Synthesist Summoner Advice wanted


Advice


Sorry guys, I'm a terrible writer, this is my next attempt on my synthesist though

Human Summoner (synthesist) Favored Class Summoner +1 hp Eidolon
Str 10 0 HP 11 Feats
Dex 11 0 AC 10 Weapon Focus (Bite)
Con 17 3 Weapon Focus (claws)
Int 10 0
Wis 14 2
Cha 14 2

Saves Traits Eidolon (Quadruped)
Fort 4 Indomnitable Faith Bite
Ref 0 Resilient Claws
Will 5 Improved Natural Armor

2nd Monk 19 Fort 6 Ref 2 Will 7
Flurry of Blows Improved Unarmed Strike Dodge

3rd Summoner 27 BAB 1 Will 8
Dragon Style Evasion

4th 39 BAB 2 Fort 8 Ref 3 +1 Con

5th 48 BAB 3 Will 9
Feral Combat Training (Claws) Shielded Meld

6th 57
+1 Eidolon Strength

7th 66 BAB 4 Fort 9 Ref 4 Will 10
Dragon Ferocity Makers Jump

8th 75 BAB 5 Fort 10 +1 Con

9th 84 BAB 6 Will 11
Feral Combat Training (bite)

10th 93 Fort 11 Ref 5
MultiAttack

11th 102 BAB 7 Will 12
Power Attack

12th 123 BAB 8 Fort 12 +1 Con

Without items
STR 10 0 Saves (W/o Eidolon) (W/ Eidolon)
Dex 11 0 Fort 12 12
Con 20 5 Ref 5 8
Int 10 0 Will 12 14
Wis 14 2
Cha 14 2

Eidolon (15 pts) +2 Str lvl 5/ 10
Large 4, Str 28 HP 81
Improved Nat Armor * 3 3, Dex 16 AC 33
Bite 1 Con 17 (10+18 Nat+2 Wis+3 Dex)
Claws 1
Pounce 1 Claw + 14 1d6+27
Rend 2 Bite + 14 1d8+27
Blind Sense 3 Claw + 14 1d6+19
Total 15 Bite + 14 1d8+27
Rend 1d10+13

With Items
Belt of Physical Might +4 (Str, Con) 40,000
Amulet of Mighty Fist + 3 45,000
Cloak of Resistance + 4 16,000
Headband of Wisdom +2 4,000
Total 105,000

Hp 147
AC 34
Saves W/o Eidolon W/ Eidolon Full Attack
Fort 18 18 / Claw +19 1d6 + 31
Ref 9 12 Bite + 19 1d8 + 31
Will 17 19 Claw + 19 1d6 + 25
Bite + 19 1d8 + 31
Rend 1d10 + 16
Base Damage for all hits 139

BackStory: <Insert Name here, Sorry guys I'm bad with names> was a trainee monk in the monastary of irori. The monks there dedicated themselves with training the new recruits, recording all of the knowledge that the senior monks could find in their travels, and training themselves to reach the pinnacle of power that their god had once achieved.

Over time one of the senior monks grew overly ambitious however. One night, he swept into the chamber and stole a mighty amulet, a powerful artifact or Irori. The head monk of the monastary confronted him with a small retinue and attempted to stop him. Unfortunately the power of the monk was too great with the amulet. The rogue monk slaughtered all of his enemies and proceeded to butcher his way through the monastary.
Upon waking <insert protagonist name here> knew something was wrong. The beds were all empty and the night was silent. Everything was pitch black, not a light to be found, but he could still see almost perfectly. The door to the trainees chambers flew open suddenly and in walked a glowing blue beast with the symbol or Irori on its forehead. It walked torwards him and extended a single claw. He stood frozen, suddenly realizing he could not move and as it touched him it transferred a frenzy of messages into his head. The world went black.

He woke in the forest adjacent to the monastary and rose to watch it burn. Irori had sent one of his champions to aid him. He was to track down <insert evil characters name here>. On that day Irori symbol was engraved on his face when he awoke. He had to figure out how to work with this creature. Only then, it advised him, could he finish his training as a monk, and afterwords the merging of their powers could defeat <insert evil characters name here> and return the amulet ot its rightful place.


