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Here is the latest:
Zen Weaponmaster
A master of blade, club or halbred, these men and women train to wield weapons as an extension of themselves. Some choose to use wield two weapons, or a single blade, or even pole-arms.
Regardless, in combat they are all equally deadly.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Zen weaponmasters are proficient with their chosen weapon. The zen weaponmaster monk chooses any one simple, martial or exotic weapon, and this becomes their chosen weapon. This is in addition to their normal weapon proficiencies.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a zen weaponmaster can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action, but only when using his chosen weapon. He may not use his unarmed strikes or any other weapon.
A zen weaponmaster’s flurry of blows otherwise functions as normal for a monk of his level, with the exception that he may use all of his flurry attacks with a single weapon.
When using flurry of blows, the zen weaponmaster must be using a melee weapon with which he has the Weapon Focus feat. A zen weaponmaster applies his Strength bonus (not ½ Strength bonus on offhand attacks) on all damage rolls made with flurry of blows, even if he is using a weapon two-handed (not 1 ½ Strength bonus).
Bonus Feats: At first level, a zen weaponmaster gains Weapon Focus for their chosen weapon as a bonus feat.
All other zen weaponmaster’s bonus feats must be taken from the following list: Combat expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus.
At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Cleave, Improved Disarm, Improved Sunder, Mobility, Vital Strike and Weapon Specialization.
At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Greater Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Spring attack, Two weapon rend* and Two Weapon Defense*.
A zen weaponmaster monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. These feats replace the monk’s normal bonus feats.
Perfect Strike (Ex): At 1st level, a zen weaponmaster gains Perfect Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A zen weaponmaster can only use Perfect Strike with his chosen weapon. At 10th level, the monk can roll his attack roll three times and take the highest result. If one of these rolls is a critical threat, the monk must choose one of his other two rolls to use as his confirmation roll. This ability replaces Stunning Fist.
Ki Weapon (Su): At 5th level, a zen weaponmaster may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to change the damage dice of his chosen weapon to that of his unarmed strikes. This lasts
until the start of his next turn. For example, a Medium zen weaponmaster’s shortsword normally deals 1d6 damage; using this ability, his shortsword deals 1d8 damage until the start of his next
turn. This ability replaces purity of body.
Dance of Blows (Ex): At 7th level, while flurrying, a zen weaponmaster may take a 5' step between each attack, up to half his movement. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
At 14th level he may move up to half his movement and still use flurry of blows. This ability replaces wholeness of body.
Zen strike (Su): At 11th level, a zen weaponmaster may hit targets that he might otherwise miss. By spending 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action, the zen weaponmaster can ignore concealment. By spending 2 points, he can ignore total concealment or cover. By spending 3 points, he can ignore total cover. These effects last for 1 round. This ability replaces diamond body.
Ki Focus weapon (Su): At 17th level, as long as he has at least 1 point of ki in his ki pool, a zen weaponmaster may treat his chosen weapons as if it was a ki focus weapon, allowing him to use his special ki attacks as if his chosen weapon were unarmed attacks. This ability replaces tongue of the sun and moon.
*These feats will work only while flurrying, as it emulate the two weapon fighting rules.
Is there already a monk archtype called the weaponmaster? I might have been thinking the Weapon Adept...
I like it. Simple, direct, easy.
Thanks, Dabbler!
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I forgot to say that in the previous thread, but this archetype should have been the Weapon Adept. Seriously, the one we have so far is gimpy.
I'll definitely use it.
Thanks!
Yeah, when I saw there would be a weapon adept archetype for monks, I was excited till I actually read it. Then after looking at the Zen Archer I remember thinking 'why didn't they just do this with swords?'
I have a player that wanted an archetype that fit this concept, so here it is.
Hmm...
Would actully like to be able to include unarmed strikes as part of a flurry...
May think more on it.
Got some feedback from Taleek:
Kryzbyn! Its been a while since you heard from me but here's the measure of the archetype so far:
I wasn't able to get a good impression of the class initially, since due to storyline tie-ins (playing curse of the crimson throne) he wasn't able to get his primary weapon (katana) until about level 4 or 5. So he was just a straight monk until then, although lacking in some things since the archetype focuses on a single weapon.
So far the combination of unarmed strikes + weapon is pretty neat, especially since I have a Lawful Good, violence as a last resort type. He's able to sunder with the sword and then deal non-lethal damage with the unarmed strikes, thereby not killing anyone. Power Attack gives him some nice oomph, and the addition of weapon focus and a decent strength means that he's actually able to hit things and make it hurt, a failing of the monk class in my opinion. And with dodge and toughness, he's actually fairly durable too.
All going pretty well so far, I think that you may've made the best Monk archetype yet!
I asked if his character was outshining the others in his party:
Heh, early on it was quite the opposite really. I couldn't connect with anything for the first 3 or 4 levels or so until he actually got his weapon. I think it's really going to shine in the next couple of levels, where his damage output will spike because of a higher strength bonus using the katana two-handed, weapon specialization, and increasing the katana's threat range.
Thanks for the feedback, Taleek! Your testing is appreciated.
I think giving increased damage die for his unarmed strikes and then letting him not use his unarmed strikes for flurries is sort of contradictory.
Honestly, would it be too broken to just have him use his unarmed damage die all the time?
I think giving increased damage die for his unarmed strikes and then letting him not use his unarmed strikes for flurries is sort of contradictory.
Honestly, would it be too broken to just have him use his unarmed damage die all the time?
Ki Weapon behaves like the Zen Archer's Ki Arrows, and not flurrying with unarmed strikes is a good way to balance out the fact that you can with the chosen weapon.
Technically, a weaponmaster isn't a martial artist.
I think giving increased damage die for his unarmed strikes and then letting him not use his unarmed strikes for flurries is sort of contradictory.
Honestly, would it be too broken to just have him use his unarmed damage die all the time?
Ki Weapon behaves like the Zen Archer's Ki Arrows, and not flurrying with unarmed strikes is a good way to balance out the fact that you can with the chosen weapon.
Technically, a weaponmaster isn't a martial artist.
But the Zen Archer can do this from a great distance, which is more powerful and also makes some sense (she has to use supernatural energy to strike as hard with an arrow as her fists), while the Zen Weaponmaster is restricted to melee for this ability and, to me, it doesn't make logical sense that the Zen Weaponmaster can by default deal more damage with his fists than with his sword unless he spends a ki point (this has always bothered me about the Monk).
I like it. For some reason it sort of reminds me of the Jet Li movie, Hero. I may just have to try it out some time.
I like it too. Maybe put it even more in line with the Zen Archer:
- weapon Focus & weapon specialisation for Evasion ("Way of the Weapon Master")
- maybe some weaker options for the Monk Bonus feat, e.g. no Power Attack (compare: Deadly Aim isn't on the list for the Zen Archer)
- may use Wisdom to hit with chosen weapon (?)
- instead of Point Blank Master: Step Up or Combat Reflexes (replaces Still Mind)
- "Dance of Blows" is probably too good to be true, especially for trading out the super crappy "Wholeness of Body" that noone cares for. Although I like it. It's like pounce without a cost (three rage powers for a barbarian) at Level 14.
- Zen Strike = perfect
- Ki Focus Weapon = perfect
I like it, but I'd restrict the "chosen weapon" to melee only. Also, Turgan's suggestions look really sound.
Wow necro thread!
Zen Weaponmaster
A master of blade, club or halbred, these men and women train to wield weapons as an extension of themselves. Some choose to use wield two weapons, or a single blade, or even pole-arms. They use their speed, mobility and weapon training with their chosen weapon to great effect
Regardless, in combat they are all equally deadly.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Zen weaponmasters are proficient with their chosen weapon. The zen weaponmaster monk chooses any one simple, martial or exotic melee weapon, and this becomes their chosen weapon. (If they choose to dual wield, both weapons must be the same.) This is in addition to their normal weapon proficiencies.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a zen weaponmaster can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action, but only when using his chosen weapon. He may not use his unarmed strikes or any other weapon.
A zen weaponmaster’s flurry of blows otherwise functions as normal for a monk of his level, with the exception that he may use all of his flurry attacks with a single weapon.
When using flurry of blows, the zen weaponmaster must be using their chosen weapon. A zen weaponmaster applies his Strength bonus (not ½ Strength bonus on offhand attacks) on all damage rolls made with flurry of blows, even if he is using a weapon two-handed (not 1 ½ Strength bonus).
Bonus Feats: At first level, a zen weaponmaster gains Weapon Focus for their chosen weapon as a bonus feat.
All other zen weaponmaster’s bonus feats must be taken from the following list: Combat expertise, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Power Attack, Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus.
At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Cleave, Improved Disarm, Improved Sunder, Mobility, Vital Strike and Weapon Specialization.
At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Greater Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Spring attack, Two weapon rend* and Two Weapon Defense*.
A zen weaponmaster monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them. These feats replace the monk’s normal bonus feats.
