Item Creation Cost - Way too cheap for this!


Homebrew and House Rules


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I need help with the cost of an item a PC would like to make.

He wants to make glove tha allow him to cast Magic Missle as a standard action all day and as a 9thlevel caster doing 5d4+5 force damage every time and never missing.

As I read the rules the cost is (spell level 1 x CL 9 x 2,000gp = 18,000GP). I don't have a problem with item creation but this seems very powerful to me for an extremely low price.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

The bottom line about the magic item creation 'rules', and please don't take offense, because this topic comes up several times a day, is that the rules are a last resort. What you are supposed to do first, is attempt to find an item with a similar power level, and base it off that.

Even if you can't find one, they are guidelines, not hard and fast rules. The player cannot simply have it, because they can price it out cheesily.

edit: as a last resort, consider this: if the item is so good that it's a no brainer to take, the mages enemies are going to make them too, right? so he may find that his enemies start peppering him with magic missiles, and it may be less pleasant.

cheese goes both ways, so i always tell my players

Dark Archive

There's nothing wrong with that. A wand of the same spell at CL 9 would cost 6750 gp. If he wants to spend over three times as much to not have to worry about it running out of charge, whatever.

A super powerful item that's shut down by shield? Meh.

Dark Archive

Like Weables said, if you have any issue with the item being abused or overused, just have your NPC's start prepping counters to it like shield, temporarily dispelling the item, or maybe even some counterspells.


5d4+5 is an average of 17.5 damage/round. At 9th level that is pretty darn tame. While Weables is correct, and the item creation guidelines should not be taken too literally, I think 18,000 seems pretty reasonable for this item.


Murgos the Mad,

My favorite item to show people why this doesnt work is Ring of Invisibility.

Ring of invisibility should be priced at 2*3*1800 = 10,800gp. Instead it is priced at 20,000gp because 10,800gp is too cheap for what it does.

Ring of Animal Friendship should be priced at 1*3*1800 = 5400 but is instead priced at 10800gp.

There are other items that are the same but you should get the idea.

On custom items my general answer is 'no'. After that I might go to a maybe. If your bday falls on christmas I might say yes. (joking about that last bit.)

- Gauss


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Mergy wrote:

There's nothing wrong with that. A wand of the same spell at CL 9 would cost 6750 gp. If he wants to spend over three times as much to not have to worry about it running out of charge, whatever.

A super powerful item that's shut down by shield? Meh.

based on that it costs about the same as 134 charges

Dark Archive

Catprog wrote:
Mergy wrote:

There's nothing wrong with that. A wand of the same spell at CL 9 would cost 6750 gp. If he wants to spend over three times as much to not have to worry about it running out of charge, whatever.

A super powerful item that's shut down by shield? Meh.

based on that it costs about the same as 134 charges

Woo, that will certainly break encounters. As another poster stated, 17.5 average damage. Unblockable damage, but for 18,000 gp it had better have some upside. It certainly isn't good damage.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Mergy wrote:
Catprog wrote:
Mergy wrote:

There's nothing wrong with that. A wand of the same spell at CL 9 would cost 6750 gp. If he wants to spend over three times as much to not have to worry about it running out of charge, whatever.

A super powerful item that's shut down by shield? Meh.

based on that it costs about the same as 134 charges
Woo, that will certainly break encounters. As another poster stated, 17.5 average damage. Unblockable damage, but for 18,000 gp it had better have some upside. It certainly isn't good damage.

It is blockable damage. shield for one thing. Also spell turning and SR(I think).

I don't know whether 134 charges is a good or a bad multiplier. i was simple saying it is about equal in cost to 134 charges.

Also it works out at ~12 rounds/level (assuming you start at 9 and go up to 20) to even get to 134.

Dark Archive

Catprog wrote:

It is blockable damage. shield for one thing. Also spell turning and SR(I think).

I don't know whether 134 charges is a good or a bad multiplier. i was simple saying it is about equal in cost to 134 charges.

Also it works out at ~12 rounds/level (assuming you start at 9 and go up to 20) to even get to 134.

I'm just surprised that the OP finds this item broken. It's kind of awful for the cost. This is more expensive than boots of speed. Woo, I can kill commoners at will now!

Grand Lodge

Being the level to afford this, a martial character should be doing way more damage.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Maps, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Mergy wrote:
Catprog wrote:

It is blockable damage. shield for one thing. Also spell turning and SR(I think).

I don't know whether 134 charges is a good or a bad multiplier. i was simple saying it is about equal in cost to 134 charges.

Also it works out at ~12 rounds/level (assuming you start at 9 and go up to 20) to even get to 134.

