Upgrading Wondrous Items in PFS


Pathfinder Society

Shadow Lodge 2/5

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.

Can you upgrade a headband/belt of one stat to a headband/belt of more stats?

eg. Headband of Alluring Charisma +2 to a Headband of Mental Prowess +2 (Int & Cha).

There's precedent that you can upgrade generic weapons into specific weapons if the specific weapon can do everything the generic one can do, plus more. Just wondering if this could be applied to wondrous items.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I can't remember where to look it up, but my most recent understanding is that yes, you can do this. Hopefully someone will follow up and cite the right part of the Guide/FAQ for you.

Grand Lodge 4/5

Jiggy wrote:
I can't remember where to look it up, but my most recent understanding is that yes, you can do this. Hopefully someone will follow up and cite the right part of the Guide/FAQ for you.

Pathfinder Society FAQ

Quote:
Wondrous items whose names include a +X value (such as bracers of armor, headband of vast intelligence, amulet of might fists, etc.) may also be upgraded following the rules for upgrading magical items on page 19 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Alright, thanks.

5/5 5/55/55/5

So would this be legal

Belt of mighty constitution +2 to Belt of dwarven kind?

Scarab Sages

Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:

So would this be legal

Belt of mighty constitution +2 to Belt of dwarven kind?

No, because that wouldn't be an "upgrade", that would be a completely new magical item with completely new spell prerequisites. An upgrade involves increasing the power of a magical item but not changing its basic form or function, such as going from a mw weapon to a +1 weapon, or a ring of protection +1 to a ring of protection +1. To quote the Guide:

Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play wrote:
This rule also applies to upgrading from a +1 item to a +2 item and so on—you never have to repay the original cost or sell your current item for half to upgrade to the next step. Note that this only applies to items of the same kind— you can’t, for example, turn your masterwork rapier into a +1 greatsword.

Going from a belt of mighty constitution +2 to a belt of dwarvenkind is the wondrous item equivalent of going from a mw rapier to a +1 greatsword.

5/5 5/55/55/5

I don' know if you're right (i have the feeling you are),but the question isn't quite that bad.

The belt of dwarven kind and the belt of mighty constitution are both belts.

They both provide a +2 enhancement bonus to constitution. (albeit by different methods)

Its more like going from +2 hide armor to rhino hide. That works with armor, I don't know if it works with Wondrous items.

It depends on whether the belt is a belt of becomming dwarfy or a belt that gives you

+2 enhancement bonus to constitution
60' darkvision
Dwarven stonecutting
Cha based skill penalties and bonuses.

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:

I don' know if you're right (i have the feeling you are),but the question isn't quite that bad.

The belt of dwarven kind and the belt of mighty constitution are both belts.

They both provide a +2 enhancement bonus to constitution. (albeit by different methods)

Its more like going from +2 hide armor to rhino hide. That works with armor, I don't know if it works with Wondrous items.

It depends on whether the belt is a belt of becomming dwarfy or a belt that gives you

+2 enhancement bonus to constitution
60' darkvision
Dwarven stonecutting
Cha based skill penalties and bonuses.

while I agree with your statement above (bolding mine), you might also consider this wrinkle...

A CON bonus belt and and Dex bonus belt are both items on thier own - so going from a CON belt to a CON & DEX belt is (also) combining two magic items that work on their own... but we don't have a belt that gives Dwarven stonecunning (it's cunning not cutting, right?) - so upgrading a CON belt to a Dwarvenkind belt is MORE like upgrading a +2 sword to give it Flaming - which is not something that can be a magic item on it's own.

Again, not saying it works that way or not... that would be a question for M&M.

1/5

Quote:


you might also consider this wrinkle...

A CON bonus belt and and Dex bonus belt are both items on thier own - so going from a CON belt to a CON & DEX belt is (also) combining two magic items that work on their own...

This is a big clarification that I have not been able to track down yet. Anecdotally I have heard you can increase the stat bumps on the ability items a bit at a time - but that you need to start with the correct belt.

Example: You can upgrade a Belt of Dex from +2 to +4 to +6 incrementally. You can upgrade a Belt of Dex and Strength from +2 to +4 (and I assume you would have to buy both incremental increases at the same time as there is no named belt that is +4 to one stat and +2 to the second.) In the second case you also could not add a +2 to the third stat boost as you would be changing the named item you already own.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Since apparently none of us can figure out/reference with certainty the answer to Serum's actual question, perhaps Mike or Mark would be kind enough to pop in with an answer?

The Exchange 5/5

sounds like it needs an FAQ flag to me

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

14 people marked this as a favorite.

You cannot upgrade an item to an item of a different name with the exception of belts and headbands being upgraded to include more than one stat bonus (and the requisite change in name from belt of mighty constitution to belt of physical might, for example). You cannot upgrade from a non-named item to a named item.

