Corpses are treated as objects? (So animate object works on them?)


Rules Questions


Probably this is a recurring question but i didn't find any complete answer.

Does animate object work on a corpse (does the corpse count as an object?). Is there any specific rule stating that a corpse is an object? If so where?

Thanks in advice for any help. :)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Totally works.


I would say it works, but with a caveat. Since you are animating it as an object rather than as a corpse, it wouldn't be infused with the same type of energy as an unread. As such, things like rigor mortis could be an issue, and I expect it'd move more like a marionette without fine control.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

No, it would be treated in all ways like a construct. If you animate it as an object, it will be treated as such. It will confuse the hell out of a Paladin.


It would still rot, though. Unless you take measures to preserve this, it would waste away normally.

But yeah, it would be a plain construct per the animate object rules and in no way related to the undead.

Kinda like a flesh golem, i guess.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Gentle Repose will handle that. Sculpt corpse will allow you to make it look like whoever you want.


Out of curiosity, where does it state that a corpse is an object? It's not under Condition: Dead, it's not in the spell description for Animate Objects or in any other spot that comes to mind. Is this an assumption (albeit a logical one) or is it specified?


Well, Gentle Repose refers to the corpse as an object.

Don't know it if it's anywhere else.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Check out Gentle Repose as one of many examples.

Gentle Repose wrote:
Saving Throw Spell Resistance negates (object); Spell Resistance yes (object)

Ninja'd


Thanks Bladerock and blackbloodtroll. I was wondering.

What makes me wonder, still, is that the corpse gets a saving throw (and spell resistance) to avoid gentle repose while an objects does not recieve a save to avoid animation. Odd that a corpse / object recieves a save vs. one effect not another. I'd think Gentle Repose would be easier to impose over animation... maybe that's just me.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I believe gentle repose can be used on undead as well.


blackbloodtroll wrote:


I believe gentle repose can be used on undead as well.

Could be; it doesn't say. I notice in their sample animated object of a cage with a skeleton inside it the skeleton itself isn't animated. Just along for the ride as it were. Hmmm.

I've never allowed Animate Object to work on a corpse in my game (and it hasn't come up within 3.x). I did have someone animate a suit of armor to help transport a corpse until resurrection could be obtained (or at least a descent burial). I always argued that corpses weren't simple inanimate objects given the connection to a soul and a previous life. Flesh Golems became "objects" by being composed of numerous corpses destroyed and stiched together in my previous decisions. Wooden animated objects (presumably not from sentient plants) I'd allowed. Have to think this over on a "just in case" basis...

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It is not very good option. Corpses are not very tough objects, something metal or wooden is more useful.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
I believe gentle repose can be used on undead as well.

No. Undead are creatures, not objects. The core rulebook defines creature as:

Quote:
Creature: A creature is an active participant in the story or world. This includes PCs, NPCs, and monsters.

If its active (can move, act, etc.), its a creature. If it can't move or act, its an object.

Also, the spell preserves the remains of a dead creature. Undead aren't dead, they are un-dead. Being undead kind of means they aren't dead anymore.

Quote:
What makes me wonder, still, is that the corpse gets a saving throw (and spell resistance) to avoid gentle repose while an objects does not recieve a save to avoid animation. Odd that a corpse / object recieves a save vs. one effect not another. I'd think Gentle Repose would be easier to impose over animation... maybe that's just me.

It doesn't get a saving throw if it is just lying there. The [object] under Saving Throw means:

Quote:
(object): The spell can be cast on objects, which receive saving throws only if they are magical or if they are attended (held, worn, grasped, or the like) by a creature resisting the spell, in which case the object uses the creature's saving throw bonus unless its own bonus is greater. This notation does not mean that a spell can be cast only on objects. Some spells of this sort can be cast on creatures or objects. A magic item's saving throw bonuses are each equal to 2 + 1/2 the item's caster level.

Spell resistance is treated as the same. Only magical or attended objects get a saving throw or spell resistance. Nonmagical, unattended objects don't get a save or SR.


Jeraa wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
I believe gentle repose can be used on undead as well.

No. Undead are creatures, not objects. The core rulebook defines creature as:

But eventhough they are a creature, it might be argued that they are still a corpse, which are the target for the spell.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

You can always cast gentle repose, then animate the corpse.


Under permanancy in the category: Can only be cast on objects or areas you can find sanctify corpse.
Sounds to my as if a corpse was an object.

I wonder what happens if you cast mending or make whole on a corpse (small enough to be a legal target. Say a one week old squirrel corpse.)

Sczarni

Unguent of Timelessness makes it pretty clear that a corpse is a medium/huge object. And it gets a modification to its saving throws.


I'd say its an object but i wouldn't let someone target a corpse with animate object. The reason i would give at the table is that the corpse is a collection of objects and you coukd animate individual bones but to move the whole thing you need necromancy.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

With that ruling, gentle repose and unguent of timelessness only works on part of a corpse. That would be a silly houserule.


No bbt, since they say they target the entire corpse (just like animate corpse) they would still work. Its also not a house rule, just the fluff reason i would give for saying no to animating an entire corpse with animate objects.


I know in the Pathfinder modules Gentle Repose has been used on undead at various times. One of the villains in one of the modules (for 3.5e) was a mummy cleric that cast gentle repose on herself so she still looked human after hundreds of years (thousands of years?).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ah, that's where I heard about that.

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