Why a MMO?


Pathfinder Online


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Making a MMO doesn't make sense. Pathfinder is a RPG, a table-top. Where you have a DM and players, not only players and a set of ready scenarios (but you can play like that if you want). Why not make something like Neverwinter Nights? You know, toolset for people who want to make their own stories or game-worlds? A game that supports a DM Client, where players can become DM's in world created by the toolset? You could easily implement the whole settlement thing in the game and toolset. Hell, why not a official server with River Kingdoms game-world? This just doesn't make any sense. Worse, it will flop. So why?

Goblin Squad Member

My magic eight ball says: He's a Time Lord!

My spidey senses simple tell me: If you could see the future, you wouldn't be here =P

If made right it's possible to add those elements into the game in some fashion. Player created content can exist in a mmo game, it just has to have been developed into the game (and done right).

To the same degree though you could claim that table-top rpgs should never have been made into books or movies either because they are more often then not bad but it happens.

It's the skill of the craftsmen that brings about the result of good or bad, if you want something though that is like the original NWN then look into the new NWN mmorpg because they are putting in a DM system ;)

Goblin Squad Member

I think an MMO fits, if done correctly. The developers (Ryan) has already announced that they would like to put "Modules" into the game that you can play with specific groups of people, and that they would like for players to be able to create those modules as well. So if that is the case, then you get the best of both worlds; a persistent character whose actions continue to have meaning over many years and to many people, and a fun single/multi player modules you can run through with friends that have a deeper meaning since the things you do (xp you gain, loot you get, etc...) will carry over into a persistent world.


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Hmm... that doesn't sound bad. I hope that they will deliver, but still... why call it MMO then?

I still wish they make it more like NWN.

Goblin Squad Member

There's nothing wrong with MMOs. There's just a huge amount of lackluster MMOs out in the market. Pathfinder Online plans to make itself unique.

They have some great people from the MMO market working on this. I have faith it will be good (especially considering it wasn't even one day, and they already reached the 50k mark on the Kickstarter project.)


"You're going to fail so why even try."

Wow...


Buri wrote:

"You're going to fail so why even try."

Wow...

More like "Most fantasy MMO fail to meet expectations, even big MMO's like TOR, so why not try something good for the players and DM's? Like a new NWN-type game? It wasn't done since NWN2. Why try the road paved with dead bodies? Why?"

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Because at this point, there are three types of games that make money:

1. AAA-class games from big studios published by EA/Activision/Ubisoft

2. Indie games

3. MMOs

Since no AAA-publisher is going to pick up PFO (reason: IP not hot enough) and indie game is good enough for giving 2 guys and their dog a living, but not a whole company, the only option is a MMO.

Goblin Squad Member

From the Kickstarter project page:

Quote:

It’s a pipe dream! Nobody can do that. It’s impossible.

Well, we’re the team that laughs in the face of impossible. Pathfinder Online is the project that will slay this dragon. And Goblinworks is the company that will make it happen. Impossible? We say nay!

Grand Lodge

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Havoclivekiller wrote:
So why?

I could be misremembering, but I think the OGL precludes using the rules in a computer simulation type of game. WOTC reserved those rights, then licensed them to Atari (hence, NWN). If that's the case, then Paizo and Goblinworks would be breaking the terms of OGL if they created an NWN-style game. Since Paizo owns the IP for Golarion, they're free to create a game that isn't based on the OGL and uses their setting.

I could be wrong.

-Skeld


Gorbacz wrote:

Because at this point, there are three types of games that make money:

1. AAA-class games from big studios published by EA/Activision/Ubisoft

2. Indie games

3. MMOs

Since no AAA-publisher is going to pick up PFO (reason: IP not hot enough) and indie game is good enough for giving 2 guys and their dog a living, but not a whole company, the only option is a MMO.

Check Kickstarter. It proves you wrong. Wasteland 2 (3mil) a TB Post-Apo game. Shadowrun Returns (2mil) a TB cyberpunk-fantasy game.

Pathfinder that would be a NWN-type game and maybe with TB combat (like ToEE) would sell.

Goblin Squad Member

Havoclivekiller wrote:
Pathfinder that would be a NWN-type game and maybe with TB combat (like ToEE) would sell.

That may well be true, but that's not what Goblinworks wants to build.

Goblin Squad Member

Nihimon wrote:
That may well be true, but that's not what Goblinworks wants to build.

Amen. I think that is the answer for this entire thread.

Goblin Squad Member

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I think people are getting the process backwards

Mr. Ryan wanted to make a fantasy sandbox mmo, he wanted to use pre-existing content. DnD already has an MMO, and pathfinder is very similar. He approaches Lisa, and GW is formed to develop PFO.

This is not Paizos game, it is Goblinworks'. Paizo just licensing the content and providing early production banking services and forum hosting to help get GW off their feet.

The game is set to capture the flavor of the pathfinder world, not provide a medium for table top style gaming, this has been said numerous times. Get the idea of DM's out of your head now, and you will enjoy the end product better. There really is no room for DM's in a persistent world, and putting too much focus into instanced modules will kill the persistent world, players are horrible judges of rewards, so modules would just be time killer content that doesn't advance your character or reward you.

Goblin Squad Member

Valkenr wrote:

I think people are getting the process backwards

Mr. Ryan wanted to make a fantasy sandbox mmo, he wanted to use pre-existing content. DnD already has an MMO, and pathfinder is very similar. He approaches Lisa, and GW is formed to develop PFO.

This is not Paizos game, it is Goblinworks'. Paizo just licensing the content and providing early production banking services and forum hosting to help get GW off their feet.

The game is set to capture the flavor of the pathfinder world, not provide a medium for table top style gaming, this has been said numerous times. Get the idea of DM's out of your head now, and you will enjoy the end product better. There really is no room for DM's in a persistent world, and putting too much focus into instanced modules will kill the persistent world, players are horrible judges of rewards, so modules would just be time killer content that doesn't advance your character or reward you.

This.

Why an MMO? Because that's what was pitched to Paizo/Lisa. And it was a good enough pitch that they agreed to license out their setting for it.

A company/entity simply hasn't pitched (or at least hasn't pitched well enough) a different type of game to Paizo/Lisa that would be worth granting a Pathfinder license to.

Goblin Squad Member

Valkenr wrote:

I think people are getting the process backwards

Mr. Ryan wanted to make a fantasy sandbox mmo, he wanted to use pre-existing content. DnD already has an MMO, and pathfinder is very similar. He approaches Lisa, and GW is formed to develop PFO.

This is not Paizos game, it is Goblinworks'. Paizo just licensing the content and providing early production banking services and forum hosting to help get GW off their feet.

The game is set to capture the flavor of the pathfinder world, not provide a medium for table top style gaming, this has been said numerous times. Get the idea of DM's out of your head now, and you will enjoy the end product better. There really is no room for DM's in a persistent world, and putting too much focus into instanced modules will kill the persistent world, players are horrible judges of rewards, so modules would just be time killer content that doesn't advance your character or reward you.

Exactly correct, also I think people complaining aren't realizing that PFO is more or less using minimum resources from Paizo. It isn't preventing the creation of a NWN style game being made from the pathfinder license. If a dedicated team approached Lisa tommorow, and showed that they had the means and potential to make a great NWN style game and they wanted to use the Paizo license, odds are the existance of PFO would have little to no bearing on whether Paizo takes that offer up.

Quote:

Hmm... that doesn't sound bad. I hope that they will deliver, but still... why call it MMO then?

I still wish they make it more like NWN.

In response to this, the modules themselves we have no idea how they will impact the rest of the game, if at all. we do know that the developers are focused the strongest on making the rest of the game as a very open sandbox focused on player interaction and conflict. The modules and player content may be just a minigame/added bonus etc... Out of about 7 4 page long blogs, we have barely 2 paragraphs on modules, and one sentence long statement on player created modules that says little more then If it's possible we think it would be cool if we could include player created modules

which leads me to think that is not the primary focus of the game, but a side bonus.

Sczarni Goblin Squad Member

Skeld wrote:
Havoclivekiller wrote:
So why?

I could be misremembering, but I think the OGL precludes using the rules in a computer simulation type of game. WOTC reserved those rights, then licensed them to Atari (hence, NWN). If that's the case, then Paizo and Goblinworks would be breaking the terms of OGL if they created an NWN-style game. Since Paizo owns the IP for Golarion, they're free to create a game that isn't based on the OGL and uses their setting.

I could be wrong.

-Skeld

I'm pretty sure this is correct, meaning that if they made a NWN type game, it would open them up to lawsuits from Wotc

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