how to build a mechanical tinkerer

[Vuvu]

want to make an npc that uses "science" obviously he will be equipped w a gun or 2 but I don't want to make a gunslinger, he needs lots of skills.

ideas? Rogue maybe, w the right talents to use guns.

also any good ideas of other items he might utilize?

[hatenull]

Re-flavor an Alchemist to use little devices to achieve his effects instead of extracts and mutagens. He could have a gun in addition to the bombs and his little clockwork contraptions that create wondrous effects.

You could even explain that he's experimented on himself to some visible extent that makes these unique creations work on him they way they do.

[Warclam]

I'm looking into a similar sort of character, actually. I'm not looking into using guns, but the gizmomancer idea is something I'm trying to put together.

I looked into the Alchemist, but it seems rather unsatisfactory how you need to jump through hoops to produce things that do stuff to things which are not you. It also breaks my suspension of disbelief a little to have a daily limit for that sort of thing, which Alchemists do with their extracts.

Vuvu, you might take a glance at the Arcane Craft feat. It's third party, and intended to be for a specific race, but you can bend that a little for an NPC. He could make little cantrip-powered gizmos by faking Craft Wondrous Item, and could use "chemistry" to brew potions.

For a base class, I've been debating that myself. Spells can keep the craft check DCs lower, and wizards get crafty spells like crafter's fortune and continual flame. On the other hand, it seems unsatisfactory to use a wizard of all things for an engineer, and the skill points of a rogue or ninja are appealing. I don't have a solution yet that satisfies me.

[Venshad]

You can make him an Expert, with Knowledge Engineering and maybe a Skill Focus (Engineering).

Unfortunately PF does not offers many mechanical contraptions, but I guess you could rule that any spell from 3rd level or lower can be made as a kind of gyzmo, using the rules for crafting magic stuff (with charges per day).

[Doktor Archeville]

Warclam wrote:

I looked into the Alchemist, but it seems rather unsatisfactory how you need to jump through hoops to produce things that do stuff to things which are not you. It also breaks my suspension of disbelief a little to have a daily limit for that sort of thing, which Alchemists do with their extracts.

The tiny devices have delicate clockwork mechanisms that cannot (easily) be rewound in the field, or are powered by batteries/crystals that run out quickly and require a lengthy recharge time?

[Timothy K. Wickham]

Doktor Archeville wrote:

Warclam wrote:

I looked into the Alchemist, but it seems rather unsatisfactory how you need to jump through hoops to produce things that do stuff to things which are not you. It also breaks my suspension of disbelief a little to have a daily limit for that sort of thing, which Alchemists do with their extracts.

The tiny devices have delicate clockwork mechanisms that cannot (easily) be rewound in the field, or are powered by batteries/crystals that run out quickly and require a lengthy recharge time?

Good logic - I *might* steal this for a home game. It certainly provides something to think about.

[DrkMagusX]

This sounds interesting. I m curious to see how this could become a well balanced new base class or archtype to a alchemist. I m sure if we all work togather we can get something good going.

[Warclam]

Doktor Archeville wrote:

Warclam wrote:

I looked into the Alchemist, but it seems rather unsatisfactory how you need to jump through hoops to produce things that do stuff to things which are not you. It also breaks my suspension of disbelief a little to have a daily limit for that sort of thing, which Alchemists do with their extracts.

The tiny devices have delicate clockwork mechanisms that cannot (easily) be rewound in the field, or are powered by batteries/crystals that run out quickly and require a lengthy recharge time?

That makes perfect sense, but I'm afraid that's not what I was talking about. I meant A) that extracts only work on their creator, and the potion-like effects really don't resonate with a tech vibe; and B) being only able to build a certain number of machines a day feels distinctly off. I suppose maybe they're powered by your own mystical energy.

I feel like that kind of reskinning would suit a wizard better, actually. You can prepare some gizmos in the morning, and leave some 'gizmo slots' open that you can take 15 minutes later to 'build'. Still limited per day, but alchemists have to cope with that too.

The wizard spell list is also far better-suited to this. Personal buffing spells and the like are hard to explain as machines, but others are less tricky: rays are laser guns, figments are miniature hologram projectors, divinations send out tiny flying probes…

[DrkMagusX]

can you provide us with examples of gizmos? Are they like tiny mechanical spiders that crawl and inject the spell? There has to be a limit to keep a player from stockpiling gizmos . Sure one per day but in a month that's a lot.

[Vuvu]

For my particular NPC Iike the arcane craft idea. It will involve a little handwaving as well, but that is ok.

I am leaning toward a rogue base, but he builds mechanical items that have to recharge daily, after x uses. Have a handheld item that when prepped and thrown creates a Flare burst, or another one that he throws and it acts as a Create Pit spell etc. I would alter UMD to use INT for him and it is Use Mechanical Device. I think he will not have items that work like wands, hence why he will use guns as well. Probably have things that would grant barkskin, mage armor and invis as well.

I think that is how he will work

[Warclam]

DrkMagusX wrote:

can you provide us with examples of gizmos? Are they like tiny mechanical spiders that crawl and inject the spell? There has to be a limit to keep a player from stockpiling gizmos . Sure one per day but in a month that's a lot.

Yes, it's restricted to the wizard's spells per day. There's no actual mechanical change here, it's just saying that when, say, I cast colour spray, I'm not actually casting a spell; instead, I'm flipping a switch on a flashbulb clipped to my sleeve. When you reach for your material components, you're actually grabbing your "spell" that you built earlier. When you switch out an uncast "spell" for something else in the morning, you're dismantling a gadget and cannibalizing its power source for another. That kind of thing.