Lets say a Cleric with X domain spells come across a scroll of a domain spell from a Cleric with Y domain...
Now being that when it comes to casting, domain spells are classed as divine irrespective of the class spell list they came from, what is the situation of Cleric X casting the spell from the scroll of Cleric with Y domain ??
A Cleric with a divine scroll of spell Z can only use it without UMD if it's a Cleric spell or if it is a Domain spell of his.
So if he gets a divine scroll of Fireball, regardless who wrote it, he can only cast it if one of his Domains has Fireball as a domain spell (that is only the Fire Domain among the Paizo ones)
OK.... what if it is a domain spell of his but on that day he has not prepared it?
OK.... what if it is a domain spell of his but on that day he has not prepared it?
He should be able to do so
Interesting... potentially makes the Ecclesitheurge a salvageable archetype!! (Cant believe I just said that..)
Interesting... potentially makes the Ecclesitheurge a salvageable archetype!! (Cant believe I just said that..)
Ecclesitheurge rules are rather unclear, if you want to use scrolls of the "rotating" domain you're only guaranteed to be able to use them if you selected that list that day, otherwise it's up to debate though if I were the DM I'd allow it
Ecclesitheurge rules are rather unclear, if you want to use scrolls of the "rotating" domain you're only guaranteed to be able to use them if you selected that list that day, otherwise it's up to debate though if I were the DM I'd allow it
My thought was that since an Ecclesitheurge can swap through his available domains (and thus the spells that go with it) on a daily basis, this was no different than a vanilla cleric which has 2 permanently fixed domains but can only prepare 1 spell per day from a choice of those two.
The more I think about it, the more I think the entire viability of the Archetype rests on this question!
Anyone from Paizo care to weigh in ?
A Cleric with a divine scroll of spell Z can only use it without UMD if it's a Cleric spell or if it is a Domain spell of his.
So if he gets a divine scroll of Fireball, regardless who wrote it, he can only cast it if one of his Domains has Fireball as a domain spell (that is only the Fire Domain among the Paizo ones)
Nope. There is nothing that says domain spells are added to the cleric spell list. Bizarrely, this means that a cleric with the Fire domain and Scribe Scroll feat can create a scroll of Fireball she can't use (without UMD), but that's how the rules (item creation, item usage, and cleric domains) are written.
Nope. There is nothing that says domain spells are added to the cleric spell list. Bizarrely, this means that a cleric with the Fire domain and Scribe Scroll feat can create a scroll of Fireball she can't use (without UMD), but that's how the rules (item creation, item usage, and cleric domains) are written.
A recent ruling says that if a spell is added via class feature it's also added to the class list for that character.
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Yes I remember one of the Dev's making a ruling in a thread...
BUMP...Anyone from Paizo care to clear up this Ecclesitheurge grey area?
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Bump..... specifically for the Ecclesitheurge but it has implications for regular clerics too.
A vanilla cleric has 2 domains that are fixed. From those 2 he can only prepare 1 spell per day per level of spell. Can he cast a spell from a scroll from the unused domain?
They are both "his" domain but he has only prepared spells from one of them on that day and so in the normal casting sense would not be able to cast from the other domain. However, the recent clarification stated that a clerics domain spells are considered part of the class list for the character.
The Ecclesitheurge has all the domains available from his deity as "his". One of them is fixed and permanent and can be cast using regular slots, he can then choose any 2 others on a daily basis - one gaining access to the domain spells and the other, the domain powers.
Can the Ecclesitheurge cast spells from scrolls from an unused domain?
It would be good to get a final clarification for both of these situations.... lend your help with an FAQ request! :))
Bump..... specifically for the Ecclesitheurge but it has implications for regular clerics too.
A vanilla cleric has 2 domains that are fixed. From those 2 he can only prepare 1 spell per day per level of spell. Can he cast a spell from a scroll from the unused domain?
They are both "his" domain but he has only prepared spells from one of them on that day and so in the normal casting sense would not be able to cast from the other domain. However, the recent clarification stated that a clerics domain spells are considered part of the class list for the character.
Yes, both domain spells count as being on his spell list and class list. No problems using a scroll of either.
That much is clear.The Ecclesitheurge has all the domains available from his deity as "his". One of them is fixed and permanent and can be cast using regular slots, he can then choose any 2 others on a daily basis - one gaining access to the domain spells and the other, the domain powers.
Can the Ecclesitheurge cast spells from scrolls from an unused domain?
It would be good to get a final clarification for both of these situations.... lend your help with an FAQ request! :))
This is far less clear-cut.
Each day when he prepares spells, an ecclesitheurge can select a different domain granted by his deity to gain access to that domain's spell list instead of his secondary domain spell list
This sentence states that he loses access to his 2nd domain's spell list and gains access to a different one that day. 'Access' isn't defined. It appears to me to mean that losing access should mean those spells are no longer on his class list, although as a GM I'd be happy with allowing them to still be usable as scrolls, wands, etc.
A possible alternative situation to consider is a shaman (or spirit guide oracle) using the Arcane Enlightenment hex as a wandering spirit. In that case, it's pretty clear that spells that haven't been 'taken as known' that day do not count as being still on their list - but that is a much more versatile and powerful ability.
To sum up: as far as I can tell, RAW is you completely lose the spells you didn't take that day; But I'd allow it as a house rule.
Unless you are playing PFS, that should be all you need - and I doubt that you'll get any dev response.
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Scrolls are divine or arcane. If you are in PFS you can ignore this.
If not, you must have a Divine scroll of fireball.
If you have two domains, both domains spells are on your class list and you may use a scroll of a divine version of that spell without UMD.
If you are Ecclesitheurge, you can choose to use a scroll without UMD only if it is the domain you chose to gain spells from today. If you chose domain powers, then for today those spells are not on your class spell list.
Scrolls are divine or arcane. If you are in PFS you can ignore this.
Can anyone elaborate on this? Not playing PFS I don't know what is it referring to
Yes, my spirit guide oracle has to watch out for this when scribing wizard spells snagged through the Arcane Enlightenment ability. Fortunately, the party sorceror has a level of oracle so the GM has allowed her to use them.
Bit of a shame that.... so essentially an Ecclesitheurge has no real greater use for scribe scroll than a regular cleric ?
Bit of a shame that.... so essentially an Ecclesitheurge has no real greater use for scribe scroll than a regular cleric ?
A very slightly greater use, in that if he has a domain with a spell or two that he wants to be able to cast lots of times, he can make scrolls of them.
Overall, I find that clerics have a lot of use for Scribe Scroll anyway.