The Exchange 5/5

Mark Moreland wrote:
You cannot upgrade an item to an item of a different name with the exception of belts and headbands being upgraded to include more than one stat bonus (and the requisite change in name from belt of mighty constitution to belt of physical might, for example). You cannot upgrade from a non-named item to a named item.

Thanks!

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Thanks Mark!

1/5

Excellent - Thanks.

Now if we could all just figure out how to upgrade a regular Wondrous Item to an RPG Superstar Wondrous Item life could get very interesting - but Jiggy already has a leg up on us on that one :-).

Shadow Lodge 2/5

Thanks for the answer, Mark!

The Exchange 5/5

Madallen wrote:

Excellent - Thanks.

Now if we could all just figure out how to upgrade a regular Wondrous Item to an RPG Superstar Wondrous Item life could get very interesting - but Jiggy already has a leg up on us on that one :-).

ah... try something like this...

Nosig's ToolKit:

take a Handy Haversack - cost 2000 gp,
and add into the Right hand pouch of the Haversack
20 Masterwork tools for selected skills - cost 1000 gp,
and you have
Nosig's Toolkit - Cost 3000 gp.
That provides a MW tool for 20 selected skills, AND stores 80# (upto 8 cubic feet) in a main section and another 20# (up to 2 cubic feet) in left hand side pouch of additional items, all accessable af if from a Handy Haversack (cause that's what it is).

LOL! easy. Now I guess I should write it up? sigh... to lazy I guess.


Wow, this makes a HUGE difference for my PFS cleric. I was saving up for a +2 Wis/+2 Chr belt, but I can get a +2 Wis after his next scenario, in time for 4th level spells!

Scarab Sages

Mark Moreland wrote:
You cannot upgrade an item to an item of a different name with the exception of belts and headbands being upgraded to include more than one stat bonus (and the requisite change in name from belt of mighty constitution to belt of physical might, for example). You cannot upgrade from a non-named item to a named item.

Mark, if a character already owns a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4, and wants to add a Constitution enhamcement to it, must the enhancement bonuses match? That is, must the character wait to upgrade to a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +4) for the additional 24,000 gp, or is there a way to make a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +2)? I'm assuming the enhancement bonuses must match, but wanted a ruling from either you or Mike Brock. Thanks!

Paizo Employee Director of Brand Strategy

Lem_Furryfeet wrote:
Mark, if a character already owns a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4, and wants to add a Constitution enhamcement to it, must the enhancement bonuses match? That is, must the character wait to upgrade to a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +4) for the additional 24,000 gp, or is there a way to make a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +2)? I'm assuming the enhancement bonuses must match, but wanted a ruling from either you or Mike Brock. Thanks!

They'd need to match, as there is no listed price for a belt of physical might +2 Dex/+4 Con in the wondrous items chapter of the Core Rulebook.

Grand Lodge 2/5 RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

There is no existing item that grants +4/+2, so it would be a custom item, and therefore not allowed.

Obviously I'm neither Mark nor Mike, but I'm on my lunch break and inclined to post. ;)

EDIT: Yoda ate my head! (That is to say, Mark ninja'd me.)

Grand Lodge 4/5

Lem_Furryfeet wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:
You cannot upgrade an item to an item of a different name with the exception of belts and headbands being upgraded to include more than one stat bonus (and the requisite change in name from belt of mighty constitution to belt of physical might, for example). You cannot upgrade from a non-named item to a named item.
Mark, if a character already owns a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4, and wants to add a Constitution enhamcement to it, must the enhancement bonuses match? That is, must the character wait to upgrade to a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +4) for the additional 24,000 gp, or is there a way to make a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +2)? I'm assuming the enhancement bonuses must match, but wanted a ruling from either you or Mike Brock. Thanks!

Lem,

I think Mark answered this indirectly. In the Core Rule book there are only +2, +4 and +6 belts and headbands be they for one stat, two stats or three. You don't have any belts with variations.

So lets say you have a Belt of Str. +2. You can upgrade it to a Belt of Str. +4 or a Belt of Str. +2/Con +2. But you can't upgrade a Belt of Str. +4 to a Belt of Str. +4/Con +2, it would have to be upgraded to a Belt of Str. +4/Con. +4.

Hope that makes sense.

Nathan Meyers
NYC Player/GM

Scarab Sages

Mark Moreland wrote:
Lem_Furryfeet wrote:
Mark, if a character already owns a Belt of Incredible Dexterity +4, and wants to add a Constitution enhamcement to it, must the enhancement bonuses match? That is, must the character wait to upgrade to a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +4) for the additional 24,000 gp, or is there a way to make a Belt of Physical Might (Dex +4, Con +2)? I'm assuming the enhancement bonuses must match, but wanted a ruling from either you or Mike Brock. Thanks!
They'd need to match, as there is no listed price for a belt of physical might +2 Dex/+4 Con in the wondrous items chapter of the Core Rulebook.

That's what I thought. Thanks very much, Mark, for the quick response/clarification. Come on, 24,000 gp!

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