I'm just surprised that the OP finds this item broken. It's kind of awful for the cost. This is more expensive than boots of speed. Woo, I can kill commoners at will now!

Or a +3 weapon.


Allow it. Every GP he wastes on magic missile is gp not spent in black tentacles, glitterdust, grease, colour spray and so on.


BTW, there is one reason I think we haven't seen an unlimited use damage spell-based wondrous item. While we talk about avg17.5 from MM being 'who cares' type damage we are actually forgetting that this would open the door to alot more damaging spells. 3*5*1800 = 27,000gp infinite use lightning bolt or fireball. Average damage of 17.5 save for half but as an area affect.

Or how about 2*11*1800 = 39600 for 3 scorching rays of 4d6 each?

These are just the damaging spells. There are much worse options to consider.

I am loathe to take any spell and just slap it into a wondrous item for an unlimited use item because once that door is opened itll stay opened for just about anything.

- Gauss


I would allow it, but only if every archer he meets smirks or giggles every time he uses it.

Yes the price is reasonable. Yes it is balanced. Yes its horrible damage but a great back up so the caster doesnt have to waste spells on trash in between real fights.

If anything as a DM you should like him having this. It will promote longer adventuring days. No ... well we had 3 fights... lets leave the dungeon and come back tomorrow. Maybe now you can have 4 or 5 fights!

Seriously ... let him have it, but with a word of caution to your group that custom items are a DM call and up for veto if you dont agree with them.

Example: Boots with continuous Haste all day long. 30,000 gp.

Double base speed.
+1 to hit
+1 Dodge to AC
Extra attack when you full attack.

All for 30,000 gold. That is where the rules tend to get gray. Not infinite 1st level spells.


Gauss wrote:

BTW, there is one reason I think we haven't seen an unlimited use damage spell-based wondrous item. While we talk about avg17.5 from MM being 'who cares' type damage we are actually forgetting that this would open the door to alot more damaging spells. 3*5*1800 = 27,000gp infinite use lightning bolt or fireball. Average damage of 17.5 save for half but as an area affect.

Or how about 2*11*1800 = 39600 for 3 scorching rays of 4d6 each?

These are just the damaging spells. There are much worse options to consider.

I am loathe to take any spell and just slap it into a wondrous item for an unlimited use item because once that door is opened itll stay opened for just about anything.

- Gauss

Really? 36 damage a round for 40,000 gp is too much for you? And it requires an attack roll... and it is fire damage? That is going to far?


I did not say it is. I said that it opens the door. Any 'straight damage' use like this is honestly, lackluster. But, itll start a race to figure out the best, nastiest use of a spell in a use at will activated item. I simply choose not to go there at all.

BTW, it is 42 damage a round for 40,000gp. :P OH, the attack roll is a touch attack roll. Something which has already been established as being a non-issue most of the time.

Remember my stance on custom magic items. I start with no and proceed to maybe. I have yet to see anything that would convince me to open the 'stick whatever spell you want into your wondrous item' door.

- Gauss

Edit: Heck, it wont be long until a player who asked for an unlimited MM wondrous item realizes he can get an unlimited CLW item. At that point are you going to say no 'just because'? You opened the door. (BTW, I do not specifically mean this of the OP's player, I mean any player who asks.)


Gauss wrote:

I did not say it is. I said that it opens the door. Any 'straight damage' use like this is honestly, lackluster. But, itll start a race to figure out the best, nastiest use of a spell in a use at will activated item. I simply choose not to go there at all.

BTW, it is 42 damage a round for 40,000gp. :P OH, the attack roll is a touch attack roll. Something which has already been established as being a non-issue most of the time.

Remember my stance on custom magic items. I start with no and proceed to maybe. I have yet to see anything that would convince me to open the 'stick whatever spell you want into your wondrous item' door.

- Gauss

Edit: Heck, it wont be long until a player who asked for an unlimited MM wondrous item realizes he can get an unlimited CLW item. At that point are you going to say no 'just because'? You opened the door. (BTW, I do not specifically mean this of the OP's player, I mean any player who asks.)

Well I agree that is does open the door to overpowered magic items if there is no restriction. But damage spells are not in that category imo. While I am probably less strict then you I do agree that each item should stand on its own merit. That its up to the DM to say NO. I think we are on the same page to a degree...

Some things I would veto.

Save or die/suck - No
Short Duration Combat buffs (Haste, Divine Might, ect) - No
Summoning spells - No
Healing spells - Meh... here I disagree with you. An unlimited CLW wand will do the same thing as a 50 charge CLW wand will do. Out of Combat healing which just extends the adventuring day. To me that is a GOOD thing. 3 fights and done is super annoying. I hate parties that do that. Unlimited OOC healing just helps to keep it from happening. I would allow it.


