to +3 for most of the cultists.

[soulofwolf]

only the ritual lead has to make the concentration check with the changes, the rest have to make daily will saves vs. sleep

and here's the link

rituals

[MagiMaster]

Three things I notice:

NPC levels are usually valued at half PC levels. Not really important, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

A save versus sleep would usually be a Fortitude save, but I can see it working either way.

What do you mean by the ritual leader needing to be able to cast a personal range spell? Do you mean have it on their spell list, or actually be able to cast it? If the latter, there's no point to the ritual. It will always be better to cast the spell normally (or even hire a spellcaster) if that's an option.

[soulofwolf]

magimaster wrote:

Three things I notice:

NPC levels are usually valued at half PC levels. Not really important, but I thought it was worth pointing out.

A save versus sleep would usually be a Fortitude save, but I can see it working either way.

What do you mean by the ritual leader needing to be able to cast a personal range spell? Do you mean have it on their spell list, or actually be able to cast it? If the latter, there's no point to the ritual. It will always be better to cast the spell normally (or even hire a spellcaster) if that's an option.

1: good note on the npc levels, it's been adjusted

2: the will power was due to force of will keeping you focused, i know it's usually fort but thought in this case will was more appropriate.

3: he has to be able to cast it himself, yes for just casting it it would always be better to not be done in a ritual, however for added effects mixed with other spells i could see some instances of it being done, so wanted to clarify.

4: removing the restriction of all casters having to belong to the same class, as i feel it makes cults too restrictive for this purpose. and non casters can help with the ritual but if non casters are involved the base DC goes up by 5 for the ritual, and the non casters bab takes place of spell levels for purposes of determining time / dc.

[Goth Guru]

You might want to make cultist or minion a class. Basically, they have class features that aid the cult leader in performing the ritual. They would also have class skills like profession, bluff, ect. They will lead a double life as townsfolk and cultists. They might have just rituals, and maybe 0 level spells.
Only a ritual can awaken something like a Terrask.

[soulofwolf]

alright goth challenge accepted, I'll look over the NPC classes in the core book a bit to get an idea for power level and then i'll through something together afterwards and post it up for ya.

[soulofwolf]

actually after looking over the npc classes it wouldn't be an entirely new npc class, just an archtype.

Adept archtype; Adept Cultist.

Ritualistic perfection: Starting at 2nd level An adept cultist can reduce the time taken to perform a ritual by a number of hours equal to half their wisdom modifier. In order to do this an adept cultist must make a spell craft check DC = 10 + spell level of the ritual. This ability replaces Summon Familiar.

bluff replaces handle animal as class skill for the adept cultist.

I might be making a full class for Ritualists later as well, not an npc class, but more appropriate for a class that would lead rituals. just trying to decide if there would be a need for the class or not.

[Jal Dorak]

I like the idea, but it feels too cold and mechanical so far.

You need some more evocative elements like meta-components (candles, signs, etc) and ritual-assisting spells (prayer would be a good example).

I do like the idea that it would open up the door for more roleplaying and avoid the need for high-level casters everywhere.

One final point - in the case of summoning or calling creatures, the group should have to continue to engage in the ritual to control the creature each duration increment of the spell, otherwise it breaks free and attacks the ritualists.

[soulofwolf]

this is just intended as a guideline for gm's who want to use rituals in their games. it is assumed the base cost of the ritual

Quote:

A ritual needs the normal components listed for the spell(s), as well as another 1000 gold per level of the spell(s).

is of material components that are appropriate, such as ritual candles, oils, white sands to draw ritualistic diagrams ect... to go through and write up all rp considerations I could probably fill an entire book. this is just meant as a system for GM's to base rp considerations off of. In fact the ritual i plan on having my players undertaking requires components like a griffon's eye, and a mummy's hand, and many other things they will have to collect, and then after the ritual is complete they will have to continue doing the ritual while the only person not involved has a nice talk with an ancient evil spirit they have brought back for information, i'm really hoping they fail their checks so they have to track down the spirit after wards as well and send it back to where it came from as a important side quest.

As far as ritual assisting spells, i purposely avoided that after thought and consideration and wanted to keep it completely alone, so no spells could ever assist in easing a ritual as is. Obviously different gm's may decide that different spells can be use to make rituals easy, but i highly recommend against it as the difficulty of the rituals is the only thing that keeps them balanced.

[Goth Guru]

It looks good. Real good.
The consequences of failure also balance the benefits.

[Goth Guru]

Bumped because of the monk discussion.