2-handed spear


Advice

Shadow Lodge

i have posted on this topic before but i fancy moaning a little more:

can some1 please explain the logic behind The Spear?
The Spear appears to be
2-handed
throw-able (never seen any1 chuck a spear with two hands!)
but only 5ft long made?!

also compare that with similar weapons like Javelin and longspear and shortspear and halfspear and spear with bells on etc, etc...

I think there are some PHAT flaws in the designation of weapons and sizes and stuff in Pathfinder but hey....

Thanks,
Morlaf


You don't throw it with 2 hands. You use both hands in melee. The spear is probably about 6-7 feet long which gives it a 5ft reach. A greatsword is upwards of 6 feet long as well but that only has a 5ft reach as well.


Throwing weapons are not that good actually. Longspear is usually better with reach. If it was longer it would be a longspear which is a different weapon.

Liberty's Edge

Shortspear: one-handed melee weapon, 1d6 damage, can be thrown with a range of 20 feet., 3 ft. long.
Spear: two-handed melee weapon, 1d8 damage, can be thrown with a range of 20 feet, can brace against a charging opponent, 5 ft. long.
Longspear: two-handed melee weapon, 1d8 damage, can brace against a charging opponent, has reach against an opponent, 8 ft. long.
Javelin: ranged weapon, 1d6 damage, range of 30 feet, -4 to attack if used in melee.

What is the problem?


HangarFlying wrote:

Shortspear: one-handed melee weapon, 1d6 damage, can be thrown with a range of 20 feet., 3 ft. long.

Spear: two-handed melee weapon, 1d8 damage, can be thrown with a range of 20 feet, can brace against a charging opponent, 5 ft. long.
Longspear: two-handed melee weapon, 1d8 damage, can brace against a charging opponent, has reach against an opponent, 8 ft. long.
Javelin: ranged weapon, 1d6 damage, range of 30 feet, -4 to attack if used in melee.

What is the problem?

Mainly that the spear should be a one handed weapon if you can throw it I guess..

Personally I could see a point made with an addition to the description :

The spear can be used in melee one-handed but you suffer a -2 penalty on attack rolls and it can not be used to brace against a charging opponent if you do so.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

It is an abstraction. Realistically, many larger throwing weapons require a free hand to provide proper balance and counter weight to the act of throwing. Also consider that you hold a spear in a very different way when throwing as opposed to stabbing. Throwing a spear your hand will be much further up the shaft near the head to have proper balance on the throw. The haft is largely adding heft and funneling its flight through the air to keep it straight. However if you stabbed with the same grip you'd lose out on full effectiveness of such a heavy weapon in a stabbing motion. When stabbing properly you want a two handed grip and much further down the shaft. A weapon that you spin and swing, such as staves or when striking with the butt of a spear, would have a central grip.

Basically, spears and weapons in general are much much more complicated than the rules are set up to portray. Instead the game goes for a few nods towards realism but places game enjoyment and practical usage of the rules first.

Liberty's Edge

I dont have a problem with the description or the fact that there is an implication that it is thrown one-handed but not explicitly stated as such.

Then again, while one hand might be the actual method of propulsion, the second hand is used as a guide and/or balance -hence, it is still considered two-handed for throwing, unlike the smaller shortspear which doesn't require the second hand to help guide it.

EDIT: your next question or counter point might then be "since it is being 'thrown' two-handed, would you then apply 1 1/2 strength bonus to damage"? No, you would not. The 1 1/2 strength bonus only applies to melee attacks. Thrown weapons only have the strength bonus applied.

EDIT 2: furthermore, because the spear is two-handed, you cannot throw a spear from each hand.

Dark Archive

Thrown Weapons: The same rules apply when you throw a weapon from each hand. Treat a dart or shuriken as a light weapon when used in this manner, and treat a bolas, javelin, net, or sling as a one-handed weapon.

As a DM I'd have to say that even if you found a larger javelin you still would only be using one hand and if at all you can be using this weapon the only extra damage will be from the size difference

For what you are trying to do I don't think that weapon is out yet...

Dwarven Overhead Throwing Piston Exotic
2- handed Hammer
1d10 bludgeoning
range 20ft
Crit X3

This weapon can be used as a throwing weapon with 2 hands. 1½ times strength modifier

:)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So, you want a spear, to be a shortspear?

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:
So, you want a spear, to be a shortspear?

I think what he really wants is a bastard spear -- something that can be wielded either as a short spear or a spear.

I'd agree with that, too. The little bit of spear & shield fighting I've done was with a spear >4 feet long.

I'd say make it 4 ft, 1d6 damage, 20 ft throwing range, but allow set for charge when wielding two-handed. A little more flexible, but not as good as either a short spear or spear in its particular niche.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Can you not wield a spear this way as a phalanx fighter?

Grand Lodge

I think the issue at hand is that wants a weapon that can be thrown with 2-hand to have the 1½ str modifier

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
Souphin wrote:
I think the issue at hand is that wants a weapon that can be thrown with 2-hand to have the 1½ str modifier

That only works for melee, as far as I know.

Liberty's Edge

Souphin wrote:
I think the issue at hand is that wants a weapon that can be thrown with 2-hand to have the 1½ str modifier

He would have to take the Two-Handed Thrower feat from Ultimate Combat to accomplish that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So a phalanx soldier fighter with the two-Handed thrower feat does all that he requires?

Liberty's Edge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
So a phalanx soldier fighter with the two-Handed thrower feat does all that he requires?

I think it's kind of moot. He could use a spear one-handed if he is wielding a shield, so he could throw the spear and get the strength bonus. To get the benefit of two-handed thrower, he has to use two hands. Which would mean that he would stop wielding his shield, which now means the spear requires two hands to use, which the feat requires anyways to be in effect.

The way I see it, the phalanx soldier archetype has no affect on that issue.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

He could always wear a buckler.

Shadow Lodge

what "I require" is not the point. i am just highlighting a few issues that i have with the way the weapons, their sizes, their handedness, the fact that if it is "larger than 2-handed" you cannot wield it full stop, etc etc....

finally, i think SenahBirdR gave the best answer by reminding me this is a _simulation_ of real life and approximations must be made and disbelief must always be suspended somewhat....

thanks y' all for your insightful contributions to yet another rent of mine!
:o)

Thanks,
Morlaf

Liberty's Edge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
He could always wear a buckler.

Sure, but it doesn't change anything. If he's going to use the buckler to get the AC bonus, he can't go stabbity with anything in that hand.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
HangarFlying wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
He could always wear a buckler.
Sure, but it doesn't change anything. If he's going to use the buckler to get the AC bonus, he can't go stabbity with anything in that hand.

He would still qualify.

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