How to deal with Ring of Blinking, PC uses it continously.


Rules Questions

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Axl, yeah, it is weird he has been active in a thread that isn't a deletion or lock. Nice to see :D

- Gauss

Sovereign Court

Ross Byers wrote:
El Baron de los Banditos wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Red-Assassin wrote:
I can't speak for snig. I am thinking the 50% miss chance is from the creature blinking ethearly. with incorp preventing non magic weapons from hitting. This also makes the user immune to crits, fortification 100%.
Why would the user be immune to crits?
I think part of being incorporeal is that a weapon must be Ghost Touch or have some other method of getting special text to crit incorporeal creatures (like those things my group missed in HoH.) I could be wrong, though, as this hasn't been a major issue for us since then and didn't bother to double-check it, as we simply channeled the ectoplasm out of everything.
The user is only ethereal half of the time. The other half, he can be struck and damaged normally.

Phone I'm looking this all up on is dying, so my accuracy will be even farther off than normal. I was only talking about that half-time sequence. Stupid reading comprehension. Anyways...

I'm not even sure a creature gets crit immunity then. The Incorporeal subtype gets immunity, but not the glossary definition (which is what the spell refers to.)


Well I would assume the incorp would be added in addition to ethreal.

Ross I guess there are two outcomes, as he blinks in he now longer is ethereal and looses incorpreal.

Or

He blinks in and is still incorpreal, which would allow him to do most of the abilities walking through solid objects fall for half speed.

A miss chance based on etheral sounds fine but mechanically allot of effects would infact still be reduced to half, save force damage. This also leads to a double effect on spells. Let's say someone hits him with a scorching ray, he hits the miss chance the target isn't ethereal. Damage would then be either full damage or half if he is incorporeal.

There really isn't a good mechanic for this the spell is quite mechanically diverse. Some of the effects seam to overlap each other.

For instance if this creature walks through a magical wall of fire.
Would he take full damage, or would it be 1/2 from incorp. Could he try to move through it with shunting rules, if he caught fire with the oracles fire ability how would on going damage occur.

Just some thoughts this spell is in my opinion better than displacement allow with the upgrade in mechanics it seams it should be a higher level.


In a game that isnt PFS I would suggest ignoring the incorporeal aspect of Blink since James Jacobs stated that is a relic and needs to be removed. That just leaves the miss chance and normal ethereal vulnerabilities (force, abjuration, and anything that specifically hits ethereal creatures).

- Gauss


Yeah I actually learned allot from this post. I will just go with the idea that when a target blinks in the creature looses incorp. I think Blink could use a bit of trimming.


The problem is that while ethereal they are not supposed to have the incorporeal vulnerabilities (ie: magic weapons, ghost touch, spells @ 50% damage or miss chance).

Blink should have one effect...50% miss chance (20% if you can see them or are ethereal, 0% if you have some means of striking ethereal creatures and can see them).

- Gauss


I just read this whole thread, and I'm very confused by what the problem is. To me, blink has a very specific list of things it does. I'll take it paragraph by paragraph.

Blink wrote:
You “blink” quickly back and forth between the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane and look as though you're winking in and out of reality at random. Blink has several effects, as follows.

Description. Move along. Nothing to see here.

Quote:

Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since you're ethereal and not merely invisible. If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment).

If the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is also only 20%. (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.) Likewise, your own attacks have a 20% miss chance, since you sometimes go ethereal just as you are about to strike.

Physical attacks on you have 50% chance to miss. This is not total concealment, although it provides the same bonus. It's just 50% chance that you're not there when they attack. If they can see invisible creatures, or strike ethereal creatures, it's 20%. If both, then you get nothing. The only things that can hit an ethereal creature are those that specifically say that they can, and I know of nothing that lets you attack ethereal opponents without crossing into the ethereal plane yourself. You miss on 20% of your attacks.

