You're not even close to overpowered in my book. And I'm not a heavy optimizer.
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The thing is, that if you re-build legally, you'd just probably lose Elemental Fist and gain like, Toughness, which would honestly make you more powerful. I'm seeing "mage armor" and "the shield" and wondering what that means, though. Monks aren't proficient with shields, so I'm assuming you've got a wand of shield and a wand of mage armor? So someone else is casting these spells through Use Magic Device on you, or you have a prepared caster with mage armor and a wand of shield?
But honestly
I also got greater magic fang +5 cast onto my hands with permanency (came out to about 9100 Gp if i remember)
So... explain that real quick.
How your character went up to a 20th level druid and asked them real nice to cast greater magic fang for 650 gold. But wait one second please mister druid-- wait for me to go back and get mister wizard to come over here to cast this spell.
Maybe you should have asked your DM before you assumed you could have a 20th level character and an 11th level character cast permanent magic on you.
and the 1.5 Str mod to my natural attacks, causing power attack to buff me at a -1/+3 ratio.
This is the only bit you're doing wrong. The dragon style modifier doesn't impact the PA modifier, so you should still be at -1/+2 there.
I have a martial artist 4/urban ranger 3 in CotCT right now who will take the rest of his levels in martial artist. He's also the party rogue, so the ranger 3 helps there (in addition to improved natural attack). He's in good shape but is just waiting for the belt of str and amulet of natural armor! I haven't had a chance to get those.
In running him, I don't think so far that he's been underpowered from a bonus feat standpoint (dodge and deflet arrows so far). I also don't think the missed feat at 8 will be missed much - you get a lot at level 8.
All the monks in the monastery are given the enchantment by the premier casters in the capital in order to strengthen their fighting prowess in order to spread the word of the almighty god, which the entire capital worships. The sorc and the druid are happy to give the buff because it furthers the cause of the premier religion of the land and because the monks work like missionaries spreading the word of god.
But honestly
I also got greater magic fang +5 cast onto my hands with permanency (came out to about 9100 Gp if i remember)So... explain that real quick.
How your character went up to a 20th level druid and asked them real nice to cast greater magic fang for 650 gold. But wait one second please mister druid-- wait for me to go back and get mister wizard to come over here to cast this spell.
Maybe you should have asked your DM before you assumed you could have a 20th level character and an 11th level character cast permanent magic on you.
I assumed that this was something that happened during the session.
Yeah, if you just bought that during character creation you better have a damn good story to tell.
Then tell your DM that maybe he shouldn't have 20th level characters handing out +5 to CMB and attack rolls to every level 1 monk in the world, and you'd probably find your character a lot less intimidating. Especially because the equivalent is that a wizard and a blacksmith hand out a +5 longsword to every guard in the religion's equivalent of Mecca.
+5 weapons?
they don't ignore DR like proper +5 weapons
they can be permananetly dispelled with a single 3rd level spell, unlike proper +5 weapons
it takes 2 spells at caster level 20th from 2 completely different spellcasting classes with 2 completely different spell lists. both of which are of opposing philosophies. both these casters would have to be so bored that there is nothing better for them to do. they could only hand it to so many acolytes a day, there has to be an immediate threat that isn't worth thier time, but is worth buffing a bunch of acolytes. and they have to be able to afford the enhancements. which usually means that you pay them upfront.
you know the likelyhood of level appropriate people dispelling lvl 20 spells isnt super high and honestly i havent seen people casting targeted dispells on monks alot.
the +5 the effective +5 to cmd is nits, it doesnt matter that it doesnt bypass like a normal +5 weapo given he can then get a Amulet of mighty fists of say bad guy appropriate bane for 5000 gold and be a monster
So, because my DM previously believed that monks are underpowered he let me choose for my bonus feats anything i met the prereqs for, or any first tier "style feats" from ultimate combat. Such as crane style, dragon style, boar style, But we must meet prereqs to take a second step style feat. He also houseruled that i received a bonus feat at level 8 because of the abundant step + Martial artist screw up where we need ki for our ability but dont have ki. This bonus feat makes up for me losing teleportation.
Sounds reasonable.
He has now told me after 1 session that my monk is so overpowered that I must reroll a new class!
I rolled a Human on the 25 point buy, this is my first campaign that has gotten over level 4. And at the moment we are level 9.
Because of the free feats change and the bonus feat at lvl 8, here is my feat list
Lvl 1: Dodge (lvl 1 feat), Crane Style (My human feat), Dragon Style (Bonus feat)
Lvl 2: Weapon Focus (Unarmed) (Bonus Feat)
Lvl 3: Power Attack (Lvl 3 Feat)
Lvl 4: -
Lvl 5: Dragon Ferocity (Lvl 5 Feat)
Lvl 6: Crane Wing (Bonus Feat)
Lvl 7: Crane Riposte (Lvl 7 Feat)
Lvl 8 : Elemental Fist (The abundant step free feat)
Lvl 9: Combat Style Master.Also we were given 33000 gold (The average character wealth at level 8) to spend on our gear or anything else we could dream up.
Again, not bad for a monk not focused on maneuvers.
So i got the standard monk's robes, belt of Str, and Headband of wis. I also got greater magic fang +5 cast onto my hands with permanency (came out to about 9100 Gp if i remember).
So, now I have the ability to swap styles as a free action. And i can fight defensively for a -1 to attack and +4 to Ac because of crane feats and a high rank in acrobatics. So that + mage armor, the martial artist exploit weakness for 4 AC, and the shield have me in the ballpark of 40 AC at level 9. But I also let off a pretty good about of damage with Attacking in dragon style with my 22 Str, and the 1.5 Str mod to my natural attacks, causing power attack to buff me at a -1/+3 ratio.
Here is where you/your DM are making errors:
1) Greater magic fang should not be getting you past DR, as it does not affect targets as a magic weapon. Also, you need it cast 2-3 times for a monk because the unarmed strike is more than one weapon (or at least that is the official ruling ATM). Otherwise it just gets you +1 on all your unarmed strikes. Sadly, this is the monk's big fall-down. To get the full +5 on your unarmed strikes should cost you at least double what you spent...and if he hasn't hit this with a Dispel Magic by now, he needs his head examined.
2) Mage armour + shield? Combined with the permanent magic fang you are one Greater Dispel Magic away from being up the sewage outlet with no visible means of propulsion. That will lose you +8 to AC and +5 hit and damage there and then. Meet one decent de-buffer and you are basically nerfed. At this level you should have bracers of armour and a ring of force shield instead.
3) You do not get -1/+3 to unarmed damage, you get -1/+2. The Dragon Style does not effect this, it is still counting as a one-handed weapon.
Anyway, My chance to hit lands in the 18/18/13/13 range with FoB without party buffs, and when they connect I am doing somewhere in the ballpark of 70-90 DPR but I can also free swap to crane and be a dedicated meatshield who also has a 27-31 touch AC depending on where i exploit weakness and fantastic saves from my 18 wis/14 dex/14 con. Is this over the top broken or am i doing something wrong?
Other than above, no. However if you should run into, say, a dragon with decent attacks you will suffer - especially as a dragon will likely hit you with a Dispel Magic first to debuff the party and then follow up with more attacks than even you can kick out.
1) Greater magic fang should not be getting you past DR, as it does not affect targets as a magic weapon.
The Martial Artist's Exploit Weakness ability makes DR a non-issue anyway (assuming he passes the check for it).
- I am not quite sure where the total of your AC comes from, but I suspect you made an error in there somewhere.
- Aide from most GM's never agreeing with the permanency casting for +5 weapons, you run into a good chance of getting dispelled sometime in the future, people might be aware of this common practice for all the monks of that monastary afterall. A greater dispel magic might cost you 9,100 gold twice, since it is once per limb, since flurry is currently considered to be done with two weapons.
- Your GM needs to cancel his houserules and veto your GMF shenanigans but not force you to make another class, monks aren't nearly as underpowered as they were before UC.
- after fixes you will probably be a very good defensive warrior but not so great in the DPR department.
- I am not quite sure where the total of your AC comes from, but I suspect you made an error in there somewhere.
I am guessing shield, mage armour and ki make up for +12 of it. Another +4 from the Crane style feats makes for +16, that leaves only 14 to account for, 12 after monk AC bonus. With boosted dexterity and wisdom, the rest could be from that. Without the ki and the spells/potions or whatever he is using, that's down to AC28 there and then.
You houserules are overpowered.
I have never seen an overpowered monk, of any kind.
If there is one, it must be the bigfoot of builds, legendary and may not exist.
Zen Archer and Sohei depending on what rules you are using/ignoring can be pretty scary. I'm not sure I'm ready to call them "Overpowered", but it doesn't take a lot of optimizing to put them in the running.
Zen Archer and Sohei depending on what rules you are using/ignoring can be pretty scary. I'm not sure I'm ready to call them "Overpowered", but it doesn't take a lot of optimizing to put them in the running.You houserules are overpowered.
I have never seen an overpowered monk, of any kind.
If there is one, it must be the bigfoot of builds, legendary and may not exist.
Yea, especially when the Zen Archer in question doesn't know the rules properly (or just chooses to ignore them), adding his Attack Bonus to his Flurry of Blows and adding his Intelligence to his ranged attacks, instead of using his Intelligence as a replacement for Dex. ¬_¬
The GM didn't really pick up on it that quickly and when he did, he didn't want to say anything to the 40 odd year old, because he was a standoff-ish guy, who would aggressively shout at you if you did anything he didn't want you to do...also threatening to throw his large metal dice at another players head (we're all around 20-25).
Needless to say, none of us wanted to play with him again and he took in character actions as personal insults against him as a player, as well as shooting everything in the face in game, regardless of whether or not they were essential to the story. The GM at one point even made him lose his powers for a level by shifting his alignment due to his actions. He wasn't happy about that either, but still.
Surprisingly, this was the campaign we survived longest in (level 6 - Wow, lol).
To overcome a Permanency spell cast at 11th level, you need an 11th level caster. Since the max on Dispel Magic is CL 10, you need Greater Dispel Magic to have any chance of affecting the Permanency...which could always be re-cast at a higher Caster level to stop this kind of stuff.
And it's definitely a rules exploit. Basically saying 'My guys have +5 th/dmg becuase they are monks.' The gold cost is negligble. Kind of like saying 'I can buy CL 12 Barkskin potions/wands granting +5 AC, thus I am uber.' Meh.
==Aelryinth
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You houserules are overpowered.
I have never seen an overpowered monk, of any kind.
If there is one, it must be the bigfoot of builds, legendary and may not exist.
I've seen overpowered monks.
Some weird splat book in 3.5 made all monk unarmed attacks into touch attacks, as well as doing additional elemental damage. I didn't care enough to read all the specifics, but it wasn't even WotC splat books.
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You houserules are overpowered.
I have never seen an overpowered monk, of any kind.
If there is one, it must be the bigfoot of builds, legendary and may not exist.I've seen overpowered monks.
Some weird splat book in 3.5 made all monk unarmed attacks into touch attacks, as well as doing additional elemental damage. I didn't care enough to read all the specifics, but it wasn't even WotC splat books.
Okay. I meant monks without houserules or 3rd party material.
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To overcome a Permanency spell cast at 11th level, you need an 11th level caster. Since the max on Dispel Magic is CL 10, you need Greater Dispel Magic to have any chance of affecting the Permanency...which could always be re-cast at a higher Caster level to stop this kind of stuff.
And it's definitely a rules exploit. Basically saying 'My guys have +5 th/dmg becuase they are monks.' The gold cost is negligble. Kind of like saying 'I can buy CL 12 Barkskin potions/wands granting +5 AC, thus I am uber.' Meh.
==Aelryinth
AFAIK, you are in error on 2 counts:
1) in Pathfinder there isn't a cap to the CL modifier to the dispelling roll;
2) even in the 3.x rulebooks the cap was to the modifier to the dispelling check, not to the Caster Level. you did cast the spell at your CL and what you could dispel was based on your actual caster level, even if it was higher than 10. Simply the maximum modifier to the check was capped at +10.
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Spells cast on other targets are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.
The line about requiring a higher caster level applies only to spells the caster targets himself with.
You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.
Magic fang is not covered by this clause of the spell. A regular dispel magic of any caster level can dispell a permanent magic fang.
oh, well, that fixes that. Good to hear that's been changed. Posting at work between breaks! :) So I was half right, just not the correct half!
==Aelryinth
Greatsword is mathematically better then greataxe, but you will get some monster crits.
Not sure on the Totems. I don't believe they cancel one another, but I'm sure someone will come along to affirm things.
==Aelryinth
As I understood it from the books, you can have only one totem and as a consequence only Rage Powers from one totem power tree. Even if that was changed, I don't recommend taking more than one. Beast Totem line + Suspicious seem to be popular these days. TriOmegaZero should know the right feat and rage power progression for your barbarian.