Do wounding and bleeding attack stack?


Rules Questions


If a rogue sneak attacks twice with a +1 wounding dagger, using bleeding attack and dealing 5 point of bleed for the sneak attack and 1 point of bleed for the wounding weapon, pr hit, does the enemy have 12 bleed by the end of the round?

-Nearyn


Quote:
Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect.

So it would just be 5 bleed damage (although note that you might still need to keep track of the Wounding bleed damage, since it specifically stacks with itself).


Excellent. Thank you.


Wouldn't the bleed attacks be considered precision damage? I'm honestly not familiar with what constitutes different kinds of bleed damage


Bleeding Attack* (Ex): A rogue with this ability can cause living opponents to bleed by hitting them with a sneak attack. This attack causes the target to take 1 additional point of damage each round for each die of the rogue's sneak attack (e.g., 4d6 equals 4 points of bleed). Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess

Wounding: A wounding weapon deals 1 point of bleed damage when it hits a creature. Multiple hits from a wounding weapon increase the bleed damage. Bleeding creatures take the bleed damage at the start of their turns. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage. A critical hit does not multiply the bleed damage. Creatures immune to critical hits are immune to the bleed damage dealt by this weapon.

Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.

Just to get the relevent rules in here. My 2 cents is they dont.


I guess differen kinds of bleed mean for example one does hp damage the other one does con damage. Those two would stack.


In general bleed from twenty different sources do not stack. The problem is the wounding dagger says it stacks with itself.the question is if it stacks with other bleed sources.

I think though in a lvl 9 rogue with 5d6 sneak stabs a monster twice with a wounding dagger that the oponednt will have on his turn two bleed on him. One for 2 (wounding twice) and one for 5. When the bad guys turn starts he bleeds 5. The other bleed is still there I think, he just takes the greater amount.

The only other interpretation is the sounding dagger stacks with the rogue talent in which case the bad guy would bleed 7. But I don't think this is the vase.

Btw the only case two desperate bleed would matter is it would take desperate heasl checks.


Umbranus wrote:
I guess differen kinds of bleed mean for example one does hp damage the other one does con damage. Those two would stack.

Right. For instance, the feat Deadly Stroke does Con damage bleed.


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Both bleed effects are on the target dealing the same effect (HP bleed). He will take the 5 bleed from your sneak attack until your wounding daggers have built up to 6 or more bleed damage a turn. At which point they would be the worse of the two HP bleed effect on the target and take over.


I am stumped by different interpretations of bleed damage from different sources. I have a character with three different forms of bleed damage and wondering what is the core rule for these, or what kind of house rules might apply to make it better.

The character is a rogue/barbarian lizardman with 1. Bleeding attack talent (3d6 sneak), 2. a wounding weapon, and 3. a bloody bite barbarian rage power. (using a kusarigama and improved two-weapon fighting)

According to rules: wounding stacks with itself, bleed from sneak doesn't stack with itself, and there is nothing on this about the d6 from bite. Under bleed condition description, different types of bleed damage don't stack (although it's not clear whether this refers to damage as well, or only to ability damage and drain).

so let's say there are two sneak hits with the wounding weapon and a successful bite as well. Am I to assume that there would be 2 bleed from the weapon, 3 from the sneak, and d6 from the bite? So 5+d6? Or only 3 from sneak if the d6 bite is under 3, otherwise only the bite would count if it's higher? And of course keeping track of wounding which might go above 3 or even 6 with cumulative hits.

Also, let's take the same result for round two, would these add up to the previous round's bleed damanges?


also, if you add the 2d6 bleeding critical into the mix, it would pretty much cancel out any other form of bleeding, from any other source...


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

It's not hard. Really.

There's no need to re-open up every thread on bleed for the last 7 years.

Use only the highest bleed. Don't add them together unless the rule for that particular bleed effect specifically allows it.

So, let's see.

Bleed Condition wrote:
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.

Alright, this is the most general rule that covers stacking, and it says that bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage, which for the purpose of this discussion are HP damage versus Ability Score Damage/Drain.

All of the effects you're bringing up do HP damage, so we already know that they don't stack with each other - just use the worse effect.

A wounding weapon does bleed equal to 1 per attack made with the weapon against the target creature (this is a paraphrase, but that's how it works).

Bleeding attack rogue talent does 1 bleed per die of sneak attack.

Bloody bite (I don't know the power, it's not in the PRD, so this is based on your post) does 1d6 bleed.

Bleeding critical does 2d6 bleed per critical hit you do to the target.

Apply the one with the highest amount of bleed.


When it says "bleed doesn't stack", it means that you use the highest damage bleed. For bleed effects with fixed damage (eg. deals 4 bleed damage), this is simple enough. If one effect causes 4 bleed and another effect causes 3 bleed, you use the 4 bleed. Wounding stacks with itself so it might start out lower, but eventually become the larger. The real hassle comes when you have a variable bleed based on a dice roll. If you have two separate effects that cause 1d4 and 1d6 bleed, some people think that the 1d6 fully and completely trumps the 1d4 since it's a larger dice. But this isn't the case. To figure this out, you roll both dice, but only apply the larger value. If you roll a 4 on the 1d4 and a 2 on the 1d6, you deal 4 bleed damage for that round.

So, with a Wounding Weapon, Bleeding Attack talent, and Bloody Bite, you're getting 3 bleed from Bleeding Attack, 1 bleed per successful attack from the Wounding weapon, and 1d6 bleed from Bloody Bite. So lets say your first round, you walk up and make a standard attack with the Wounding weapon that is a sneak attack. The wounding weapon puts 1 bleed damage on the target and the sneak attack puts 3 bleed via Bleeding Attack. The target takes 3 bleeding damage. Next round, you make a full-attack to TWF with the kusarigama (for the sake of example, I'll assume it has wounding on both ends) and also bite them. We'll presume that both attacks with the Kusarigama hit and the bite also hits. Now they have still have 3 bleed from Bleeding Attack, the Wounding weapon bleed has increased from 1 to 3, and they take 1d6 bleeding from the bite. You'll roll 1d6 for the bleeding from bite and if it's 4 or higher, they take that amount of bleed for the round. If it's less than 3, then Wounding and Bleeding Attack trump it. Now, lets say a teammate comes along and puts a 2d6 bleed on your opponent. Now it has 3/3/1d6/2d6 bleeds on it. Roll both the 1d6 and the 2d6 and, whatever happens to be the highest value, that's how much bleed the target takes. That might be the 1d6 if you roll well on it but poorly on the 2d6. Or that might even be the 3 damage if both the 1d6 and 2d6 roll poorly. Statistically, the 2d6 will roll the best with 7 bleed damage on average and also a central tendency, but it isn't absolute.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

IMO, if you attack with a Wounding double-weapon, or multiple Wounding weapons, each Wounding weapon would only stack with itself.

They all require individual enchantments, and whatever is on one end of a double-weapon is irrelevant when the other end hits.


and extra hits with bleeding critical in consecutive rounds would stack with themselves? 2d6 to 4d6 to 6d6 and so on?

(of course wounding as well, but it would be way smaller compared to this...)

@Queen Moragan, thanks for the wounding clarification! didn't even think about that.

also, does anyone have a list of effects on hand that cause ability dmg or drain? having a hard time locating them.

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