Quote:
Any individually targeted spell has a 50% chance to fail against you while you're blinking unless your attacker can target invisible, ethereal creatures. Your own spells have a 20% chance to activate just as you go ethereal, in which case they typically do not affect the Material Plane (but they might affect targets on the Ethereal Plane).

Same as above, except a spell modified with Ectoplasmic Spell, will work (if you target it right). Your spells have 20% chance to fail. This is regardless of whether they're buffs, debuffs, damage spells, or save-or-suck spells. 1-out-of-5 chance of outright failure (unless it's a self-buff). That's just as likely as with mithril chainmail, or a regular chain shirt. Ouch.

Quote:
While blinking, you take only half damage from area attacks (but full damage from those that extend onto the Ethereal Plane). Although you are only partially visible, you are not considered invisible and targets retain their Dexterity bonus to AC against your attacks. You do receive a +2 bonus on attack rolls made against enemies that cannot see invisible creatures.

You get some resistance to area spells, and some of the benefits of being invisible.

Quote:
You take only half damage from falling, since you fall only while you are material.

Straight-forward enough.

Quote:
While blinking, you can step through (but not see through) solid objects. For each 5 feet of solid material you walk through, there is a 50% chance that you become material. If this occurs, you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet so traveled.

Likewise.

Quote:
Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures. You interact with ethereal creatures roughly the same way you interact with material ones.

All these defenses and drawbacks apply agains the phase spider waiting in ambush along with the rogue trying to gank you.

Quote:

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.

An ethereal creature can see and hear the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and insubstantial. Sight and hearing on the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect you normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane. Treat other ethereal creatures and objects as material.

This is quoted directly from the ethereal jaunt spell. Everything in it only applies to the 50% of the time that you're on the ethereal plane.


Ross Byers wrote:
El Baron de los Banditos wrote:
Ross Byers wrote:
Red-Assassin wrote:
I can't speak for snig. I am thinking the 50% miss chance is from the creature blinking ethearly. with incorp preventing non magic weapons from hitting. This also makes the user immune to crits, fortification 100%.
Why would the user be immune to crits?
I think part of being incorporeal is that a weapon must be Ghost Touch or have some other method of getting special text to crit incorporeal creatures (like those things my group missed in HoH.) I could be wrong, though, as this hasn't been a major issue for us since then and didn't bother to double-check it, as we simply channeled the ectoplasm out of everything.

The user is only ethereal half of the time. The other half, he can be struck and damaged normally.

It's a 3rd level spell: it supposed to be about as good as displacement. Not give a laundry-list of immunities with extra benefits piled on top.

So, any spell that makes me "ethereal" also gives me the ability to fly because I am "not of this earth"? PURE AWESOME!!


Bobson wrote:
This is quoted directly from the ethereal jaunt spell. Everything in it only applies to the 50% of the time that you're on the ethereal plane.

Bobson is absolutely right. So you could fly with Blink when you are ethereal, but that would only be 50% of the time. The other 50% would be spent falling back to the ground.

I would probably run this the same as moving through a solid object. You would have a 50% for every 5' moved up of returning to the Material Plane and plummeting back to earth.


Bobson, it is not a direct quote from the ethereal jaunt spell. Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal, ethereal jaunt does not. Incorporeality has its own rules.

James Jacobs has stated that blink is in error that ethereal creatures are not supposed to be incorporeal.

Incorporeality makes the issue very confusing.

Blink without incorporeal: 50% miss chance. 20% if you can see the target. 0% if you can see and harm the target with force effects, abjurations and ectoplasmic spells.

Blink with incorporeal: 50% miss chance. 20% if you can see the target. 0% if you can see and harm the target with force effects, abjurations, ectoplasmic spells, Ghost touch weapons. AND magic weapons and other spells can do half damage even if you miss the 20%.

Blink with incorporeal confuses the issue greatly and according to James Jacobs is not the intent.

- Gauss

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

I really don't see what the fuss is about.