Gauss wrote:
Heck, it wont be long until a player who asked for an unlimited MM wondrous item realizes he can get an unlimited CLW item. At that point are you going to say no 'just because'?

Because one breaks the game and one doesn't. Even your scorching ray thing is paltry, and so are any typical blasty items. If they waste that much cash on unlimited paltry damage then they are not spending cash on nice items, like rods of quicken, headbands of statboost, pearls of power and so on. 40000gp... We're talking +4 weapon territory. By that time caster can summon demons and other nasties, teleport, fly all day long etc. Who's complaining about a damage item that doesn't even come close to what a fighter can do with that +4 weapon.

When it comes down to it, it's the GM's call. This is exactly what a GM should do. It does not 'open the door' because the GM is the doorkeeper, and he should decide in this case. He can decide not to allow CLW items, but to allow MM items and there is nothing wrong with that.


I agree it is the GM's call, but how many threads have we seen where a GM did something the player didn't like and the player cried foul? It creates an unnecessary social problem in the game and thus I start with my regular stance: custom item? NO. Now convince me.

- Gauss


I think we are all saying the same thing. Gauss is just saying it weird.

If I say "NO". That doesn't mean convince me. That means no... end of discussion. NO custom items.

I say "Unlikely". This leaves room for convincing and discussion. Same thing... just different words.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Are you calling me weird?! Why thank you. Heheheh

- Gauss


No No No lol. Sorry. Poor choice of words.


Gauss wrote:

Murgos the Mad,

My favorite item to show people why this doesnt work is Ring of Invisibility.

Ring of invisibility should be priced at 2*3*1800 = 10,800gp. Instead it is priced at 20,000gp because 10,800gp is too cheap for what it does.

Ring of Animal Friendship should be priced at 1*3*1800 = 5400 but is instead priced at 10800gp.

There are other items that are the same but you should get the idea.

On custom items my general answer is 'no'. After that I might go to a maybe. If your bday falls on christmas I might say yes. (joking about that last bit.)

- Gauss

Actually - no.

the base spell 'invisibility' has duration of min\level - according to the rules:

2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

so double the cost that you calculated - it actually cost 20,160gp - I guess they rounded that down.


Murgos the mad wrote:

I need help with the cost of an item a PC would like to make.

He wants to make glove tha allow him to cast Magic Missle as a standard action all day and as a 9thlevel caster doing 5d4+5 force damage every time and never missing.

As I read the rules the cost is (spell level 1 x CL 9 x 2,000gp = 18,000GP). I don't have a problem with item creation but this seems very powerful to me for an extremely low price.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

I agree with everyone else that it's not particularly overpowered. If he wanted it as a swift action, it would be, but as a standard action, no. It probably ought to be a ring, rather than gloves, based on precedent, but it works as gloves.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Eternal wands did this in the Magic Item Compendium for something like 3/day.

The Exchange

Simply put, I would tell him to buy a wand. He probably doesn't realize that he'll most likely never have to use that item more than 50 times. The only reason he would need an at-will wondrous item is if he wasn't a caster, in which case he wouldn't be able to custom make magic items because I don't let players go to an npc wizard with requests like that.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

<nerd voice>I wanna cast magic missile!! *giggle, snort*</nerd voice>


Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Simply put, I would tell him to buy a wand. He probably doesn't realize that he'll most likely never have to use that item more than 50 times. The only reason he would need an at-will wondrous item is if he wasn't a caster, in which case he wouldn't be able to custom make magic items because I don't let players go to an npc wizard with requests like that.

Exactly. Do the math. Average length of combat (in my experience) 5-6 rounds. Number of times you will use this wand instead of something more powerful, 1 out of 4, maybe 1 out of 3 times. Average use per battle, approx. 1.5. Number of battles it will take for you to run through a 50 charge wand: over 30. Level you will be 30 battles from now?

Seriously, ask around, do you know anyone (barring people who actually build wandslingers) who has gone through an entire 50 charge wand without discarding it for something better. I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it in 20 years involvement in RPGs.


BlueEyedDevil wrote:
Hunterofthedusk wrote:
Simply put, I would tell him to buy a wand. He probably doesn't realize that he'll most likely never have to use that item more than 50 times. The only reason he would need an at-will wondrous item is if he wasn't a caster, in which case he wouldn't be able to custom make magic items because I don't let players go to an npc wizard with requests like that.

Exactly. Do the math. Average length of combat (in my experience) 5-6 rounds. Number of times you will use this wand instead of something more powerful, 1 out of 4, maybe 1 out of 3 times. Average use per battle, approx. 1.5. Number of battles it will take for you to run through a 50 charge wand: over 30. Level you will be 30 battles from now?

Seriously, ask around, do you know anyone (barring people who actually build wandslingers) who has gone through an entire 50 charge wand without discarding it for something better. I'm sure it happens, but I haven't seen it in 20 years involvement in RPGs.

Only curing wands, buff wands, and a shocking grasp wand in the hands of a magus. Never any other offensive wand.


Ring of Unlimited Wishes...
(9x17x2000) + 1,250,000 = 1,556,000 Ok so you don't need to worry about it til epic.

Ring of Mass Heal.....
9x25x2000 = 450,000 Mass heal every round for 250 points of healing...

Dark Archive

Ughbash wrote:

Ring of Unlimited Wishes...

(9x17x2000) + 1,250,000 = 1,556,000 Ok so you don't need to worry about it til epic.

Ring of Mass Heal.....
9x25x2000 = 450,000 Mass heal every round for 250 points of healing...

Your ring of mass heal costs more than half of what a level 20 character will typically have available to him.

You guys still haven't found anything overpowered.


I blew through a CL 5 wand of fly in my Kingmaker game, making the entire party and the cavalier's horse fly. I also used up quite a bit of a second one I crafted, as well as some of wands of each resistance. But my maxed out wand of magic missile? I hardly ever used it.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Not really overpowered. By the time you could afford such a thing, you have more important things to do with a standard action. You might come out slightly ahead in gp economy, but you'd lose in action economy.


Ironballs wrote:
Gauss wrote:

Murgos the Mad,

My favorite item to show people why this doesnt work is Ring of Invisibility.

Ring of invisibility should be priced at 2*3*1800 = 10,800gp. Instead it is priced at 20,000gp because 10,800gp is too cheap for what it does.

Ring of Animal Friendship should be priced at 1*3*1800 = 5400 but is instead priced at 10800gp.

There are other items that are the same but you should get the idea.

On custom items my general answer is 'no'. After that I might go to a maybe. If your bday falls on christmas I might say yes. (joking about that last bit.)

- Gauss

Actually - no.

the base spell 'invisibility' has duration of min\level - according to the rules:

2 If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

so double the cost that you calculated - it actually cost 20,160gp - I guess they rounded that down.

Actually - yes. LOL j/k

The ring of invisibility is NOT a continuous item. Thus, you cannot use the continuous item pricing. It is command activated. Thus, you use the command activated pricing. It is as simple as that. If you go back through WoTC's files they even explained how Ring of Invisibility was priced and the pricing did not change when it was moved from 3.5 to 3.P.

BTW, if I tried to price it as you suggested I would be violating the rules because I would be using 'command' pricing and then adding a 'continuous' modifier. spell level*caster level*1800 is command, spell level*caster level*2000 is continuous. Then apply charges to command if charged or apply the duration modifier if continuous.

- Gauss


It's not that bad if you close another 2 doors.
1. It's a special named item. You cannot add stuff to a standard holy sword after the fact. Likewise, you cannot add storing to a Magic missile glove.
You want to trade glove of storing for that? Do it.
2. Every craftsman is allowed one special named item to craft. It's not retrainable, ever! That and standard items. You want to make bracers of armor and healing also? Too bad, so sad.

Since to operate the glove you have to point as in a spell gesture, you can only use it once a round and cannot also cast a spell with gestures.


Actually you can add stuff to any items as per CRB p553 'Adding New Abilities'. The only exception to this MIGHT be Specific Armor, Shields, and Weapons.

Unless, you are proposing a specific 'rule' for these items? If so I just realized it and I agree with your idea.

- Gauss


Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

Lots of good responses and apparently it appears I might be wrong about how powerful these gloves are.

To me being able to stay 100+ feet away and never miss a target with force damage is real good.
And yes there is shield spell and SR but most standard monsters have neither of these until high level.

I will let him craft these gloves and see how it goes.
I think my cannnon fodder is about to be pummeled with Magic Missles on a regular basis.


Yes, I am proposing homebrew rules.
By the way, that glove is not much good against a charging Grazebo!
It's also not going to drop a fire giant before it can throw a burning rock at you.


I think that this is balanced. Effectiveness of the spell scales with the caster level. IMO, when people say the item creation equations are a last resort I get irritated. If you wanna jack up the price, stick to the formula, and raise the CL. That will quickly scale the price of the item to a level that you as a DM are comfortable with.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Item Creation Cost - Way too cheap for this! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules