I want to play a feral hunter, but each time I start planning my build I get lost why I shouldn't just stick with a druid. I like the whole lycanthropic theme... but that flavour could also be "added" to a druid... I get the feeling I'm missing something... care to share your view? I want a sword fighting shaping character... I don't want a goliath druid or elemental druid... so those can be left out of the comparison :-) The feral hunter has its feral focus, but does it outweigh the druid abilities?
Well for one you can shapechange without having to fully take on animal form, so you can go into a hybrid wolf form while still being a sword fighting character, rather than losing all your equipment. You also get wildshape earlier than the druid. Also it helps with summoning a pact of wolves/dire wolves and such by giving them your teamwork feats + giving you extra wolves.
The animal shaman druids do give hybrid forms though. And full caster standard action summons > 6-level caster 1 round summons even with the extra animal.
At really low levels the feral hunter wins, but by level 5 my money's on the druid.
Admittedly druids are tier 1, so hunters don't really have much of a chance.
And the fact you get ranger spells and the feral focus, how does that compare in combat?
What do you mean tier 1? A core class?
And the fact you get ranger spells and the feral focus, how does that compare in combat?
Ranger spells help a bit (Like the one that increases the size of your weapon for the purpose of damage), and feral focus is a cool buff that can constantly be on allowing you to go lycanthrope hybrid form at-will, so you'll be better in melee probably, but the druid will have things like evocations and battlefield control magic.
What do you mean tier 1? A core class?
Overtime people have compared classes when it comes to power and versatility, and ranked them. Tier 1 (the most versatile and powerful) are classes like Cleric, Druid, Shaman (I think), Witch and Wizard. Because they can basically do any role in the game more powerfully than most other classes, and change what role they want to do every day.
Hunter on the otherhand is tier 3, it can do a decent amount of things so that you always have something you can do, but you cannot change your character will be really good at one thing that you cannot change in a short time.
class tiers. Tier 1 classes have multiple ways to break the game.
Ranger spells is some extra or early spells (e.g. delay poison at level 1) which may sometimes matter but usually don't.
Feral focus is something they get which may actually matter if you suddenly find yourself needing evasion or something, and quietly buffs the character with effectively one extra magic item. It's not big enough to breach the gap, but it is nice.
The big thing you are missing is that your animal focuses no longer have a duration limit. This means that at 8th level you gain two effectively permanent bonuses. These bonuses scale with level so at 16th level you get effectively +6 to two physical stats. You can also change focus as often as you want.
In Physical combat the feral hunter is going to be tougher than the druid. When not in wild shape he can use better weapons and does not have to worry about metal armor. Throw in a few ranger spells and early access to some spells due to rangers getting them early and he will physically be able to beat the druid hands down.
@Mysterious Stranger: As I said, it quietly replaces a magic item. It's not that a big deal though; assuming you'd get a belt of some kind anyway it'd generally boost your second-favorite and third-favorite physical stats. By level 16 it's not even that, you can afford a belt of physical might +6 and a +2 ioun stone (in the one example I have to hand) quite easily.
Animal focus can give you more than just stats. While the stats are the most useful thing in combat you can also gain Darkvision and blind sense, +8 to perception, acrobatics, climb, swim or stealth, improved evasion, +6 bonus to attack on AC vs attack of opportunities, +20 to land speed, and scent.
You can also change out what you use as needed. There is no limit to how often you can change your focuses, and no duration limit.
A belt of physical perfections goes for 144,00 g.p., a ring of evasion goes for 25,000 g.p., a ring of improved climbing goes for 10,000 g.p., a ring of improved swimming goes for 10,000 g.p, googles of the night go for 12,000 g.p. eyes of the eagle go for 2,500 g.p., boots of striding and springing go for 5,500 g.p., improved shadow adds 15,00 g.p. to the cost of your armor. That is about 224,000 g.p. of magic items. It also does not include blind sense, scent or the bonus on attack of opportunities, or factor in improved evasion. Now a 16th level character could afford all that but would be left with 91,000 g.p. to purchase the rest of his equipment.
Obviously if you purchased all the magic items you would be able to use them all at once. Most of the time you don’t need all the abilities at the same time, but having them when you need them is very useful. The feral hunter will be tougher in combat partially because instead of spending for these items he can spend it on other things. Not needing to purchase stat boosting belts leaves a lot of gold for other things. Now maybe I can afford the +5 wild breastplate, and spend significantly more on my weapon.
All character resources are limited that includes gold. What you need to do is to utilize your resources wisely. The hunters focus allows a great deal of flexibility and that is worth something. I am not saying that the hunter is better than the druid, but rather different. It really depends on what the player wants. To be a sword wielding shape shifter this archetype allows him to do this better than a druid. If he wants a character that fights in animal form the druid is the better choice. Also there is nothing preventing him from spending the feat for heavy armor and fighting in full plate. He could even get wild full plate without having to use dragon hide armor.
Personally Feral Hunter exists for games in which Tier 1 classes are banned.
The rules bloat, and additions pathfinder made, should scramble the tiers.
For someone that knows how to strategically move and places themselves on the board the feral hunter amplifies that ability to an insane degree.
It offers you a unique way to play a shape shifter pack fighter.
That alone is reason to be it.
Why? ...maybe your GM has 3.5 Codzilla PTSD.
I want to play a feral hunter, but each time I start planning my build I get lost why I shouldn't just stick with a druid. I like the whole lycanthropic theme... but that flavour could also be "added" to a druid... I get the feeling I'm missing something... care to share your view? I want a sword fighting shaping character... I don't want a goliath druid or elemental druid... so those can be left out of the comparison :-) The feral hunter has its feral focus, but does it outweigh the druid abilities?
My Problem is more: Why play a feral hunter when you can just play a hunter without a pet? At least at lower levels the basic hunter wins out in my opinion.
Hunter with no pet gets the option to cast summoning spells with durations of 1min/round from level 1 on, the feral hunter has to wait 'till level 6.
Thanks all for the opinions!! I'm going working out my feral vs Druid ranger builds... Leaning more to feral at this moment :-)
why don't we drop the idea of classes having tiers and just play what ever you want
why don't we drop the idea of classes having tiers and just play what ever you want
We don't drop the idea of classes having tiers because it is useful for some forms of analysis. Anyone can still play whatever they want, whether they agree with the idea of tiers or not. The two things have nothing to do with each other.
why don't we drop the idea of classes having tiers and just play what ever you wantWe don't drop the idea of classes having tiers because it is useful for some forms of analysis. Anyone can still play whatever they want, whether they agree with the idea of tiers or not. The two things have nothing to do with each other.
Depends on how people discuss the issue. A lot of tier-based discussion can be polarizing (it's already crept into this very thread) and, frankly, that gets depressing.
Look I can hop 10 feet.
I can hop 15.
Look I can carry 100 pounds.
I can do 150.
Look I can wear metal armor.
You got me there I can only wear dragon armor.
This is what tiers boil down to. If you have a concept a higher tier is likely to do the concept better than a lower tier would.
Another cool thing about feral hunter is that you still get to use Mask of Giants, a magical item that let's you use giant shape. This gets you the highly coveted regeneration for hours per level!!!
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It's a shame Feral Hunter trades out the teamwork feat shenanigans, since that's been the major differentiating point besides the spellcasting differences for the hunter. Those teamwork shenanigans with your animal companion make the druid green(er) with envy...
Feral Hunter has the teamwork feat shenanigans, but they apply to summoned creatures instead of an animal companion. You don't get as many team work feats, but because you share them with more creatures, and you don't even need to be in melee with them if you don't want to.