Perfect Strike (Ex): At 1st level, a zen weaponmaster gains Perfect Strike as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A zen weaponmaster can only use Perfect Strike with his chosen weapon. At 10th level, the monk can roll his attack roll three times and take the highest result. If one of these rolls is a critical threat, the monk must choose one of his other two rolls to use as his confirmation roll. This ability replaces Stunning Fist.
Ki Weapon (Su): At 5th level, a zen weaponmaster may spend 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action to change the damage dice of his chosen weapon to that of his unarmed strikes. This lasts
until the start of his next turn. For example, a Medium zen weaponmaster’s shortsword normally deals 1d6 damage; using this ability, his shortsword deals 1d8 damage until the start of his next
turn. This ability replaces purity of body.
Dance of Blows (Ex): At 7th level, while flurrying, a zen weaponmaster may take a 5' step between each attack, up to half his movement. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
At 14th level he may move up to half his movement and still use flurry of blows. This ability replaces wholeness of body.
Zen strike (Su): At 11th level, a zen weaponmaster may hit targets that he might otherwise miss. By spending 1 point from his ki pool as a swift action, the zen weaponmaster can ignore concealment. By spending 2 points, he can ignore total concealment or cover. By spending 3 points, he can ignore total cover. These effects last for 1 round. This ability replaces diamond body.
Ki Focus weapon (Su): At 17th level, as long as he has at least 1 point of ki in his ki pool, a zen weaponmaster may treat his chosen weapons as if it was a ki focus weapon, allowing him to use his special ki attacks as if his chosen weapon were unarmed attacks. This ability replaces tongue of the sun and moon.
*These feats will work only while flurrying, as it emulate the two weapon fighting rules.
Clarified a few things.
The chosen weapon was always intended to be melee only.
Left the flurry to be chosen weapon only.
He can still use IUS, but only with iterative BAB attacks.
I didn't think giving pounce as 14th level ability was that big of a deal, and it replaces self heals. I thought it was a good trade.
Err not pounce, but half pounce. Pounce lets you move up to full move on a charge. With this he can still only move 1/2 his move.
Now, granted for a monk, that's pretty far, but way better than allowing a monk's full move.
I like Dance of Blows, I'm going to steal that one and use it for my own campaign.
Overall, this looks really good.
I would honestly take the improved unarmed damage die away from the archetype and Apply a slightly slower progression to their chosen weapon. The current unarmed damage progression doesn't seem to be thematically appropriate.
Edit: You would need to change the wording to increase the die by one step per five levels (or whatever is more appropriate, I can't remember what unarmed progresses at without looking.).
I would honestly take the improved unarmed damage die away from the archetype and Apply a slightly slower progression to their chosen weapon. The current unarmed damage progression doesn't seem to be thematically appropriate.
Edit: You would need to change the wording to increase the die by one step per five levels (or whatever is more appropriate, I can't remember what unarmed progresses at without looking.).
that could be over the top very quickly, since this archetype gets free progression with any weapon. increased damage dice on a falcata...*shudder*. it can already do that by spending ki points, it's a scary ability because of it.
that could be over the top very quickly, since this archetype gets free progression with any weapon. increased damage dice on a falcata...*shudder*. it can already do that by spending ki points, it's a scary ability because of it.I would honestly take the improved unarmed damage die away from the archetype and Apply a slightly slower progression to their chosen weapon. The current unarmed damage progression doesn't seem to be thematically appropriate.
Edit: You would need to change the wording to increase the die by one step per five levels (or whatever is more appropriate, I can't remember what unarmed progresses at without looking.).
Meh, nothing about damage die are scary. If unarmed damage increased by static increments it would be a different story.
Anywho, as I mentioned in the above post, the idea is to get fewer die steps with the weapon than with the vanilla monk and keep unarmed at d6. The one thing that the Op is forgetting is that the zen archer will have a much larger ki pool, which will have an impact on the effectiveness of similar ki based abilities.
Why does the Zen Archer have a larger Ki pool? It's determined the same way a core monk is...
Is it because they would usually focus more on WIS?
I'm not going to have this archetype flat out trade unarmed die for weapon die damage. That's ludicrous.
Making the zen weaponmaster has to make a choice bewteen damage or number of hits (unarmed strikes at higher damage die, or FOB with chosen weapon), or burn ki points to do both. He can't do this till 5th level, and depending on his chosen weapon, may not actually benefit from this until later levels (ie. his chosen weapon is a greatsword).
This allows him to "nova" sort of, to turn on the heat where needed, instead of being a damage nightmare for GMs.
Okay. I don't think anyone will ever be choosing to take dice over another swing at full flurry if they allocate their ability scores correctly.
Just thought I would offer my analysis of the cost benefit of damage dice. In short, no biggie.
I appreciate the input, thanks!
