So, Apparently NPCs Suck


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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Liberty's Edge

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Okay, Mites are...weird. As a base CR 1/4 I think that technically I can make one 5th level (plus his Mite HD) and still be CR 3. But I think that's b##+~#~* and doesn't fly. So I'm going with their sub-par stats and extra HD cancelling each other out, making the CR 3 4th level and the CR 2s 3rd, if you want to add another level on to those you can do so fairly readily, I think.

Here's the leader, a vicious little bard who can actually do okay in combat, as well as buffing his minions. Who will be a 3rd level Order of the Dragon Cavalier (Beast Rider), and a 3rd level Druid (both with insect companions). And will be up later. Maybe after I sleep.

CR 3
Mite Bard 4
LE Small Fae
Init +4; Senses Perception +9, Darkvision 120 ft. low-light vision, scent,

DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 15, flat-footed 16 (+5 Armor, +4 Dex, +1 Size)
HP 29 (1d6+3d8+9)
Fort +3, Ref +11, Will +8 (+4 vs. language-dependent effects)
DR 2/cold iron
Weakness light sensitivity

OFFENSE
Spd 20 ft., climb 20 ft.
Melee masterwork scimitar +8 (1d4+4/18-20)
Ranged light crossbow +6 (1d6/19-20)

SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES
At-will: Prestidigitation,
1/day: Doom (DC 12)

SPELLS

2nd: 1/day; Glitterdust (DC 13), Mirror Image,
1st: 4/day; Cure Light Wounds, Remove Fear, Silent Image (DC 12), Vanish,
0th: Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Read Magic,

STATISTICS
Str 6, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 12
BAB +3; CMB +0/+6; CMD 14
Feats Dervish Dance, Weapon Finesse, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Scimitar)
Skills: Acrobatics +12, Diplomacy +5, Climb +2, Knowledge (Arcana) +6, Knowledge (Local) +6, Knowledge (Nature) +6, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Linguistics +4, Perception +9, Perform (Dance)+6, Perform (Sing)+9, Stealth +16,
Languages Undercommon, Common,
Special Vermin Empathy +9, Hatred (+1 to hit gnomes and dwarves), Well Versed, Versatile Performance (Can use Perform-Sing for Bluff or Sense Motive), Bardic Performance - 13 rds/day (Inspire Courage +1, Inspire Competence +2, Countersong, Distraction, Fascinate),
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (1),
Gear masterwork scimitar, +1 chain shirt, light crossbow w/20 bolts, dagger, cloak of resistance +1,


Do you object to others posting NPCs here as well?


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Okay, Mites are...weird. As a base CR 1/4 I think that technically I can make one 5th level (plus his Mite HD) and still be CR 3. But I think that's b@&~!!%$ and doesn't fly. So I'm going with their sub-par stats and extra HD cancelling each other out, making the CR 3 4th level and the CR 2s 3rd, if you want to add another level on to those you can do so fairly readily, I think.

I know. I started a whole thread on whether they should be like kobolds and -3 instead of -2 level adj for NPC classes; no general concensus. Regardless thanks a lot for tackling this for me!

I did have one question; he's got a DC on his doom power of 12. The standard mite is a 10 DC. How did this go up if he didn't take the monster feat that raises it by 2? Not that I mind; it's a fun little extra treat you get with mites and I like that it might actually affect someone with the upped DC!

Liberty's Edge

@Bob_Loblaw:

Not per se. Provided they keep the goal of the thread (making NPCs who compare favorably to monsters of similar CR) in mind. I think that thus far all requests have been for me specifically, though.

@Mark Hoover:

No problem. Happy to help. :)

And all spell-like abilities have a DC based on a stat (just like spells). Doom is 1st level spell-equivalent and thus the stat it's DC is based on must be an 8, and I doubt it's Str. It could be Int, I guess, but I made the assumption it was Cha-based (which I believe is standard for such abilities if nothing else is specified), and thus as Cha rose by 4 it rose by 2.


Great work. Thanks for putting up some really great ideas. My last GM insisted that all not monsters in his world all existed so far below normal that it was really sad. Things like stats were all between 3 and 6. No ability to defend them selves (30 skeletons all but destroyed a fortified walled city of 1500 and never had to attack the city, just walk around it.)

Glad to see some very good ideas.

Liberty's Edge

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Okay, Vermin Companions need Int 1 to be really viable, and can't get it till 4th level, so I'm statting these guys at the same level as the Bard. Assume he's leader based on his superior Charisma.

Also, I forgot to add Size to the Bard's attack, it should be +9.

Here they are, a Cavalier on a Beetle and a Druid on a Mantis. The Cavalier activates Tactician, uses Challenge, and runs in and attacks in melee. The Bard starts performing and provides flanking for him (getting them both, and the beetle, +1d6 damage), The Druid will cast Bull's Strength on the Cavalier, then stay back flying either in Wild Shape or on the mantis and casts (Summon Nature's Ally can add more vermin, and he's a bit focused on doing so), if he Wild Shapes (into a Small creature with flight) the Mantis joins in on melee, but he'll only do that if things look desperate as his AC goes way down.