You know that you can't cast with your current evolutions, while you are fused right? Actually you can't do anything that requires arms or hands.


Gignere wrote:
You know that you can't cast with your current evolutions, while you are fused right? Actually you can't do anything that requires arms or hands.

While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor. In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present).


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Gignere wrote:
You know that you can't cast with your current evolutions, while you are fused right? Actually you can't do anything that requires arms or hands.
While fused, the synthesist loses the benefits of his armor. He counts as both his original type and as an outsider for any effect related to type, whichever is worse for the synthesist. Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected. Neither the synthesist nor his eidolon can be targeted separately, as they are fused into one creature. The synthesist and eidolon cannot take separate actions. While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist can use all of his own abilities and gear, except for his armor. In all other cases, this ability functions as the summoner’s normal eidolon ability (for example, the synthesist cannot use his summon monster ability while the eidolon is present).

Check the FAQ on synthesist. They clarified that while they don't lose the ability to do so they still need to meet the requirements of doing so. So spell casting requires arms and hands. Same with using alot of skills or anything in game that requires hands or arms.


Gignere wrote:
Check the FAQ on synthesist. They clarified that while they don't lose the ability to do so they still need to meet the requirements of doing so. So spell casting requires arms and hands. Same with using alot of skills or anything in game that requires hands or arms.

Regardless this i supposed to be a melee character with some buffing ability in his offtime. He should not be casting in combat in case you didn't notice:P


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Check the FAQ on synthesist. They clarified that while they don't lose the ability to do so they still need to meet the requirements of doing so. So spell casting requires arms and hands. Same with using alot of skills or anything in game that requires hands or arms.
Regardless this i supposed to be a melee character with some buffing ability in his offtime. He should not be casting in combat in case you didn't notice:P

You don't want to cast haste? How are you going to heal? The FAQ clarified that the only thing in game that can replenish your temp hps is rejuvenate eidolon. Great a melee character with no way to heal hps makes a great melee. /end sarcasm.


Gignere wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Check the FAQ on synthesist. They clarified that while they don't lose the ability to do so they still need to meet the requirements of doing so. So spell casting requires arms and hands. Same with using alot of skills or anything in game that requires hands or arms.
Regardless this i supposed to be a melee character with some buffing ability in his offtime. He should not be casting in combat in case you didn't notice:P
You don't want to cast haste? How are you going to heal? The FAQ clarified that the only thing in game that can replenish your temp hps is rejuvenate eidolon. Great a melee character with no way to heal hps makes a great melee. /end sarcasm.

I can transfer my hp when I would lose him and take heals like normal. Wow, brilliant. Brilliant. You should pay attention to stuff like that. Cast before the combat for heavens sake


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Gignere wrote:
Check the FAQ on synthesist. They clarified that while they don't lose the ability to do so they still need to meet the requirements of doing so. So spell casting requires arms and hands. Same with using alot of skills or anything in game that requires hands or arms.
Regardless this i supposed to be a melee character with some buffing ability in his offtime. He should not be casting in combat in case you didn't notice:P
You don't want to cast haste? How are you going to heal? The FAQ clarified that the only thing in game that can replenish your temp hps is rejuvenate eidolon. Great a melee character with no way to heal hps makes a great melee. /end sarcasm.
I can transfer my hp when I would lose him and take heals like normal. Wow, brilliant. Brilliant. You should pay attention to stuff like that. Cast before the combat for heavens sake

Haste lasts rounds per level, it takes you 10 rounds to summon your suit.

How would you ever heal your suit? So you will forever be at 1 temp hps. Because it doesn't heal naturally and if you summon it you can't cast rejuvenate eidolon.

Also this will be my last post on this thread because it is obvious you don't want advice.


Gignere wrote:

Haste lasts rounds per level, it takes you 10 rounds to summon your suit.

How would you ever heal your suit? So you will forever be at 1 temp hps. Because it doesn't heal naturally and if you summon it you can't cast rejuvenate eidolon.

Also this will be my last post on this thread because it is obvious you don't want advice.

I'm sorry I don't want to be straight caster. And no there is a way to summon it in 1 round. and why does 1 temp health hurt? I've still got the health I normally have


Assuming you'll always have forewarning/prep time before combat is rather optimistic.