PRD: Blink wrote:
Blink has several effects, as follows.

Translation: Exactly what it says on the tin. What you see is what you get.

PRD:Blink wrote:
Physical attacks against you have a 50% miss chance, and the Blind-Fight feat doesn't help opponents, since you're ethereal and not merely invisible.

ANY PHYSICAL ATTACK has a 50% miss chance, Blind-Fight does not work. Doesn't matter if the weapon is Ghost Touch, the Tarrasque's claw, or a commoner's unarmed strike. 50%.

PRD:Blink wrote:
If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment).

What does that mean? The place to go for ethereal definitions is ethereal jaunt, but they've reproduced the text in the blink description itself:

PRD:Blink wrote:
Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa.

So if you are attacking with a force effect or abjuration, your miss chance goes down to 20%, exactly as if you had concealment. Simple enough.

PRD:Blink wrote:
If the attacker can see invisible creatures, the miss chance is also only 20%. (For an attacker who can both see and strike ethereal creatures, there is no miss chance.)

So for a alchemist with see invisiblity up and attacking with a force bomb would have no miss chance from blink.

The rest is pretty self explanatory until you get to the end, where, as I've said before lifts passages from ethereal jaunt.

PRD:Blink wrote:

An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.

An ethereal creature can see and hear the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and insubstantial. Sight and hearing on the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect you normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane. Treat other ethereal creatures and objects as material.

This is where the issues come up... but keep in mind:

PRD:Blink wrote:
Since you spend about half your time on the Ethereal Plane, you can see and even attack ethereal creatures. You interact with ethereal creatures roughly the same way you interact with material ones.

You are only ethereal half the time. Not one round material, one round ethereal; flickering between planes of existence like a strobe light. The fact that you are ethereal confers *no additional benefit* other than what is enumerated in the spell text above.

NINJA'D by Bobson


For those that do not quite understand I will provide an example:

I cast Scorching Ray against a creature that has blink (half the time they are on the ethereal plane). IF blink grants incorporeality with all the rules that includes then that spell will do half damage to incorporeal+ethereal creatures.

Example:
I cast Scorching Ray against three creatures that I can see. Two have blink and the other is ethereal. Assume the attack rolls are all 20s.
Creature 1 using blink I roll the 20% miss chance and fail. Scorching Ray does half damage to a creature that is ethereal AND incorporeal.
Creature 2 using blink I roll the 20% miss chance and succeed. Scorching Ray damages normally.
Creature 3 using ethereal jaunt I miss it completely and do zero damage because ethereal jaunt does not include language of being incorporeal.

Mind you, this is an example just to show the problem. James Jacobs has already stated that blink is not supposed to include 'incorporeal'. However, until a FAQ comes out this is exactly what will happen in certain games that follows the rules exactly.

Before someone says 'but only Force and Abjurations affect ethereal creatures' the wording gives a very open ended statement: "Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane."

Without the removal of incorporeal from blink that open ended statement will mean that you refer to incorporeal to determine what affects ethereal AND incorporeal creatures.

- Gauss

P.S. please hit the FAQ button on the thread I started regarding Ethereal creatures, Incorporeal or not?

Edited to correct the spell (was Fireball, a spell that already does 50% against blink targets, now it is Scorching Ray).


Ignoring bad writing that could be clear and upfront about what conditions you have at what times, the only thing un-clear to me is how to handle those cases when the Miss-Chance drops, specifically See Invisibility. If you can See Invisible, but can't 'affect Ethereal normally' you have only a 20% Miss Chance... Now even though Blink doesn't ACTUALLY SAY DIRECTLY SAY SO (which is the main thing that should be Errata'd) we can understand that you are Ethereal 50% of the time (determined randomly via Miss Chance for any action which may potentially affect you).