CR 3
Mite Cavalier (Beast Rider, Order of the Dragon) 4
LE Small Fae
Init +2; Senses Perception +8, Darkvision 120 ft. low-light vision, scent,

DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+6 Armor, +2 Dex, +1 Size)
HP 44 (1d6+4d10+14)
Fort +7, Ref +6, Will +5
DR 2/cold iron
Weakness light sensitivity

OFFENSE
Spd 15 ft., climb 15 ft.
Melee masterwork greatsword +8 (1d8+9/19-20) or lance charge +12 (2d6+18/x3)
Ranged composite longbow +8 (1d6+2/x3)

SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES
At-will: Prestidigitation,
1/day: Doom (DC 9)

STATISTICS
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 6
BAB +4; CMB +5; CMD 17
Feats Power Attack, Furious Focus, Mounted Combat,
Skills: Climb +3, Intimidate +2, Handle Animal +6, Perception +9, Ride +10, Sense Motive +5, Stealth +7, Survival +6, Swim +3,
Languages Undercommon,
Special Vermin Empathy +6, Hatred (+1 to hit gnomes and dwarves), Challenge 2/day (+2 to hit for all allies, +4 damage), Tactician 1/day (Grants Precise strike to all allies for 4 rounds), Cavalier's Charge (+4 on charge, no AC penalty), Aid Allies (Provides +3 instead of +2 when aiding another),
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (1), oil of lead blades (2),
Gear masterwork greatsword, masterwork lance, masterwork breastplate, +2 str composite longbow w/20 arrows, dagger, cloak of resistance +1,

N Medium Vermin (Giant Beetle)
Init +0; Senses Perception +4, darkvision

DEFENSE
AC 21, touch 10, flat-footed 21 (+3 Armor, +8 Natural)
HP 26 (4d8+8)
Fort +6, Ref +4, Will +3

OFFENSE
Spd 20 ft. Fly 20 ft (Poor)
Melee bite +6 (1d8+9) (w/power attack)
Special trample (1d4+6, DC 16)

STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 11, Con 15, Int 1, Wis 11, Cha 4
BAB +3; CMB +7; CMD 17
Feats Endurance, Power Attack, Iron Will,
Skills: Fly +1, Perception +4, Survival +4,
Gear Masterwork Studded Leather Barding,

CR 3
Mite Druid 4
NE Small Fae
Init +3; Senses Perception +12, Darkvision 120 ft. low-light vision, scent,

DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 14, flat-footed 16 (+5 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size)
HP 34 (1d6+4d8+9)
Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +10
DR 2/cold iron
Weakness light sensitivity

OFFENSE
Spd 15 ft., climb 15 ft.
Melee dagger +4 (1d5/19-20)
Ranged light crossbow +7 (1d6/19-20)

SPELL-LIKE ABILITIES
At-will: Prestidigitation,
1/day: Doom (DC 9)

SPELLS
2nd: Flaming Sphere (DC 16), Stone Call (DC 17), Summon Swarm,
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Entangle (DC 15), Obscuring Mist, Produce Flame,
0th: Create Water, Detect Magic, Purify Food and Drink, Stabilize,

STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 6
BAB +3; CMB +2; CMD 15
Feats Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, Spell Focus (Conjuration),
Skills: Climb +1, Handle Animal +6, Knowledge (Nature) +10, Perception +12, Ride +8, Stealth +8, Spellcraft +4, Survival +10, Swim +1,
Languages Undercommon,
Special Vermin Empathy +6, Hatred (+1 to hit gnomes and dwarves), Woodland Stride, Wild Shape (4 hours), Resist Nature’s Lure, Trackless Step, Wild Empathy +2,
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (1), wand of cure light wounds (12 charges), wand of bull's strength (5 charges),
Gear hide armor +1, light crossbow w/20 bolts, dagger,

N Medium Vermin (Giant Mantis)
Init +3; Senses Perception +5, darkvision

DEFENSE
AC 21, touch 13, flat-footed 18 (+3 Armor, +3 Dex, +5 Natural)
HP 22 (4d8+4)
Fort +4, Ref +7, Will +2

OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft. Climb 30 ft Fly 40 ft (Average)
Melee 2 claws +5 (1d4 plus Grab)
Special lunge

STATISTICS
Str 11, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 7
BAB +3; CMB +3/6; CMD 16
Feats Endurance, Toughness, Weapon Finesse,
Skills: Fly +7, Perception +5, Stealth +7, Survival +5,
Gear Masterwork Studded Leather Barding,


love this deadman! I want to just come up with wacky ideas and see how they play out!


Deadmanwalking wrote:

@Bob_Loblaw:

Not per se. Provided they keep the goal of the thread (making NPCs who compare favorably to monsters of similar CR) in mind. I think that thus far all requests have been for me specifically, though.

Well if you don't mind, I figured I might offer a few tricks. Kudos on the mystic theurge by the way. ^-^

I've recently grown rather fond of the Extra Traits feat on NPCs, and multi-classed NPCs, particularly concerning multiclassed NPCs with PC/NPC levels.

For example, I had an NPC in a recent game that was a sorcerer 1 / warrior 4 at CR 2. She was a blue-dragon sorcerer (thus claw attacks) who got an extra +1/die on electricity spells. Extra Traits got her a boost to her caster level, and +2 Initiative. Her high HP and burst damage is offset by her low AC and sustained damage.

