Raiders of the Fever Sea: First Impressions? [spoilers]


Skull & Shackles

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Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:
Drejk wrote:

As for Isabella, make her CN so she can do the 'unstable dangerous b%&!%' thing while still being open to stealth or seduction. Hell, have her tag along like the untrustworthy Penny Cruz character in Pirates 4.

But RAW.... we can't do that.

Yes, I too was disappointed. But I like this suggestion. Would be interesting to have the author chime in and explain the NPC.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Maps, Rulebook Subscriber
Anlerran wrote:

As for Isabella, make her CN so she can do the 'unstable dangerous b%@+!' thing while still being open to stealth or seduction. Hell, have her tag along like the untrustworthy Penny Cruz character in Pirates 4.

But RAW.... we can't do that.

This ain't PFS - RAW is not an abolute requirement. I'll definitely be considering ways to keep Isabella around (although probably more as a rival than as a deadly opponent).


Anlerran wrote:
Drejk wrote:


At least one of my characters would be like "hello there, may I transcribe that from you?" *charming smile of a handsome youth* (he had a fling with Dragon Age Isablea-like mariner NPC). If she's attractive, he would be more interested in "transcribing" than the map itself (3.5 game, Vow Of Poverty from BoED)

Others would be more like charm person or *bash* to unconsciousness and copy the map. None of my current characters (and only one or two I ever played) would kill and tan the skin (which would be required to avoid spoilage and thus destruction of map).

But as Midnight Angel said... YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

Thou.
Shalt.
Not.

Repeat after me; 'this is 3rd Edition. There Will Be Blood.'

Yes, of course it's a wasted opportunity.

[...]But RAW.... we can't do that.

Dude. Seriously. There is no "can't" or "shall not" in any GM's book.

Besides, Chaotic Evil does not translate into Chaotic Evil Stupid, Chaotic Evil Suicidal. You have also:
- dying condition (you now, the one between -1 and -CON points)
- non-lethal damage
- intimidation, diplomacy and bluff
- sheer will to survive

One of the most terrifying villains the characters met was really CE [1]. But he did not spill blood. He just talked people into doing bad stuff.
Really bad stuff. Stuff that made my players go "urgh", even though they played in my games for years.

Regards,
Ruemere

[1] To be precise, it was not d20. The guy had a really nice car, too. And the players just wanted to get out of a abandoned gas station in a middle of radioactive nowhere (a dream of one of alternative near futures).


JohnF wrote:
Anlerran wrote:


But RAW.... we can't do that.
This ain't PFS - RAW is not an abolute requirement. I'll definitely be considering ways to keep Isabella around (although probably more as a rival than as a deadly opponent).

Gosh, if we played by RAW, the APs (any AP except "Crimson Throne" ) would be one-third as much fun...

Nevermind sleeping, stunning, knock-out or pinning her. And nevermind the highly idiotic idea to paint your "treasure map" on the back of an utter fool like her.... Somebody obviously watched "Cutthroat Island"


Off-topic, and just out of idle curiosity...

vikingson wrote:
Gosh, if we played by RAW, the APs (any AP except "Crimson Throne" ) would be one-third as much fun...

Why did you place CoCT as an exception? Is there any necessity to absolutely stick to the RAW in CoCT?


Midnight_Angel wrote:

Off-topic, and just out of idle curiosity...

vikingson wrote:
Gosh, if we played by RAW, the APs (any AP except "Crimson Throne" ) would be one-third as much fun...
Why did you place CoCT as an exception? Is there any necessity to absolutely stick to the RAW in CoCT?

no, because CotC was that good, IMHO the best AP ever (yet). We replaced "Stonewall Castle" with something more along our own style, the rest was just great writing with some extra sprinkles thrown in by the GM.


Really? There are posts quibbling about the hot pirate girl's teeth? People please... I'd rather the picture was perfect rather than a hag without teeth or false teeth, as is described in the adventure.

Rob McCreary wrote:
Laithoron wrote:
Is it just me or does the illustration of Isabella (really? the same name as the sexy pirate from Dragon Age 2?) have teeth when she's described as having had them all knocked out? Botched art order? Editorial mistake? Regeneration spell?
She wears false teeth.


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I’ve only read the first 2 sections so far. I really like the Squibs section. Upon reading part 2 I’m scratching my head thinking about how I can use this.

First it makes no sense the ships passing so close to pirate infested waters would be so lightly armed, and most of the encounters look like cake walks for a party of 4th and 5th level players. So, I’m adding levels to the marines and more guards onto all the merchant ships. Because this is likely a one encounter a day situation I’m going to design the ship guards to be a big challenging combat.

Also raiding the villages along the coast seems really easy so I’m adding dogs to each village and possibly a chief of some sort. Also I will add some variety with a undead village, and maybe when the ship is passing so close to land a large tribe of cannibals comes racing out on canoes to attack the ship.

Second, I’m thinking about how often the encounters should come. I’m thinking about adding shipping lanes onto the maps and in those shipping lanes ship encounters occur every few days. Outside of the shipping lanes merchant ships are virtually non-existent, and that’s where the other encounters would come into play. I’m not sure if shipping lanes are covered in the Oceans section at the end I haven’t gotten that far.

Also I agree with the previous post, quibbing about missing teeth and in another post about fish breats, seems rather silly. If you really want to quib, quib about the clothed Nereid in book 5 of kingmaker when the descirption says she is naked.


No doubt you'd find the "cheesecake" debates on these forums to be 'rather silly' too. Whatever was I thinking...

The character being drawn perfectly when they obviously aren't just because people would like to see a token 'hot pirate chick' was kind of my point.


There's clearly a bit of fanservice going on here, which isn't in itself a bad thing. They obviously put her on the cover for a reason, even though she's actually a minor NPC.

Which makes it seem all the more odd that the writer goes out of his way to say that the PCs CANNOT interact with her in any way beyond combat. If she's captured, she instantly kills herself and there's no way they can ever even talk to her. If she survives, she just attacks them again.

Sure, you can change anything you want, but we're getting back to the thing about 'fighting the written material' again. I'd be interested to know why the writer wanted to make absolutely certain that players couldn't do anything with her except kill her.


Anlerran wrote:


Sure, you can change anything you want, but we're getting back to the thing about 'fighting the written material' again. I'd be interested to know why the writer wanted to make absolutely certain that players couldn't do anything with her except kill her.

The AP is a guideline IMO. As a GM I very much try to be as canon as possible so that I don't lose track of what I've changed. I think that the writers wanted to limit some of the character options a bit so they didn't have to have every eventuality.

'So, if Rosie is alive, and you've captured Isabella - then do xxx, but if Isabella is dead and so is rosie, do yyy. Alternatively if Isabella is alive, but Rosie is dead - do zzz.' can be tiresome to think about... and this is only the 2nd of 6 installments. IMO one of the hardest parts in writing an AP series like this is making SURE to keep things inline and not allowing for too many choices that impact later choices directly.

What if your players decide to fight against the Wurmwood crew when they come across the Man's Promise? What if they just kill rickety squibbs at first sight? There are lots of major plot changing things that need to be curtailed to make the story go as planned - otherwise it's no longer the AP 'Skull & Shackles', but instead just another ad hoc pirate adventure.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Anlerran wrote:
There's clearly a bit of fanservice going on here, which isn't in itself a bad thing. They obviously put her on the cover for a reason, even though she's actually a minor NPC.

Which would have been much better if she were more important to the story.

As it is, in the most literal sense the heroes only want her for her body - talk about unfortunate implications.

Anlerran wrote:
Which makes it seem all the more odd that the writer goes out of his way to say that the PCs CANNOT interact with her in any way beyond combat. If she's captured, she instantly kills herself and there's no way they can ever even talk to her. If she survives, she just attacks them again.

Then why is she given such a detailed write up in the appendix?

Actually building on Anlerran's previous idea, moving Isabella Locke to a CN "inconvenient girlfrend" character akin to Angelica (Pirates of the Caribbean 4) would have made more sense. But, one would need to remove much of the horrible abuse she suffered.

  • Captain Soshimira relatively decent for a pirate (much like the PCs). Isabella might have been a bit older when she was taken too.
  • Rather then his abused slave, Isabella would be his Ship's Sorcerer and his friend (with benefits?). This would also leave her teeth and sanity intact. It might also make her a bit of a seductress.
  • She was completely cool with having the map tattooed on her back, using it as a bargaining chip to get something she wanted from Soshimira (and possibly from the PCs, if she gets to parley).
  • When the sahuagin killed Captain Soshimira (who was attempting to use the map on her back), she used the charm monster to escape the fish men (and would never have become the sahuagin chief's concubine). This would leave her with ill-will towards the sahuagin - she might even offer to help the PCs (she would know a few things about Mancatcher Cover in addition to the treasure map on her back).
  • Her command of the Thresher is much more normal.

    This would open up several options.

  • If she surrenders to the PCs the most likely outcome, she knows that Grype would seize the opportunity to steal her ship, thus making her a bit b~&#+y.
  • Or she could be killed and the adventure proceed's normally.
  • She could even reach a better bargain - for her at least (via charm monster?) - with the PCs. This would make her more cooperative (see the point about Manchatcher Cover above).
  • And, if she somehow won the battle, it isn't necessarily a TPK (rather the PCs would be forced to parley with her).


  • The problem with them derailing what is written is quite strong through the campaign.
    So far I'm solving it by adding sidequests, such as raiding a Pirate Captain's fortress instead of Tidewater, and introducing some NPCs and fleshing out some of the unused Captains given later in the AP.

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