Plus, a lot of short-term buffs like haste really can't be cast pre-battle and unfused on acocunt of the time it takes to summon your Eidolon.


Chengar Qordath wrote:

Assuming you'll always have forewarning/prep time before combat is rather optimistic.

Plus, a lot of short-term buffs like haste really can't be cast pre-battle and unfused on acocunt of the time it takes to summon your Eidolon.

true I wasn't really planning on this character casting much for combat at all. I thought 200+ HP 30+ AC and 100+ Damage on an 80 ft charge that ignores difficult terrain was enough really


Ok to be clear advice as I understand it are actual statements that would help make this better. Not stating many obvious things with no real fixes


There's a pretty easy fix; add arms to the Eidolon.


Step 1) Play a synthesist.

Step 2) Marginalize combat to the point where your existence makes the game less fun for others at your table as they wallow in the piddling damage a round they can do, while still being squishy compared to you.

Step 3) Rejoice in making the game more fun for you, at the considerable expense of the others at the table.

Shadow Lodge

Link to a guide a a synthesist build (the angry caterpillar)

Scarab Sages

1. You cannot cast while fused unless you have hands.

2. Life Link only gives the option to prevent damage to your eidolon as it occurs, not retroactively heal damage to your eidolon. Without the ability to cast, you might as well permanently set your eidolon's hp to 1.

3. You do not want to turn your favored class hp into temp hp. You already have the option to funnel damage towards your regular hp.

4. You are not set up to make effective use of feral combat training. Natural attackes (claws in your case) will not be usable in addition to FoB.

5. The other people in this thread, with the exception of Cheapy, have tried to give constructive feedback. Ignore them and nobody will be willing to help you.

Shadow Lodge

Artanthos wrote:
5. The other people in this thread, with the exception of Cheapy, have tried to give constructive feedback. Ignore them and nobody will be willing to help you.

+1

I have a synthesist - she's a lot of fun to play. I deliberately underpowered her to avoid the whole "making everything less fun for everybody else" but I did originally spec her out to average 134 points of damage per round on a full attack (over 200 max). I found a number of things, some mentioned, some not, which makes playing the synthesist more fun.

Your rudeness to the other posters hasn't made me want to share any of my experiences though.

Liberty's Edge

While Cheapy might not have been the most constructive voice in the thread, his points are pretty valid.

Granted, it's probably not as bad in a home game, but on the occasion that our synthesist player shows up to our PFS group, in order to make the combats interesting as a DM (provide a challenge for the group) I have to basically ignore him completely. His AC is through the roof, he has twice as many hit points as everyone else, more attacks with much higher strength, reach (he's large), high speed, flight on tap with evolution surge, and ridiculous saves from Shield Ally and a cloak of resistance. Oh, and he's got the Skilled evolution in diplomacy so basically auto-wins every social encounter. He outdamages every character within 3 levels of him except my uber-optimized paladin mounted charger and my friend's paladin/fighter archer, although admittedly besides those couple of characters our group does not build very effective characters. My paladin is my only uber-optimized character, the rest of mine are just generally effective and fun to play.

So my advice with a synthesist summoner is to take interesting choices rather than optimized ones. With any effort at all you'll outpace most of the party at most aspects of the game.


Artanthos wrote:

1. You cannot cast while fused unless you have hands.

2. Life Link only gives the option to prevent damage to your eidolon as it occurs, not retroactively heal damage to your eidolon. Without the ability to cast, you might as well permanently set your eidolon's hp to 1.

3. You do not want to turn your favored class hp into temp hp. You already have the option to funnel damage towards your regular hp.

4. You are not set up to make effective use of feral combat training. Natural attackes (claws in your case) will not be usable in addition to FoB.

5. The other people in this thread, with the exception of Cheapy, have tried to give constructive feedback. Ignore them and nobody will be willing to help you.

5. (because its most important) She did not tell me how to fix it. She didn't tell me what I was misunderstood. She stood there and yelled. I'm quite happy she's gone. When I say I want advice I mean tell me your ideas to change it to make it better. She said what was wrong. In 3 comments she never gave a single idea to fix it. The only person who has given constructive feedback up until my last post was the man who suggested limbs.

3. I can change the hp.

2. I understand I can only funnel damage when I would lose my eidolon

4. Why can I not use flurry of blows with my claws and I've actually set it up to use the flurry with bite if possible. As i read it the feat says that as long as I take weapon focus and feral combat training I may use all unarmed feats including flurry of blows. Where am I misunderstanding it?

1. I will reupdate with my remodeled build


Axebeard wrote:

While Cheapy might not have been the most constructive voice in the thread, his points are pretty valid.

Granted, it's probably not as bad in a home game, but on the occasion that our synthesist player shows up to our PFS group, in order to make the combats interesting as a DM (provide a challenge for the group) I have to basically ignore him completely. His AC is through the roof, he has twice as many hit points as everyone else, more attacks with much higher strength, reach (he's large), high speed, flight on tap with evolution surge, and ridiculous saves from Shield Ally and a cloak of resistance. Oh, and he's got the Skilled evolution in diplomacy so basically auto-wins every social encounter. He outdamages every character within 3 levels of him except my uber-optimized paladin mounted charger and my friend's paladin/fighter archer, although admittedly besides those couple of characters our group does not build very effective characters. My paladin is my only uber-optimized character, the rest of mine are just generally effective and fun to play.

So my advice with a synthesist summoner is to take interesting choices rather than optimized ones. With any effort at all you'll outpace most of the party at most aspects of the game.

Has your dm tried dismissal or banishment and then some kind of magical disjunction?

And I'm sorry if you don't like number crunching. I'm an engineer. I love number crunching. Right now in addition to this I'm writing 3 research grant proposals for original ideas just for the fun of it. I don't believe optimizing is wrong so long as I don't take all the niches. Taking combat as my niche means knowledge and social skills and such are available for someone else, blasting for aoe, utility of all kinds, trap finding, and many other important roles. Last I checked doing your specific job well is a good thing not a bad thing


MisterSlanky wrote:

+1

I have a synthesist - she's a lot of fun to play. I deliberately underpowered her to avoid the whole "making everything less fun for everybody else" but I did originally spec her out to average 134 points of damage per round on a full attack (over 200 max). I found a number of things, some mentioned, some not, which makes playing the synthesist more fun.

Your rudeness to the other posters hasn't made me want to share any of my experiences though.

Thats fine. Thanks to one person's post and a little advice from table I've actually jumped base damage on full attack to 166.

Oh and to be clear I've only been rude to one person who ended their comment with /sarcasm before I was rude. So yes. I am rude to ***holes. They deserve it. meh nvm. Leave it at, if you are not polite I will not be polite. period. get over it


Human Summoner (synthesist) Favored Class Summoner +1 hp
Str 10 0 HP 12 Feats
Dex 11 0 AC 10 Weapon Focus (Bite)
Con 17 3 Weapon Focus (claws)
Int 10 0
Wis 14 2
Cha 14 2

Saves Traits Eidolon (Quadruped)
Fort 4 Indomnitable Faith Bite
Ref 0 Resilient Claws
Will 5 Improved Natural Armor

2nd Monk 20 Fort 6 Ref 2 Will 7
Flurry of Blows Improved Unarmed Strike Dodge

3rd Summoner 29 BAB 1 Will 8
Dragon Style Evasion

4th 42 BAB 2 Fort 8 Ref 3 +1 Con

5th 52 BAB 3 Will 9
Feral Combat Training (Claws) Shielded Meld

6th 62
+1 Eidolon Strength

7th 72 BAB 4 Fort 9 Ref 4 Will 10
Dragon Ferocity Makers Jump

8th 82 BAB 5 Fort 10 +1 Con

9th 92 BAB 6 Will 11
Feral Combat Training (bite)

10th 102 Fort 11 Ref 5
MultiAttack

11th 112 BAB 7 Will 12
Power Attack

12th 134 BAB 8 Fort 12 +1 Con

Without items
STR 10 0 Saves (W/o Eidolon) (W/ Eidolon)
Dex 11 0 Fort 12 12
Con 20 5 Ref 5 8
Int 10 0 Will 12 14
Wis 14 2
Cha 14 2

Eidolon (15 pts) +2 Str lvl 5/ 10
Large 4, Str 28 HP 70
Improved Nat Armor * 3 3, Dex 16 AC 32
Bite 1 Con 17 (10 + 18 Nat+ 2 Wis +
Claws 1 3 Dex -1 Size)
Pounce 1 Claw + 14 1d6+27
rend 2 Bite + 14 1d8+27
limbs 2 Claw + 14 1d6+19
Slam 1 Bite + 14 1d8+27
Slam + 14 2d6+19
Rend 1d10+13

With Items
Belt of Physical Might +4 (Str, Con) 40,000
Amulet of Mighty Fist + 3 45,000
Cloak of Resistance + 4 16,000
Headband of Wisdom +2 4,000
Total 105,000
Hp 147
AC 33 (10 + 18 Nat + 3 Wisdom + 3 Dex -1 size)
Saves W/o Eidolon W/ Eidolon Full Attack
Fort 18 18 Claw +19 1d6 + 31
Ref 9 12 Bite + 19 1d8 + 31
Will 17 19 Claw + 19 1d6 + 25
Bite + 19 1d8 + 31
Slam + 18 2d6 + 21
Rend 1d10 + 16
Base Damage for all hits 166


I see that your character's CON is 17 while your Eidolon's score stays at 13? I didn't see any boosts to the Eidolon's CON score. (didn't look very hard though).

Because the Eidolon replaces your physical scores your CON will drop from 17(base) to 13(base). At level 12 you'll loose 24 hp just for wearing the suit. It gets worse if you keep bumping your CON without regard to the Eidolon.

If you want to be math friendly on yourself set your CON score to exactly that of the Eidolon's.


Betsuni wrote:

I see that your character's CON is 17 while your Eidolon's score stays at 13? I didn't see any boosts to the Eidolon's CON score. (didn't look very hard though).

Because the Eidolon replaces your physical scores your CON will drop from 17(base) to 13(base). At level 12 you'll loose 24 hp just for wearing the suit. It gets worse if you keep bumping your CON without regard to the Eidolon.

If you want to be math friendly on yourself set your CON score to exactly that of the Eidolon's.

The Eidolon keeps his own Hp pool doesn't he? Not mine? That and large size pops his Con to 17 but yes as I recall we get separate HP pools, one for the eidolon that is temp and one that is normal.

Is this errata'd somewhere? You're the first to bring this up


Thomas Long 175 wrote:
Betsuni wrote:

I see that your character's CON is 17 while your Eidolon's score stays at 13? I didn't see any boosts to the Eidolon's CON score. (didn't look very hard though).

Because the Eidolon replaces your physical scores your CON will drop from 17(base) to 13(base). At level 12 you'll loose 24 hp just for wearing the suit. It gets worse if you keep bumping your CON without regard to the Eidolon.

If you want to be math friendly on yourself set your CON score to exactly that of the Eidolon's.

The Eidolon keeps his own Hp pool doesn't he? Not mine? That and large size pops his Con to 17 but yes as I recall we get separate HP pools, one for the eidolon that is temp and one that is normal.

Is this errata'd somewhere? You're the first to bring this up

Not really an Errata. The temp HP you gain is influenced by the Eidolon's CON score and level. But also your HP while wearing the suit is also determined by the Eidolon's CON score.

Synthesist.

Quote:
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points.

I wouldn't recommend you having a lower CON then your Eidolon. You would have a HP boost (both yours and the temp). But the moment your "suit" goes away so does your adjusted HP. This may leave you dead.


Betsuni wrote:

Not really an Errata. The temp HP you gain is influenced by the Eidolon's CON score and level. But also your HP while wearing the suit is also determined by the Eidolon's CON score.

Synthesist.

Quote:
While fused with his eidolon, the synthesist uses the eidolon’s physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), but retains his own mental ability scores (Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma). The synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points.
With this in mind it is possible for you to dump your DEX and STR scores to 7. Hopefully you are not encumbered without your "suit".

Ok thank you. Thankfully my magical bonus to con will bump over to my eidolon whenever I transform, since all gear continues to work as normal.

As for the dumping of stats however, sorry I don't dump stats. Really ever. I feel that there is a difference between min/maxing and optimizing characters and that generally lies in the idea that min/maxers will tend to go out of their way to throw out every stat that isn't absolutely necessary to the minimum number of points.

So thank you for the clarification on the Con, but I'm sorry I'm not one to just dump my Strength and Dex just for extra points


Thomas Long 175 wrote:

Ok thank you. Thankfully my magical bonus to con will bump over to my eidolon whenever I transform, since all gear continues to work as normal.

Yes this should be OK.


Try multiclassing with Druid instead of Monk. 4 levels of Druid and you can take Natural Spell to allow you cast without hands. Boon Companion will let you Eidalon keep up with you in terms of levels and the levels of druid will give you access to domain powers and the druid spell list (Bark Skin will be handy)
Additionally, some of the shamanic archetypes of druid get bonuses when they summon a particular type of creature. I haven't read the lists thoroughly but there might be some overlap between what bonuses are available and what can be summoned with a summoners innate powers.


Would Boon Companion work?

It specifically states "Animal Companion" or "Familiar". An Eidolon is neither.


wargamer wrote:

Try multiclassing with Druid instead of Monk. 4 levels of Druid and you can take Natural Spell to allow you cast without hands. Boon Companion will let you Eidalon keep up with you in terms of levels and the levels of druid will give you access to domain powers and the druid spell list (Bark Skin will be handy)

Additionally, some of the shamanic archetypes of druid get bonuses when they summon a particular type of creature. I haven't read the lists thoroughly but there might be some overlap between what bonuses are available and what can be summoned with a summoners innate powers.

1. Yes but I don't actually favor casting types. I hate sitting around casting. I just like the idea of monsters which is why I like synthesist.

2. Doing such will not net me stunning fist as desired which will not allow dragon ferocity.

3. Doing such negates my entire backstory and personally this is my first in depth backstory.

4. Natural Shape specifically states that you can do it while wildshaped. This is eidolon not wild shape they're separate. Further more all benefits from wildshape would be completely useless here

Thank you anyways but your suggestions lean torwards a more casty type summoner. I'm going synthesist because I want a melee type

Liberty's Edge

Thomas Long 175 wrote:
-snip-

Did you respond to the wrong post by accident? It sort of seems like you didn't really read what I wrote.

Quote:
Has your dm tried dismissal or banishment and then some kind of magical disjunction?

PFS is organized play. The DM isn't allowed to just randomly add stuff in. Also, I was speaking from the perspective of the DM. And believe me, if EVERY OTHER FIGHT there were foes capable of dismissing the eidolon, what was going on would get very obvious and very tiresome very quickly.

Quote:
And I'm sorry if you don't like number crunching.

When did I say I didn't like number cunching? Did I even imply this? As I'm sure you do, I have entire excel sheets comparing certain weapons' average damage and expected critical damage as a function of damage bonuses to equal-CR enemies' average HP in order to actually optimize to the point of not just doing the most damage, but of not overkilling so as to not waste damage on the kinds of foes I expect to face. (For example, when deciding between a rhoka and a falcata.) The idea is to get minimum critical hit damage to be nearly equal to equal-CR monster hp, or to 2/3 of it so as to mean that 1HKOs or 2HKOs are common without losing too much damage that could be going somewhere else.

Quote:
I'm an engineer.

Okay. I'm a physicist.

Quote:
I don't believe optimizing is wrong so long as I don't take all the niches.

I never said optimization was wrong. I even said I had my own uber-optimized character, so that would even imply that I optimize, myself.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. I'm just saying that, as a synthesist, with even minimal work, you're going to be better at just about everything than just about everybody. Being powerful with a synthesist just isn't impressive. If you optimize a synthesist and play it to the hilt, you WILL make everyone else obsolete at combat. And, guess what? Combat is 90% of most pathfinder games. Making combat "your niche" and taking it for yourself is giving yourself the 90% and leaving the rest of the party the 10% to divide amongst themselves.

