Magus 7 / Cleric 3 / Mystic Theurge 10


Advice


I know this build was suggested in a guide here on the boards. Has anyone tried it out yet?

Perhaps an optimized build for it? I know it would make use of the Broad Study Arcana.

I'm really thinking about trying this out, any suggestions on skills/feats/equipment would be appreciated.


The low BAB of the MT is going to make it hard for the character to hit target AC at higher levels. <--This doe not mean it won't work.

At level 20 your BAB will be 13 I think. You are probably thinking that is only 2 lower than the 15 you would have as 20th level magus or cleric, but if you plan to do a lot of damage that -2 affects DPR(damage per round a lot).

How you plan to use the build in combat will determine what are good feats for you.


wraithstrike wrote:

The low BAB of the MT is going to make it hard for the character to hit target AC at higher levels. <--This doe not mean it won't work.

At level 20 your BAB will be 13 I think. You are probably thinking that is only 2 lower than the 15 you would have as 20th level magus or cleric, but if you plan to do a lot of damage that -2 affects DPR(damage per round a lot).

How you plan to use the build in combat will determine what are good feats for you.

Thanks for the reply Wraithstrike :)

I figure with this kind of build I can focus on making good use of touch attacks insted of straight weapon damage. Since I'll have a good supply of spells to choose from, I will also be able to self buff and improve my attack and damage. I believe this build is versatile enough to cast from the mid to back ranks as well.


It does seem interesting.

Arcane Strike is good since you will be using weapon damage after the first hit.

If you can still get your attack bonus high enough power attack should be a decent option.

weapon focus

improved init

Spell Penetration if you plan on trying to force any saves on a regular basis.

Great Fortitude

intensify spell(works well with shocking grasp and a high crit range weapon).

Improved critical.


SithHunter wrote:

I know this build was suggested in a guide here on the boards. Has anyone tried it out yet?

Perhaps an optimized build for it? I know it would make use of the Broad Study Arcana.

I'm really thinking about trying this out, any suggestions on skills/feats/equipment would be appreciated.

What are you attempting to achieve with this?

I don't think you will be as happy as with something else.

But it would be nice to see broad study be worthwhile, I don't see why there is a level restriction on that arcana.

-James

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
james maissen wrote:


But it would be nice to see broad study be worthwhile, I don't see why there is a level restriction on that arcana.

-James

Presumably to keep the Magus from becoming a dip class.


wraithstrike wrote:

It does seem interesting.

Arcane Strike is good since you will be using weapon damage after the first hit.

If you can still get your attack bonus high enough power attack should be a decent option.

weapon focus

improved init

Spell Penetration if you plan on trying to force any saves on a regular basis.

Great Fortitude

intensify spell(works well with shocking grasp and a high crit range weapon).

Improved critical.

Some good options there. I'm kind of concerned that the build may be a little too "broad" as far as what to do when, but I like versatility. I think Toughness would be a good addition as well.


Okay I just did a quick build on hero lab to answer a few of the questions.

BAB: +12 So the attack structure is: 12/7/2. Using 20 point buy I was able to get melee up to 13/8/3 (before magic items)

I chose half elf and put his stat boost in int and boosted both wisdom and int with stat boosts at 4-20 levels stats are as follows
Str: 12 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 18 Wis: 18 Cha: 12 (Point buy 20)

Spell break down: Cleric: 0-7 (7 being 1 Spell/1 Domain Spell) Magus: 0-6 (6 being 2 Spells) with a Headband of Mental Superiority you get a one spell boost to both Spell lists at 7 (which means boost in the lower ones as well)

Mind you this was just a quick rundown as I am not the best person for optimization builds. Just thought I help give you an idea what it would look like.


james maissen wrote:
SithHunter wrote:

I know this build was suggested in a guide here on the boards. Has anyone tried it out yet?

Perhaps an optimized build for it? I know it would make use of the Broad Study Arcana.

I'm really thinking about trying this out, any suggestions on skills/feats/equipment would be appreciated.

What are you attempting to achieve with this?

I don't think you will be as happy as with something else.

But it would be nice to see broad study be worthwhile, I don't see why there is a level restriction on that arcana.

-James

I was actually looking at Broad Study and thought it would make sense to try to multiclass a Magus and use it.

As far as what I'm trying to accomplish, I just wanted to see what it would be like to have a Magus who can use both arcane and divine at the same time using spellstrike and spell combat.

The concept intrigued me, so I wanted to try it out.


SolidHalo wrote:

Okay I just did a quick build on hero lab to answer a few of the questions.

BAB: +12 So the attack structure is: 12/7/2. Using 20 point buy I was able to get melee up to 13/8/3 (before magic items)

I chose half elf and put his stat boost in int and boosted both wisdom and int with stat boosts at 4-20 levels stats are as follows
Str: 12 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 18 Wis: 18 Cha: 12 (Point buy 20)

Spell break down: Cleric: 0-7 (7 being 1 Spell/1 Domain Spell) Magus: 0-6 (6 being 2 Spells) with a Headband of Mental Superiority you get a one spell boost to both Spell lists at 7 (which means boost in the lower ones as well)

Mind you this was just a quick rundown as I am not the best person for optimization builds. Just thought I help give you an idea what it would look like.

Okay so he won't be a front line melee guy, maybe an opportunistic mid range spell caster.

I'm going to go with human for the race (flavor purposes). Looking at the point buy a build like this may be a little MAD, though I don't have to emphasize strength as much.

Here's a question...which deity should I select? Magic would be the obvious flavorful choice. Any others with better domain powers?


LazarX wrote:
james maissen wrote:


But it would be nice to see broad study be worthwhile, I don't see why there is a level restriction on that arcana.

-James

Presumably to keep the Magus from becoming a dip class.

Loosing 3 levels (when you could take arcana in the first place) is not a 'dip' for a pure caster.. it's an entire 2nd class in terms of what it needs to deliver to try to break even.

-James


SithHunter wrote:

\

I was actually looking at Broad Study and thought it would make sense to try to multiclass a Magus and use it.

Good luck, but I don't see it coming to fruition.

-James


james maissen wrote:
SithHunter wrote:

\

I was actually looking at Broad Study and thought it would make sense to try to multiclass a Magus and use it.

Good luck, but I don't see it coming to fruition.

-James

Sorry you feel that way James. Personally I think the build has potential and I'd like to try it.

Perhaps in theory the build might seem to sacrifice too much in some areas, but experience leads me to believe that it may be different in actual practice.

Liberty's Edge

This will be difficult to pull off. I would either prioritize dex and go dervish dance or prioritize strength. I would not buy 18s in intelligence and wisdom. Your spell levels will be far enough behind to where trying to buff the DCs with ability scores is a losing battle. I'd concentrate on cleric self-buff and party-buff spells, magus no-save damage spells, and divinations.

At level 20, you'll have level 7 cleric spells and level 6 magus spells, meaning that you only need wisdom 17 and intelligence 16 to cast those spells. I'd recommend buying 14 int/14 wis and look for a +4/+4 headband.

If you're building this for flavor or character, go for it. Also, having a character with a wide variety of abilities can be fun, or just what some groups need. I would expect it, though, to be less effective than a level 20 cleric or level 20 magus. You basically spend 7 levels developing a magus, then throw the brakes on for 3 levels do develop a cleric, and then give up progression of all features from both classes except for the spellcasting progression of both. And, honestly, that's where the magus gets a lot of its power: Things like arcane pool, ability to cast in more kinds of armor, (although 7 is pretty good for this.) and improvements to previously-acquired class features. And, of course, considering the cleric side of things you give up domain abilities and channel dice - but those are a much less important part of the cleric than features are to a magus.

All that having been said, I'd choose domains that give you basically the best of their domain power at level 1 and high-quality spells.

Grand Lodge

IF you can get this character to higher level its the ULTIMATE gish. Magic is your 'female canine'... you can cast whatever you need, when you need and you can still fight OK.

That said this character really only works at the upper end of levels and if your campaign is low level it isnt gonna work, and if its likely to top out around 12th (PFS) to 14th level then its gonna be a lot of pain for not a lot of time of being in your preferred Zone.

In a pre-gen (start at 8th level etc) it is a pretty decent and fun approach because you avoid the growth stage.


Axebeard wrote:

This will be difficult to pull off. I would either prioritize dex and go dervish dance or prioritize strength. I would not buy 18s in intelligence and wisdom. Your spell levels will be far enough behind to where trying to buff the DCs with ability scores is a losing battle. I'd concentrate on cleric self-buff and party-buff spells, magus no-save damage spells, and divinations.

At level 20, you'll have level 7 cleric spells and level 6 magus spells, meaning that you only need wisdom 17 and intelligence 16 to cast those spells. I'd recommend buying 14 int/14 wis and look for a +4/+4 headband.

If you're building this for flavor or character, go for it. Also, having a character with a wide variety of abilities can be fun, or just what some groups need. I would expect it, though, to be less effective than a level 20 cleric or level 20 magus. You basically spend 7 levels developing a magus, then throw the brakes on for 3 levels do develop a cleric, and then give up progression of all features from both classes except for the spellcasting progression of both. And, honestly, that's where the magus gets a lot of its power: Things like arcane pool, ability to cast in more kinds of armor, (although 7 is pretty good for this.) and improvements to previously-acquired class features. And, of course, considering the cleric side of things you give up domain abilities and channel dice - but those are a much less important part of the cleric than features are to a magus.

All that having been said, I'd choose domains that give you basically the best of their domain power at level 1 and high-quality spells.

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Axebeard!

In looking at the Magus abilities above 7th level it looks like I'm going to give up a lot in the way of melee combat for a much larger spell progression. If starting from level one, I see this as being very difficult in the beginning. Levels 4-7 would be REALLY painful.


Helaman wrote:

IF you can get this character to higher level its the ULTIMATE gish. Magic is your 'female canine'... you can cast whatever you need, when you need and you can still fight OK.

That said this character really only works at the upper end of levels and if your campaign is low level it isnt gonna work, and if its likely to top out around 12th (PFS) to 14th level then its gonna be a lot of pain for not a lot of time of being in your preferred Zone.

In a pre-gen (start at 8th level etc) it is a pretty decent and fun approach because you avoid the growth stage.

This is going to be a homebrew starting at around level 7. Maybe I can get the GM to push it to level 8 ;)

But thanks for all the suggestions.

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