In other words, you know have a 50% chance of hitting them normally (when they are not Etherreal), 20% cHANCE OF mISSING THEM (when they are Ethereal), and 30% chance of hitting them WHEN THEY ARE ETHEREAL - In the last case, we now would need to apply the normal effects of Ethereal/Incorporeal (which goes with Ethereal), e.g. Immunity to non-Magic Attacks, and Half Damage from any other attacks (i.e. from magic attacks). I would definitely say that the latter part is not OBVIOUS to any reader of the spell, and definitely falls under the concept of 'some additional effect other than what is enumarated in the spell' that SirGeshko mentions above.

That case of See Invisibility and the 30% chance of hitting the target when it is implicitly Ethereal (with associated Immunities/Damage Halving) is the major one that should be cleared up, beyond wording changes to more directly convey that the Blinker is Ethereal only 50% of the time.


Gauss wrote:
Without the removal of incorporeal from blink that open ended statement will mean that you refer to incorporeal to determine what affects ethereal AND incorporeal creatures.

Right, and there's the problem there... Especially if one is supposed to think that Ghost Touch, et al, DON'T affect Ethereal Creatures (whose stats are dependent on Incorporeal... even though they aren't Incorporeal?) I think some info in Incorporeal that is meant to apply to Ethereal needs to actually be copied over to Ethereal so you don't have to cross-reference the two concepts that aren't meant to be so closely related.


Gauss wrote:
Bobson, it is not a direct quote from the ethereal jaunt spell. Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal, ethereal jaunt does not. Incorporeality has its own rules.

Sure it is. I've bolded the section that appears to be word-for-word identical between the two spells.

Ethereal Jaunt wrote:

You become ethereal, along with your equipment. For the duration of the spell, you are in the Ethereal Plane, which overlaps the Material Plane. When the spell expires, you return to material existence.

An ethereal creature is invisible, insubstantial, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down, albeit at half normal speed. As an insubstantial creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures. An ethereal creature can see and hear on the Material Plane, but everything looks gray and ephemeral. Sight and hearing onto the Material Plane are limited to 60 feet.

Force effects and abjurations affect an ethereal creature normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, but not vice versa. An ethereal creature can't attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Certain material creatures or objects have attacks or effects that work on the Ethereal Plane.

Treat other ethereal creatures and ethereal objects as if they were material.

If you end the spell and become material while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that you so travel.

Quote:


Incorporeality makes the issue very confusing.

Blink without incorporeal: 50% miss chance. 20% if you can see the target. 0% if you can see and harm the target with force effects, abjurations and ectoplasmic spells.

Blink with incorporeal: 50% miss chance. 20% if you can see the target. 0% if you can see and harm the target with force effects, abjurations, ectoplasmic spells, Ghost touch weapons. AND magic weapons and other spells can do half damage even if you miss the 20%.

Blink with incorporeal confuses the issue greatly and according to James Jacobs is not the intent.

You're misreading the spell.

Blink: 50% miss chance from weapons, which becomes 20% if you can see them or attack cross-dimensions (which nothing I've found can). 0% if you can do both. In addition, 50% chance to negate any spell, unless it is cross-dimension. Force effects have nothing to do with it.

You're not incorporeal when you're not blinked out. When you are blinked out, they've already missed unless they're hitting you with an ectoplasmic spell (in which case you take full damage).

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Bobson wrote:
Gauss wrote:
Bobson, it is not a direct quote from the ethereal jaunt spell. Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal, ethereal jaunt does not. Incorporeality has its own rules.
Sure it is. I've bolded the section that appears to be word-for-word identical between the two spells.

Check the sixth word of the part you bolded, in both texts.


Bobson, they missed you because you are on the ethereal plane. We agree on this. But if you are incorporeal and on the ethereal plane then that means incorporeal vulnerabilities kick in. Therein lies the problem. Even James Jacobs said the problem exists and needs to be rectified. I am unsure why you don't see it.

- Gauss

P.S. you are correct about my use of fireball being an incorrect application for my example. Use Scorching Ray instead (3 beams) for the spell.


I think the key is the difference between the Blink and Ethereal Jaunt spells.

Ethereal Jaunut says "insubstantial".

Blink says "incorporeal", which I think is a typo (from what James Jacobs was quoted as saying).

In any case, Blink is mostly about generating a 50% miss chance.

A miss is a miss, and a hit is a hit. Don't worry about applying the icorporeality rules to the misses, as it's probably a typo. In any case, applying the incorporeality seems to lower the power of the spell, not raise it, because it gives certain folks a "second chance" to avoid the miss. Why create more work for yourself? But again, I think this is a typo. You are not incorporeal, you're insubstantial.

For hits, you were fully material at the point of contact, tag your it, no other rules need apply.

The nature of the blink miss chance foils blindfighting, but can be partially or fully bypassed by combinations of seeing invisible or using force, abjuration or ectoplasmic.

You get other bennies like +2 to hit due to your blinky concealment, and 50% on falling or area damage.

You can do the walk through walls thingy, but it's risky over long distances and you will probably take damage on any trips over 5 feet. Don't bother unless you're desperate.

Also, as the caster level of the ring is 7, the Blink last for 7 rounds, and then the character has to use another standard action to start blinking again. So it's inaccurate to say the PC uses it continuously. At most, he's using it 87.5% of the time.


Exactly Michael F. But there is also the rub: what qualifies someone to attack ethereal targets. If incorporeal qualifies someone then they can drop the % down to zero. It opens the door to alot that was not the intent. Thus it needs to be FAQ'd. - Gauss


But to go back to the initial question (rather than indulge in debate about the spell; on-topic but tangential): Dimensional Anchor. That's how to deal with a Ring of Blinking...

EDIT: Preferably delivered via an Arcane Archer's Imbue Arrow ability...


Gauss wrote:
Bobson, they missed you because you are on the ethereal plane. We agree on this. But if you are incorporeal and on the ethereal plane then that means incorporeal vulnerabilities kick in.

If there's some attack that still affects the target even though it missed. (?)

Other than that, there is just the case of See Invisibility, which has a 30% chance to hit the target even though it is Ethereal/Incorporeal, thus the Blinker is Immune to the attack unless it is magical, and if it is magical, the attack only does half damage.


Quandry some examples (assuming I don't screw them up like I did my earlier fireball turned scorching ray example).

All examples assume I have see invisibility. Blink without incorporeality assumes the spell has been errata'd.

Example 1:
I have a ghost touch weapon (affects incorporeal, says nothing about ethereal).
Blink with incorporeality I have a 0% miss chance for normal damage.
Blink without incorporeality I have a 20% miss chance for normal damage.

Example 2:
I have a +1 magic weapon (affects incorporeal for half damage, otherwise should not affect ethereal).
Blink with incorporeality: I have a 0% miss chance and do half damage. Question: if I roll the 20% can I do normal damage if I beat the 20%?
Blink without incorporeality: I have a 20% miss chance and do normal damage.

Example 3:
I am using scorching ray (incorporeal for half damage).
Blink with incorporeality: I have a 0% miss chance and do half damage. Question: if I roll the 20% can I do normal damage if I beat the 20%?
Blink without incorporeality: I have a 20% miss chance and do normal damage.

Simply put: this is why the errata is needed. In my games I won't be running it with incorporeality since James Jacobs clearly stated it is not the intent.

- Gauss


Just gonna throw a few things out there that I'd do if it bothered me, but I've never seen anyone willing to use Blink before, but it only took me a second to read the spell to build a decent counter,

First Dimensional Anchor just shuts this spell down, he stops Blinking for the duration of this spell it's only 4th level spell.

Second Wall of Force is just fun to trap anyone inside of it and it's a 5th level spell.

Also any spell with the force desciptor (Magic Missile, Spiritual Weapon, etc anyone that is ethereal themselves can hurt him and also Ghost Touch weapons (Ghosts are also ethereal monsters)

If your player is a caster he has a 20% miss chance with all of his spells, and if your player is a melee he has a 20% miss chance with all of his physical attacks.