Quote:

Lady Mia CR 2 (800 XP)

NE Female Humanoid (human) sorcerer (draconic bloodline) 1 / warrior 4
Init +3; Senses Perception +5
DEFENSES
AC 13; touch 11; flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +1 dex)
Hp 41 (4d10+1d6+10); Fort +5, Ref +3, Will +4
OFFENSE
Melee 2 claws +8 (1d4+3)
Deliver touch spell shocking grasp; +3 vs metal (3d6+3)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 3rd)
1st (4/day) – shocking grasp, magic missile
0 – detect magic, detect poison, prestidigitation
Combat Gear potion of mage armor, wand of magic missile (CL 5th, 3 charges);
STATISTICS
Str 17, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 12
Base Atk +4; CMB +7, CMD 18
Feats Weapon Focus (claws), Eschew Materials, Extra Traits (magical knack, reactionary), Toughness, Arcane Armor Training
Skills Bluff +5, Climb +5, Diplomacy +5, Intimidate +5, Knowledge (arcana) +5, Linguistics +5, Perception +9, Ride +5, Spellcraft +5, Swim +5, Use Magic Device +5
Languages common, orc, draconic, elven, goblin, sign language
Equipment combat gear, leather armor, 470 gp


There's something deliciously silly about a giant beetle in leather. HE'S GOT ARMOUR ON HIS ARMOUR, FOLKS!

Liberty's Edge

Vuvu wrote:
love this deadman! I want to just come up with wacky ideas and see how they play out!

Please do! I effectively have no queue at the moment (well, there's a mummy and a vampire I'll probably do, but the time when they would've been truly useful has passed).

And I'm glad you approve. :)

Ashiel wrote:
Well if you don't mind, I figured I might offer a few tricks. Kudos on the mystic theurge by the way. ^-^

Thanks. :)

I really like building characters that, while effective, are completely incapable of functioning in a traditional adventuring party. IMO, it adds some definite depth to the world, and allows some really fun builds, of which that guy's a great example.

Ashiel wrote:
I've recently grown rather fond of the Extra Traits feat on NPCs, and multi-classed NPCs, particularly concerning multiclassed NPCs with PC/NPC levels.

Oh, sure. I was deeply tempted on the aforementioned Mystic Theurge, actually. But the rules are a little shaky on that Feat being allowed in games where Traits are not used, and I'm going for maximum utility (and a certain degree of 'by-the-bookness').

Ashiel wrote:
For example, I had an NPC in a recent game that was a sorcerer 1 / warrior 4 at CR 2. She was a blue-dragon sorcerer (thus claw attacks) who got an extra +1/die on electricity spells. Extra Traits got her a boost to her caster level, and +2 Initiative. Her high HP and burst damage is offset by her low AC and sustained damage.

Nice. :)

In the spirit of the thread:

While I'm inclined to go by your ruling, I think the rules technically make her CR 4. And giver her significantly more GP. A Mithral Chain Shirt +1 and a Greatsword (for backup) would probably actually equal her out at about CR 4, if you desired.

Twigs wrote:
There's something deliciously silly about a giant beetle in leather. HE'S GOT ARMOUR ON HIS ARMOUR, FOLKS!

Heh. :)

It is indeed more than a bit silly. It would work fairly well, though. I mean, it's another layer, and one including metal. You can even make it look cool, if done properly.

The Exchange

Twigs wrote:
There's something deliciously silly about a giant beetle in leather. HE'S GOT ARMOUR ON HIS ARMOUR, FOLKS!

Yo, Dawg, we heard you liked armor on your armor, so we armored your armor so you could armor your armored armor, dawg.

EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I would like to see a Kobold Samurai. No mount, Swordsaint veriety. It looks really cool in my mind.

Liberty's Edge

Tirq wrote:
EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, I would like to see a Kobold Samurai. No mount, Swordsaint veriety. It looks really cool in my mind.

Kobold Samurai coming right up. Probably pretty high level, actually.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, here he is, an epically badass small creature of humble origins. He's a bit weak defensively for his CR...but his offense is utterly ridiculous against anyone he's Challenged. I mean, 1d4+24 five times a round, and likely more than one crit per round? That's nasty.

If given time to buff he downs his potions for +4 AC, +2 to hit and on saves, and +30 HP, but he doesn't really need them. The order is Barkskin, Heroism, Bear's Endurance, just in case it's relevant.

He starts by moving up, Challenging, and iajutsuing someone. He then full attacks them. Yeah, that's just mean.

And he's sneaky to boot.

CR 14
Kobold Samurai (Sword Saint Ronin) 15
CN Medium Humanoid
Init +6; Senses Perception +18, darkvision 60 ft.

DEFENSE
AC 28, touch 20, flat-footed 21 (+7 Armor, +6 Dex, +1 Deflection, +1 Natural Armor, +1 Size, +1 Dodge, +1 Insight)
HP 132 (15d10+45)
Fort +13, Ref +14, Will +11

OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Iajutsu attack +24 (1d4+8d6+9), Two Wakizashis +22/+22/+17/+17/+12 (1d4+9/15-20)
Ranged longbow +21/+16/+11 (1d6-2/×3)
Special iajutsu strike +8d6

STATISTICS
Str 6, Dex 22*, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 8
BAB +15; CMB +13/+23; CMD 31
Feats Dodge, Double Slice, Improved Critical (Wakizashi), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Iron Will, Toughness, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Wakizashi), Weapon Specialization (Wakizashi),
Skills: Climb +2, Craft (Trapmaking) +7, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Handle Animal +5, Knowledge (Local) +15, Linguistics +3, Perception +18, Ride +10, Sense Motive +18, Stealth +28, Survival +13, Swim +2,
Languages Common, Tian, Draconic, Minkai,
Special Challenge 4/day (+4 to hit and AC if he has also been challenged, +15 damage), Brutal Slash (+7), Terrifying Iajutsu (DC 24), Roaring Iajutsu (DC 23), Self Reliant (May reroll Will Saves one turn later), Without Master (1/combat), Chosen Destiny (1/day), Resolve and Greater Resolve (8/day), Honorable Stand (1/day), Demanding Challenge,
Combat Gear potion of cure serious wounds (1), potion of bear's endurance (1), potion of heroism (1), potion of barkskin (CL 12th) (1),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +3, Mithral Chain Shirt +3, Two Agile +1 Wakizashis, Belt of Dexterity +2, Ring of Protection +1, Amulet of Natural Armor +1, Ring of Sustenance, Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone, longbow w/20 arrows,


deadite: un be FREAKING leiveable!

Liberty's Edge

Mark Hoover wrote:
deadite: un be FREAKING leiveable!

I assume this expresses approval. :)

I do endeavor to please. Any additional requests?

The Exchange

I never even thought of using a Wakizashi. I think that he should also have a Weapon Cord. That way, he can have one out, move then attack, and then Free action to drop the one in hand, Iajutsustrike, pick up the one that was dropped, and then 2 weapon fight. That would be devistating.

This is brilliant.

Liberty's Edge

Tirq wrote:

I never even thought of using a Wakizashi. I think that he should also have a Weapon Cord. That way, he can have one out, move then attack, and then Free action to drop the one in hand, Iajutsustrike, pick up the one that was dropped, and then 2 weapon fight. That would be devistating.

This is brilliant.

Iajutsu Strike cannot be used in the same round as any other attacks since, like Vital Strike it's it's own special type of Standard Action.

Still, you're quite right about the Weapon Cords. Consider them officially added.


How about a gnome magus? Pick user, if you would.

Edit: Not a Gnome hooked hammer, thought I should add that.

Liberty's Edge

Borthos Brewhammer wrote:
How about a gnome magus? Pick user, if you would.

That's...singularly arbitrary. Sure. Have something up in a bit.


I figured I'd give you a challenge ;)

I've loved them all so far

Liberty's Edge

Okay, Gnome Magus good to go. Like most spellcasters, he needs a couple of rounds to get fully prepped (and will take at least three, for Mirror Image, Shield, and Haste in that order). He'll use Invisibility for this if he can.

That said, he has the advantage of being able to attack while he does that if necessary, followed by Spellstriking with Shocking Grasp and his other Touch spells. Accurate Strike is particularly nasty. His critcal hits also do something like 56 points of damage average even when not Spellstriking. With Shocking Grasp added in that goes up to 126 and will kil most things in a single hit.

For that reason, he's maybe a little too unreliable to be a good PC adversary. He might crit a few times and wipe the party...or not at all and be too easy.

CR 10
Gnome Magus 11
N Small Humanoid
Init +4; Senses Perception +14, low-light vision,

DEFENSE
AC 22, touch 15, flat-footed 18 (+7 Armor, +3 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Dodge)
HP 108 (11d8+55)
Fort +11, Ref +8, Will +9

OFFENSE
Spd 15 ft.
Melee light pick +18/+13 (1d3+12/19-20x4) (includes Arcane Pool and Arcane Strike) or Spell Combat +16/+11 or Spell Combt/Spellstrike +16/+16/+11 (with the second one adding on Shocking Grasp or another Touch spell)
Ranged composite longbow +12/+7 (1d6-1/19-20)

SPELLS
4th: Black Tentacles, Greater Invisibility,
3rd: Dispel Magic, Flight, Haste, Vampiric Touch,
2nd: Bear's Endurance, Blur, Glitterdust (DC 14), Invisibility, Mirror Image,
1st: Shield, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp, Shocking Grasp,
0th: Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation, Read Magic,

STATISTICS
Str 8, Dex 18*, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 10
BAB +8; CMB +6/11; CMD 21
Feats Arcane Strike, Combat Casting, Dodge, Improved Critical (Light Pick), Toughness, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (Light Pick), Weapon Specialization (Light Pick),
Skills: Fly +16, Knowledge (Arcana) +16, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Knowledge (Planes) +6, Perception +14, Spellcraft +16,
Languages Common, Gnome, Sylvan, Draconic, Giant,
Special Arcane Pool (7), Spell Combat, Spell Strike, Magus Arcana (Accurate Strike, Concentrate, Disruptive), Spell Recall, Knowledge Pool, Medium Armor, Improved Spell Combat, Fighter Training, Improved Spell Recall,
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds (1),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +1, Breastplate +1, Belt of Dexterity +2, Agile Light Pick +1, composite longbow w/20 arrows, dagger,


That is nice. Never would've thought about the agile weapon, that's usually not my play style.
He could be used as a BBEG probably. Especially with that nasty crit damage.

How about a Halfling Inquisitor?


How about a Kitsune brawling cleric?

Because that seems like such a wacky combo it has to be awesome.

Liberty's Edge

@Borthos Brewhammer:

Well it is mine under the circumstances. :)

And it's up to you waht you use him as...I'm just leery of people who do something as swingy as x4 crits going up against PCs. I think he'd be a better villain with another weapon.

And sure. Halfling archer Inquisitor coming right up.

@Red Silvers:

Yeah, that's kinda weird. Kitsune Cleric of Irori right after the Halfling.

Liberty's Edge

Okay, Halfling Inquisitor it is. His AC is high and his HP low, his offense is good with just Bane, but beter if he has time to buff (the potions of Cat's Grace are especially nice). His saves are also phenomenal. He works like any other Inquisitor.

CR 5
Halfling Inquisitor (Desna) 6
CN Small Humanoid
Init +6; Senses Perception +13,

DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 15, flat-footed 16 (+5 Armor, +4 Dex, +1 Size)
HP 42 (6d8+12)
Fort +8, Ref +8, Will +9

OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee starknife +5 (1d3/x3)
Ranged composite longbow +10 (1d6/x3) or Rapid Shot +8/+8 (1d6/x3)

SPELLS
2nd: 4/day; Flames of the Faithful, Invisibility, Resist Energy, Spiritual Weapon,
1st: 5/day; Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, Expeditious Retreat, Shield of Faith,
0th: Acid Splash, Create Water, Detect Magic, Light, Read Magic, Stabilize,

STATISTICS
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 10
BAB +4; CMB +6; CMD 21
Feats Point Blank Shot, Precise shot, Rapid Shot, Escape Route*, Enfilading Fire*,
Skills: Acrobatics +6, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Climb +6, Intimidate +7, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +4, Knowledge (Nature) +6, Knowledge (Planes) +4, Knowledge (Religion) +9, Linguistics +1, Perception +13, Sense Motive +9, Spellcraft +6, Stealth +17, Survival +6, Swim +4,
Languages Common, Halfling, Varisian,
Special Travel Domain (Agile Feet-5/day), Solo Tactics, Cunning Initiative, Detect Alignment, Track, Monster Lore (+2), Stern Gaze (+3), Judgement (2/day), Discern Lies (6 rds/day), Bane (6 rds/day),
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds (1), potion of cat's grace (2), scroll of see invisibility (2), wand of cure light wounds (16 charges),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +1, Mithral Chain Shirt +1, Masterwork Composite Longbow w/40 arrows, Starknife, Dagger, Holy Symbol,


Brambleman wrote:
I was not expecting dazzling display.

Reminds me of how I was not expecting the tiger animal companion. Still can't believe I forgot about animal companions...[/grumble]

The twice-armored beetle is great! :)

Sczarni

Deadmanwalking wrote:
I've seen a lot of posts ...

I had concieved of a human fighter with multiple Fleet Feats, Run Feat, and the great cleave line, and the overrun line...

Basically the fighter ends up being able to run about 150 feet and attack almost everyone in his path... so long as there are people in his path... and if you throw in a 5' reach skill like lunge... well, bystanders get hit too...

I didn't work it all out, but the concept certainly looked almost as humorous as the "I attack a blade of grass and take a 5 foot step as a free action until I am all the way across the country" like back in good old 3.5 (if you allowed a blade of grass be an opponent - I never did).

Sczarni

Deadmanwalking wrote:

Okay, here he is, an epically badass small creature of humble origins. He's a bit weak defensively for his CR...but his offense is utterly ridiculous against anyone he's Challenged. I mean, 1d4+24 five times a round, and likely more than one crit per round? That's nasty.

If given time to buff he downs his potions for +4 AC, +2 to hit and on saves, and +30 HP, but he doesn't really need them. The order is Barkskin, Heroism, Bear's Endurance, just in case it's relevant.

He starts by moving up, Challenging, and iajutsuing someone. He then full attacks them. Yeah, that's just mean.

And he's sneaky to boot.

CR 14
Kobold Samurai (Sword Saint Ronin) 15
CN Medium Humanoid
Init +6; Senses Perception +18, darkvision 60 ft.

DEFENSE
AC 28, touch 20, flat-footed 21 (+7 Armor, +6 Dex, +1 Deflection, +1 Natural Armor, +1 Size, +1 Dodge, +1 Insight)
HP 132 (15d10+45)
Fort +13, Ref +14, Will +11

OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Iajutsu attack +24 (1d4+8d6+9), Two Wakizashis +22/+22/+17/+17/+12 (1d4+9/15-20)
Ranged longbow +21/+16/+11 (1d6-2/×3)
Special iajutsu strike +8d6

STATISTICS
Str 6, Dex 22*, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 8

Level X cleric/mage/sorc casts Symbol of Weakness... Ronin fails to roll a 21 on his save... Falls over being crushed by the weight of his own mighty swords... lol.


Ooh, this topic looks fun.

Alright, could I see a Druid 3/Cavalier 4 (that being a CR 6 NPC I believe)? I'm not too concerned about race, just want to see what you come up with.


ok a mounted halfling slinger!

And a halfling focused on using the Halfling Jinx!

Lets say level 11

Liberty's Edge

maouse wrote:
I didn't work it all out, but the concept certainly looked almost as humorous as the "I attack a blade of grass and take a 5 foot step as a free action until I am all the way across the country" like back in good old 3.5 (if you allowed a blade of grass be an opponent - I never did).

Oh, you can do all kinds of silly things with the rules. :)

Armored beetles aside, though, that's not really the point of this thread per se.

maouse wrote:
Level X cleric/mage/sorc casts Symbol of Weakness... Ronin fails to roll a 21 on his save... Falls over being crushed by the weight of his own mighty swords... lol.

He's a kobold, what are you gonna do?

Also, he can use Chosen Destiny to simply succeed at one of those Saves, then use Resolve to be really unlikely to fail at others (less than a 1/8 chance even without potions, with them he has less than a 1/40 chance of failure).
.
.
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@Gluttony: Will do...though it'd be a lot better mechanically at Druid 4/Cavalier 3.

@Vuvu: You...really like Halflings, huh?

Well, so do I (if perhaps not quite as much), so I can hardly complain. Sure Jinx-user and mounted slinger (probably a Luring Cavalier), coming up after the Kitsune and the Druid/Cavalier


deadman, actually i have never played one, but i do love the flavor that they have (gnomes too). I usually use humans, i love having the extra skills and feat.

I also find them impossible to even theorize how to make them vicious. I have this lovely image of the party being approached and threatened by a halfling. and of course everyone laughs. then it proceeds to beat them down. awesome. I also love the idea of martial gnomes.


Vuvu wrote:
I also find them impossible to even theorize how to make them vicious. I have this lovely image of the party being approached and threatened by a halfling. and of course everyone laughs. then it proceeds to beat them down. awesome. I also love the idea of martial gnomes.

The feat "Childlike" combined with a halfling Lich that tells the adventurers he escaped from a nearby fortress that was keeping him and others as slaves and beating mercilessly. Bard + Lich = Awesome.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
@Gluttony: Will do...though it'd be a lot better mechanically at Druid 4/Cavalier 3.

I know. But it's more interesting to see what you come up with for the less mechanically good way. ;)


Or if you really want a challenge deadman combine the jinxer and slinger!

Sovereign Court

you can build an NPC character based on PC class levels and he'd be on par with their strength. only in PFS where you can't change scenarios are you really limited.

throw +200hp on your guys or fluff a few stats/saves. easy to tailor

Liberty's Edge

I'm going with the same ruling as PFS where being a Cleric of Irori grants IUS.

She's probably best in a group doing healing and such as needed, but she's decent in melee if properly buffed (Shield of Faith, Blessing of Fervor, Bear's Endurance, Divine Favor, and Cat's Grace).

If alone, she'll open with Summon Monster V and try to stay back and buff for a bit.

CR 8
Kitsune Cleric (Irori) 9
LE Medium Humanoid
Init +4; Senses Perception +11, low-light vision,

DEFENSE
AC 19, touch 15, flat-footed 16 (+5 Armor, +4 Dex)
HP 62 (9d8+18)
Fort +7, Ref +8, Will +9

OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +8/+8/+3 (1d3+4) and Bite +5 (1d4+4)
Ranged composite longbow +10 (1d8/19-20)

SPELLS
5th: Summon Monster V, Breath of Life*
4th: Blessing of Fervor, Freedom of Movement, Cure Critical Wounds*
3rd: Dispel Magic, Invisibility Purge, Wind Wall, Cure Serious Wounds*,
2nd: Bear's Endurance, Grace, Resist Energy, Spiritual Weapon, Weapon of Awe, Align Weapon (Lawful)*,
1st: Bless, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Sun Metal, Sun Metal, Cure Light Wounds*
0th: Create Water, Detect Magic, Light, Stabilize,

STATISTICS
Str 6, Dex 18, Con 13, Int 12, Wis 15, Cha 12
BAB +6; CMB +4/10; CMD 18
Feats Combat Casting, Crane Style, Crane Wing, Improved Unarmed Strike, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse,
Skills: Acrobatics +6, Diplomacy +7, Knowledge (History) +5, Knowledge (Nobility) +5, Knowledge (Planes) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +13, Linguistics +5, Perception +11, Sense Motive +7, Spellcraft +5,
Languages Common, Celestial, Tien, Senzar,
Special Domains (Healing, Law), Change Shape, Rebuke Death 5/day, Healer's Blessing (All Cures are Empowered), Touch of Law (5/day), Staff of Order (1/day for 8 rounds), Channel Positive Energy 5d6 (DC 16) 5/day,
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds (1), potion of cat's grace (2), scroll of see invisibility (1), wand of cure light wounds (16 charges),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +1, Mithral Chain Shirt +1, Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, Light Crossbow w/20 bolts, Dagger, Holy Symbol,

Liberty's Edge

Vuvu wrote:
Or if you really want a challenge deadman combine the jinxer and slinger!

That...really doesn't work. Both are too Feat Intensive, and the Jinxer relies on being a spellcaster, so no Fighter to take up the slack.

I could make a slinger who happens to have the Jinx racial trait, and maybe even a Feat or two on it, but he wouldn't be a Jinxer as I'd define the term.

Nezthalak wrote:

you can build an NPC character based on PC class levels and he'd be on par with their strength. only in PFS where you can't change scenarios are you really limited.

throw +200hp on your guys or fluff a few stats/saves. easy to tailor

Well, yes, that's possible. But you don't need to do it. NPCs created entirely within the rules are pretty on-par with monsters of their CR, and I stand by this assertion.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Deadman

if you are up with a new challenge !! here is mine !!

A tiefling assassin, ray's spells specialist !!!!

level range 10 - 15

Liberty's Edge

ORRUN wrote:

Deadman

if you are up with a new challenge !! here is mine !!

A tiefling assassin, ray's spells specialist !!!!

level range 10 - 15

Sure. He's on the list right after the two Halflings and the Druid/Cavalier. I'm going to a movie with friends tonight, so I'd expect to get that far sometime tomorrow-ish.


ORRUN wrote:

Deadman

if you are up with a new challenge !! here is mine !!

A tiefling assassin, ray's spells specialist !!!!

level range 10 - 15

Level range, or CR range? There's a huge difference when it comes to NPCs. :3

Liberty's Edge

Okay, here's a bizarre fellow who loves his pet tiger. Due to Ride By Attack and Pounce (plus maybe Longstrider) he's got some hilarious potential damage with the Tiger and he. Especially if he's challenged you.

His HP are low, and his AC is high. His attack is about right, and his damage (when charging) is ridiculous. He gets much nastier if given time to buff, but unlike many of these builds that use that strategy, in no way requires it.

He should be encountered out-of-doors. For maximum usefulness.

CR 6
Human Cavalier (Beast Rider, Order of the Sword) 4/Druid 3
NG Medium Humanoid
Init +1; Senses Perception +12

DEFENSE
AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 20 (+9 Armor, +1 Dex)
HP 58 (4d10+3d8+18)
Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +7

OFFENSE
Spd 20 ft.
Melee Greatsword +11/+4 (2d6+12/19-20)
Ranged longbow +8/+3 (1d8+4/×3)

SPELLS
2nd: Bull's Strength, Barkskin,
1st: Cure Light Wounds, Faerie Fire, Longstrider,
0th: Create Water, Detect Magic, Light, Stabilize,

STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
BAB +6; CMB +10; CMD 21
Feats Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride By Attack, Furious Focus, Toughness,
Skills: Diplomacy +5, Handle Animal +9, Heal +6, Knowledge (Geography) +4, Knowledge (Nobility) +4, Knowledge (Nature) +10, Knowledge (Religion) +4, Perception +12, Ride +11, Sense Motive +6, Survival +8,
Languages Common, Hallit,
Special Challenge 2/day (+2 to hit if riding mount, +4 damage), Tactician 1/day (Shielded Caster, 5 rounds), Wild Empathy +2, Woodland stride, Trackless Step, Devotion (NG, +2 Reflex), Cavalier's Charge (+4 on atacks while charging, no AC penalty),
Combat Gear potion of cure light wounds (2), wand of magic fang (18 charges), wand of cure light wounds (11 charges), wand of bear's endurance (5 charges), wand of bull's strength (2 charges),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +1, Masterwork Stone Plate, Masterwork Greatsword, Composite Longbow (+4 Str) w/40 arrows,

N Large Animal (Tiger)
Init +3; Senses Perception +8, low light vision, scent
DEFENSE
AC 23, touch 12, flat-footed 20 (+4 Armor, +3 Dex, +7 Natural, -1 Size)
HP 51 (6d8+24)
Fort +9, Ref +9, Will +7
OFFENSE
Spd 40 ft.
Melee Bite +9 (1d8+6), 2 claws +9 (1d6+6)
Special Pounce, Grab, Rake (1d6+9)
STATISTICS
Str 23, Dex 17, Con 17, Int 3, Wis 15, Cha 10
BAB +4; CMB +11; CMD 24
Feats Endurance, Light Armor Proficiency, Power Attack, Iron Will,
Skills: Acrobatics +7, Perception +8, Stealth +2, Survival +6,
Gear Masterwork Chain Shirt Barding, Cloak of Resistance +1,


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Ashiel wrote:
ORRUN wrote:

Deadman

if you are up with a new challenge !! here is mine !!

A tiefling assassin, ray's spells specialist !!!!

level range 10 - 15

Level range, or CR range? There's a huge difference when it comes to NPCs. :3

true, i meant CR, sorry

Liberty's Edge

Okay, so here's a Halfling Slinger. As a luring cavalier, he's basically designed to use his mount's mobility to stay at range and pick people of with Full Attacks.

His HP are a little low, but a quick potion fixes that, and other than that, him plus a Challenge is really pretty hardcore offensively.

If he gets trapped in melee, his pet will handle it, or try to.

CR 10
Halfling Cavalier (Beast Rider, Order of the Sword) 11
CN Medium Humanoid
Init +5; Senses Perception +12

DEFENSE
AC 24, touch 17, flat-footed 19 (+7 Armor, +5 Dex, +1 Size, +1 Deflection)
HP 98 (11d10+33)
Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +10

OFFENSE
Spd 20 ft.
Melee longsword +12/+7 (1d6+1/19-20)
Ranged Sling +13/+13/+8/+3 (1d3+7) (w/ Deadly Aim and Rapid Shot),

STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 20*, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10
BAB +11; CMB +11; CMD 26
Feats Deadly Aim, Iron Will, Mounted Archery, Mounted Combat, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Shot,
Skills: Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Handle Animal +14, Knowledge (Nobility) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Perception +14, Ride +19, Sense Motive +7,
Languages Common, Halfling,
Special Far Challenge 4/day (+3 to hit if riding mount, +11 damage), Tactician 3/day (Stealth Synergy, Enfilading Fire), Devotion (CN, +2 Will), Careful Aim, Infuriating Aim, Warslinger Racial Trait,
Combat Gear potion of cure moderate wounds (1), potion of bull's strength (1), potion of barkskin (1), potion of heroism (1), potion of bear's endurance (1),
Gear Cloak of Resistance +1, Belt of Dexterity +2, Mithra1 Breastplate +1, Sling +1 w/40 bullets, Ring of Protection +1,

N Medium Animal (Deinonychus)
Init +4; Senses Perception +11, low light vision, scent
DEFENSE
AC 26, touch 13, flat-footed 22 (+4 Armor, +4 Dex, +9 Natural, -1 Size)
HP 94 (9d8+45)
Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +7
OFFENSE
Spd 60 ft.
Melee Bite +10 (1d6+4), 2 claws +10 (1d4+4), 2 talons +10 (1d8+4)
Special Pounce
STATISTICS
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 14
BAB +6; CMB +11; CMD 24
Feats Endurance, Light Armor Proficiency, Power Attack, Iron Will, Multiattack, Toughnes,
Skills: Acrobatics +8, Perception +11, Stealth +7, Survival +5,
Gear Masterwork Chain Shirt Barding, Cloak of Resistance +1,


Neat, a tiger rider! (Might just try that out at some point)

Well now let's see, I think you've still got the halfling jinxer and tiefling assassin coming, but after that I'd like to see what you'd do with a 12th level dwarven ninja.


oooo I love the slinger! I might make one for PFS!


Ok DM dubble to the u... I have a REAL challenge for you. Everyone says 1) wizards are squishy and 2) the undisputed masters of familiar use are witches. I want to prove both the witch lovers and the wizard haters wrong, while also showing that a 9th level NPC wizard can challenge a party as much as, say, a young blue dragon (TOOOO SAAAANNNNDDDDD!!!)

So my request is: build me a human wizard 9 with a familiar. I'll let you choose the familiar and how he uses it, but I'd like to see the thing ACTUALLY factor into combat somehow (direct attacker, transmogrified flanker, whatever). My only request, for flavor sake and to keep the nay-sayers at bay, is that the familiar 1) be the original animal the wizard started with (none of this Improved Familiar cop out non-sense!) and 2 have it be at least reminiscent of it's original form.

I have had this debate both on these forums and for a couple of years with a buddy that familiars are worthless. Incidentally he's also someone that told me that the NPC classes were garbage until a human Warrior 4 supported by a trained war-hound scored a lucky crit and proceeded to outlast his barbarian 3. Good times...

Anyway; BECAUSE I'm such a staunch defender of original familiars AND NPCs, I'll be watching with RAPT attention!

Liberty's Edge

@Gluttony:

Tiger-riding combined with Ride By Attack is surprisingly vicious, since the ride-by counts as a charge. Also, Tiger-riding is a lot of fun. :)

And Dwarven Ninja is added to the list. Though I'm a little busy today, so that slinger may be it till tomorrow. We'll see.

@Vuvu:

Good luck with that, though he (and your character) would just be flat-out better as an archer, speaking optimally. Of course, caring about optimization isn't always a huge deal, I admit. :)

@Mark Hoover:

Ooh, interesting. Definitely added to the cue, and we'll see what I can whip up. Ranged touch attack spells of some sort and Greater Invisibility are likely to be involved if this comes off as I'm envisioning.


I've got one. I always thought the expert class would be a viable (even if completely sub-optimal) combat threat. Prove me right. ;)

I'm thinking 1h weapon and buckler focusing on one or more combat manoeuvres would probably be best. Character level range 10-13.

Liberty's Edge

wombatkidd wrote:

I've got one. I always thought the expert class would be a viable (even if completely sub-optimal) combat threat. Prove me right. ;)

I'm thinking 1h weapon and buckler focusing on one or more combat manoeuvres would probably be best. Character level range 10-13.

They're as viable as any other NPC class...which isn't very at high levels.

I can absolutely make, say, a level 8 Expert who's a CR 6 threat. By 10-13, though? As a CR 8-11 threat? That's gonna be really iffy. I'll certainly try, but it's gonna take some serious doing on a couple of different levels.

And I disagree completely on build, that's a Feat intensive build best suported with high stats and BAB...all things the Expert simply does not have. I'll try and whip something up, though.

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