So sure, optimize. I optimize. Every character I have is actually optimized to a certain purpose, but the halfling paladin is the only one who's optimized to make himself shine - and I usually spend most mods doing stuff with him like going fisticuffs with huge evil monsters because, after killing (at level 7, by himself) the huge, CR 15 monkey without help from the guardian in a mwangi expanse mod, there's very little left to do except just have some fun with him (and I have more fun when everyone is having fun. Stomping around on PFS got boring.).

You just assumed a ton about me and how I play the game, when really not only was it not in the post, but somehow you got everything exactly wrong, AND missed the point.

So here's the point: The game works best when all players are close to each other in optimization level. If the DM sees you not challenged by combat, he's going to make things more difficult until he sees you challenged. The same creatures that barely challenge you will probably kill most other party members, so by your optimization you're increasing the likelihood of the entire group failing. Usually, for a TPK, rolls have to go poorly for the entire party. Suddenly, rolls only have to go poorly for you because once you're down, the party is out. Well, unless the DM continuously rationalizes why the monsters only attack you, or never attack you, or whatever. There's also the possibility that if the other player characters are not optimized, the other players at the table might resent you for having a super-powerful character.

Now, if everyone is going to optimize as much as you are, then of course, go for it. Just know that if you're going to be the only super-optimized character at the table, then you'll be making it harder on everyone else, including the DM.

So I can actually claim that I gave build advice, here's some advice on synthesist:

1) Know haste
2) Maximize number of attacks and strength score.
3) Go quadruped for pounce
4) Know evolution surge so you can fly whenever you need it.

Everything else is done for you. You get 2x hit points, high AC, +2 to all saves at a really low level that jumps to +4 later, multiple attacks at your highest BAB, and unparalleled mobility. If you're looking for an optimization challenge, the synthesist is not your archetype. They're too easy to build in a way that breaks the game to the point where further optimization does not actually increase your return.

I don't resent you for choosing synthesist. I'm just telling you, objectively, that unless the rest of the party either does not care, at all, about combat, or optimizes with similar results to what you are obtaining now, there WILL be balance issues, and you WILL make the DM work a lot harder. My advice would be to optimize and build one character, but either to play it with kid gloves or to play something else so that other people have something to do.


Axebeard wrote:
When did I say I didn't like number cunching? Did I even imply this?

Actually I don't. I've been racing against calculators and cash registers all my life to the point where I can multiply two numbers both in the tens of thousands with little difficulty. Numerical optimization with a focus on human interaction components is what I do for fun. Including things beyond my work from grocery shopping (how quickly will I eat something, how many servings will it take to fill me up, cost per serving, effective cost per day, etc).

But yes you give off the subtle vibe like 90% of other forum goers that optimizers are in some way dirty horrible people that intrinsically ruin games.

Axebeard wrote:

I never said optimization was wrong. I even said I had my own uber-optimized character, so that would even imply that I optimize, myself.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here. I'm just saying that, as a synthesist, with even minimal work, you're going to be better at just about everything than just about everybody. Being powerful with a synthesist just isn't impressive. If you optimize a synthesist and play it to the hilt, you WILL make everyone else obsolete at combat. And, guess what? Combat is 90% of most pathfinder games. Making combat "your niche"and leaving the rest of the party the 10% to divide amongst themselves.

10%? I hate roleplaying and we still have more npc interaction than that? does your gm just not have story line? I've had campaigns where we've gone literally over 40 hours of table time without a single attack roll.

Axebeard wrote:
I don't resent you for choosing synthesist. I'm just telling you, objectively, that unless the rest of the party either does not care, at all, about combat, or optimizes with similar results to what you are obtaining now, there WILL be balance issues, and you WILL make the DM work a lot harder. My advice would be to optimize and build one character, but either to play it with kid gloves or to play something else so that other people have something to do.

Thing is I've been trying to build the perfect character for nearly 4 years and while I feel that I'm "getting close" (high saves, ungodly AC, Huge base damage) this character is still only another iteration. He'll be countered the instant my dm decides a 5 ft hall is necessary. I'm still heavily counterable by two mainstream spells and my to hit isn't that epic.

The point with this one is that if I continue on I can then maximize my strength much further with the extra points and bring my damage to truly unruly levels.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Synthesist Summoner Advice wanted All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice