I'm trying to figure out what constitutes an "encounter" in terms of treasure rewards. Using Burnt Offerings as my example, I'm under the impression that the entire goblin assault in the beginning would count, and that the glass works scene would count giving the party 400 gold per. Also the catacombs of wrath would give them either 400 or 800 (depending if they leveled from last session). But then I see the "encounters" in between like Monster in the Closet, and a single goblin cannot possibly be worth 400 gold, PC class or not.
I would appreciate input on this, because to me tossing an "average" amount of coin is too vague, especially when there's no clear definition of what the Core Book considers an encounter for treasure purposes.
Thanks a lot guys. All examples and reasoning, official or your own, will be a big help.
It's not a guideline you want to follow to the letter. It's just that, a guideline.
Burnt Offerings is a little sparce on loot, unless the PCs want to strip down every goblin they come across and stumble on the hidden treasure caches throughout the adventure. I wouldnt be surprised if a character went through the entire adventure without picking up anything new.
That said, not every encounter had to award treasure. You can expect the later encounters (those with boss NPCs) to fill in the gaps that the monster in the closet and the like leave by giving much more treasure.
Hope that helps, some. I'll pop back in tommorow in case I've missed something
I understand that it's a guide line, but in this case the guide line gives no examples, so I don't even know what line it's guiding me on.
I guess if I had to narrow down my post to two questions, they would be:
1)What is the definition of an "Encounter" as used by Table 12-5 of the CRB?
2)How much total sum wealth should be collected from encounters, at each individual level, to maintain what Pathfinder considers a "balance" of xp and gold.
I really enjoyed random rolling of loot from 3.5, so that's something I was slightly disappointing about when I started Pathfinder, but given that there is fast, medium, and slow progressions, it makes sense not taking up a bunch of space with tables. I just need help translating this guide line so I can wrap my head around it.
A 1st-level goblin should have gear worth 260 gp if it has an NPC class, or 390 gp if it has a PC class (as per the "NPC Gear" table in the "Creating NPCs" section).
The "Treasure Values Per Encounter" table provides the treasure value for an encounter of CR equal to the party's level. In actuality, I use that table solely to determine treasure for monsters (since NPCs have their own table), using the "average party level" column as the monster's CR.
In printed adventures, the treasure provided is only what the adventure lists. Adventures typically skew treasure distribution, awarding some treasure in areas without an encounter to make up for treasure that isn't awarded in the encounter itself. So, each goblin should award treasure as printed in the Bestiary (if the statblock isn't complete).
I prefer to ignore the treasure per encounter entirely and focus on wealth by level. Subtract npc gear value from the overall gp value that the players should have. Use that remaining gp value to make a few treasure hordes and hand those out appropriately. That way im not stuck trying to shoehorn a treaure handout into a wolfs den or something.
|James Jacobs Creative Director|
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The definition of an "encounter" is one section of text that has a "CR" associated with it. By this definition, the attack on Sandpoint consists of three separate encounters, while the Glassworks is only one encounter (the "Against the Goblins" encounter).
When I'm developing adventures, I generally look at the adventure as a whole. I look at how many levels the PCs are expected to gain during the adventure, then compare that to the tables in the Core Rulebook that list their expected wealth gained during those levels.
I take that number, then multiply it by 4 since we assume 4-character parties.
I generally then double THAT number, resulting in about 200% the expected amount of treasure in an adventure, under the assumption that parties won't find all the treasure, that they'll break or ignore some of it, or that they'll need to spend some of it recovering from deaths and curses and negative levels and blindness and all that. I then spread that GP out throughout the adventure; this means some encounters give out no treasure and others give out what might seem like way too much treasure.
I've more or less been taking this approach from the start, and the fact that I still see complaints now and then that Pathfinder APs don't give out enough treasure and have yet to see complaints that they give out too MUCH treasure tells me that even at double the expected amount in an adventure overall... there's still a fair amount of wiggle room to add more loot if you want.
Devil.In.Mexico13, The problem with going strictly via the WBL table is that it assumes that some equipment handed out is lost through replacement and the consumables are used up.
What I do is multiply the Treasure Values per Encounter by the number of encounters required to reach a given level (usually 20). It winds up being about 20% higher than the WBL chart. That is the treasure I hand out for that level.
Of course, it isn't an exact science and I ocassionally check to see that the players are near WBL. At my player's current level (8) they have an average treasure of 37,000gp with about an average of 4,000gp of that as consumables.
|James Jacobs Creative Director|
|James Jacobs Creative Director|
James Jacobs, I love your APs...but I have had to tone down the treasure handed out in Council of Thieves. But now that I understand how you do things it makes sense why the treasure hauls are written to be so high. My group tends to go everywhere and find nearly everything.
Which is precisely what a GM should do. No two groups have the same preference in treasures, really... I actually prefer giving out even more treasure than I do in the APs as printed, so I often throw a few more items into the mix... usually things that the PCs can and will end up using rather than just selling off, though.
James Jacobs, I agree with tailoring things to your group. I do the same. I also tailor things I know they will sell so that I can control the treasure. For example, if it is an appropriate (to the bad guy) item to give out a +2 unholy weapon (32,000gp) but I know they will sell it because nobody can use it I will do so. It is the same thing as giving out a 16,000gp item they can and will use.