This is to easy to beat.


Dimensional Anchor requires an attack roll. Thus a miss chance exists.

In Pathfinder, Ghost Touch weapons cannot strike ethereal. (Note: This assumes that they remove the incorporeal wording from blink to bring it into line with Ethereal Jaunt.)

James Jacobs was quite clear that ethereal and incorporeal are not the same thing. He said they wanted to split them up. He also stated specifically that they removed any etherealness from ghosts.

- Gauss


Dimensional Anchor is an Abjuratioin spell there is no miss chance read the first line on bottom paragraph.


8 Red Wizards, That is not entirely accurate as there is remains a 20% miss chance for the concealment unless the caster of dimensional anchor also can see invisibility. The first line of the bottom paragraph does not negate the miss chance from the invisibility-like effect.

- Gauss


Gauss, First line on bottom paragraph says "Force effects and abjurations affect you normally. Their effects extend onto the Ethereal Plane from the material plane, but not Ethereal Plane to Material plane." Since Blink buffed players go to Ethereal Plane and back and Dimensional Anchor is an abjuration spell and can target players on Ethereal Plane, because in that bottom paragraph in Blink says so than it does not take a miss chance, because the as per the spell in that bottom paragraph "Force effects and abjurations affect you normally." Force spells don't have a miss chance either.

Also do you think Force spells need to roll a miss chance? if you say yes you haven't read the spell at all.

If you still think otherwise here is the Definition of "Normally"

nor·mal·ly/ˈnôrməlē/
Adverb:
1) Under normal or usual conditions; as a rule.
2) In a normal manner; in the usual way.

if you disagree with the definition of "normally" could you tell me what Normally means so we could complete that last paragraph in the blink spell.


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The effects affect you normally, that doesnt mean the attack rolls do. And if a force effect has an attack roll it still suffers from concealment. The miss chance has two components: concealment and ethereal. Force effects and abjuration bypass the ethereal normally. They do not bypass concealment from invisibility. Thus a 20% miss chance remains if there is an attack roll unless the caster can see invisible creatures.

- Gauss


Gauss, man, you are looking at this totally the wrong way. You seem to be applying each rule for ethereal and incorporeal creatures in your examples individually instead of looking at the whole picture and how they interact together.

First understand this: Being Ethereal is merely the state of being on the Ethereal Plane. It is extremely difficult to interact with creatures on the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane and vice versa.

Incorporeal creatures can travel to other planes- including the Ethereal Plane. When an incorporeal creature goes Ethereal, it is still a challenge to interact with it from the Material Plane. Just like any other creature.

Looking specifically at Blink (just RAW right now), you would never be incorporeal without also being on the Ethereal Plane. So either both states fully apply, or neither state applies while under the spell's effects (dependent on the percentile roll).

Now, Scorching Ray cannot effect a creature on the Ethereal Plane if it is cast from the Material. It doesn't matter how the creature would react to the spell if it cannot reach him. Does it matter if the targeted creature has spell resistance, or a fire vulnerability, or only takes 1/2 damage from magic attacks? Not in the slightest. It can't cross over.

Your whole argument seems to boil down to, "Because incorporeal creatures take half damage from magical attacks, they still take damage from spells that can't even reach their current plane of existence."

Do you also think an incorporeal creature would take 1/2 damage from a Scorching Ray if a Wall of Force was in the way? It's pretty much the same thing. A Scorching Ray can't pass over to another plane, just like it can't pass through a Wall of Force. It doesn't matter whether the target is incorporeal or not.

The only other option would be if you believe that being incorporeal allows you to simultaneously be on multiple planes. But that opens a huge can of worms that I think you'll find not many people agree with.


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Merkatz, I happen to agree with you but the RAW doesn't support this. Even James Jacobs said that the incorporeal statement in the Blink spell is a problem. I have only the rules to go by and the rules state that certain material effects (beyond Force and abjurations) can affect Ethereal creatures without stating what those are. But elsewhere in blink it says that the subject of blink is incorporeal.

You and I know that isn't what they intended. But that is exactly what it says. And apparently, enough people wonder about this that I've gotten at least 10 FAQ hits on my thread asking for a FAQ on this topic.

I stated several times I was playing devil's advocate here. My personal view is the same as yours. But the inclusion of 'incorporeal' in the spell description screws that view up.

No, I do not think they would take damage if a Wall of Force was in the way. This is about the spell's internal consistency.

And yes, I do think that if the incorporeal wording were allowed to stand it would be a huge freaking can of worms.

Please, read my entire body of work in this thread and in the thread I linked in this thread. You will see I have been only playing devil's advocate.

- Gauss

P.S. Incorporeal creatures can NOT go ethereal (without a spell or spell-like ability to do so). That is a relic of 3.5 that James Jacobs specifically stated they have worked to remove.


Jiggy wrote:
Bobson wrote:
Gauss wrote:
Bobson, it is not a direct quote from the ethereal jaunt spell. Blink states that ethereal creatures are incorporeal, ethereal jaunt does not. Incorporeality has its own rules.
Sure it is. I've bolded the section that appears to be word-for-word identical between the two spells.
Check the sixth word of the part you bolded, in both texts.

You're right. I entirely missed that.

All things considered, I think it's pretty clear what RAI is supposed to be, but it definitely could use errata to clarify that.


Which was my point all along Bobson. By all means, click on my link (on the previous page of this thread) and hit the FAQ button. Maybe even bump the FAQ thread while you are at it.

- Gauss


Getting back to the original post for a sec, if there is a problem with a pc abusing a ring of blink then perhaps continued or excessive use of such an item could have an additional side effect, namely attracting the attention of ethereal creatures. a quick fix would be to introduce some wondering ethereal monsters that would be attacking other ethereal creatures in the area. for the pc that is (over)using blink this would mean that they would have to deal with attacks from both sides of the blink effect.

xill for instance would probably find such behavior reminicent of phase spiders and encourage or convince the xill that the pc would be included in the list of prefered hosts for incubating there young/eggs.

the chances of such a random encounter would probably increase with each additional use per day, no need to let the player know what the dangerious threashold is, though they could probably research it (in game) as a way to move them out of the munchian mind set and more into the roll playing side of things.

play it up a bit, have the xill stalk the player for awhile once the player has gotten the xill's attention. have the xill wait untill the next use of the blink ring to spring there attack as soon as the blink ring is used again. also remember that the xill would be able to remain completely on the ethereal plane too, if the player is standing near a wall the xill can use that wall on the material plane as cover from the players attacks without granting the player the same benifit.

turn the tables to discurrage such behavor/abuse.


The original poster has stated it is for PFS play - therefore no additional monsters or effects can be dragged into play.

@Gauss: I want to applaud you for staying cool even when (some / a few) people are less than polite, and stating your case again and again while yourself staying polite and being precise.

Good job at bringing this up :)


What happen with spells like confusion?

They are not physical, non targeted (it is a burst). How does blink affect them?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If Dimensional Anchor used against a creature under the effect of a Blink spell is there a 20% chance that the Blinking creature is trapped on the ethereal plane?

Dimensional Anchor is a abjuration spell so it affects creatures on the ethereal plane.

Blink state that if you can see invisible creatures there is a 20% miss chance. I am assuming this miss chance is because they are on the ethereal plane.


it state the abjuration spells and force effects go into the ethereal plane from he material one.
so you can cast it -the miss for invisible is for hitting so if you need to land a hit (i believe this is a ray?) then you still might miss (if not having see invisibility on. which also show ethereal creatures).

if you hit we need to check on what plane the blinking target was when hit (50% each) and for the duration of the spell it stay there.

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