Opportunity Grab

[Antitheas]

Hello

The case is like that. I must have 100% certainty. Is there such a thing as Opportunity Grab? example;
My character withdraws from the fight by provoking occasional attacks. Monsters have the ability to bite-grab. And here is the question whether they can perform grab? In an attack of opportunity?

[Benly]

Antitheas wrote:

Hello

The case is like that. I must have 100% certainty. Is there such a thing as Opportunity Grab? example;
My character withdraws from the fight by provoking occasional attacks. Monsters have the ability to bite-grab. And here is the question whether they can perform grab? In an attack of opportunity?

Creatures with the Grab ability can use it on an attack of opportunity. You cannot otherwise initiate a grapple on an attack of opportunity.

[Frankthedm]

Technically no you don't have access to free actions during an AoO other than talking, so you can't quickdraw to a new weapon during an AoO or activate Grab after a stressful AoO.

That said, I've read a few posts by folks who do allow such things, so don't be surprised if a GM does let big grabby critter start a grab off an AoO.

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5e6x?Can-you-use-Improved-Grab-or-Snatch-on-an- Attack

[Antitheas]

Thanks for this link. Now it's time to talk with my MG: D I do not know what but I think he wants to kill me or something like this: P

[Talonhawke]

It's important to note Antitheas that taling is not the only free action you can do out of turn.

Arrows can be drawn out of turn as clarified in a recent FAQ so its really in the realm of GM decision at this point.

However this is a good issue to get cleared up with a DM since it funtions on both ends of the table. If his wolves get free trips on AoO then so would the parties druids wolf. So talk with him as a group so you will all know what your table rule on these type of actions are.

[Frankthedm]

Talonhawke wrote:

It's important to note Antitheas that taling is not the only free action you can do out of turn.

Arrows can be drawn out of turn as clarified in a recent FAQ so its really in the realm of GM decision at this point.

Don't misrepresent that FAQ entry. Those arrows can only be drawn out of turn if you have the Snap shot feat.

Snap Shot: Can a character with Snap Shot (page 119) and Combat Reflexes make multiple attacks of opportunity with a ranged weapon, assuming that loading the ranged weapon is a free action?
Yes. As long as you can reload your weapon with a free action you can reload your weapon as part of the ranged attack attack of opportunity you are making with the Snap Shot feat.

—Stephen Radney-MacFarland, 10/13/11

[Talonhawke]

It's not only if you have snap shot. The same ruling applies to the Zen archer who has an ability (big hint here its not Snap Shot) to make AoO with a bow.

And the point i was making is that if the free action is a rider to another ability it can happen on an AoO. But only if it is part of an ability that can be used with an AoO.

By your reasoning If I readied an action with a bow and took an AoO before the ready was used I now have no arrow to use with my readied action since I can't reload as part of the readied action only with snap shot.

[Stikye]

I tend to generally let me players play with how they interpret the rules, and then just remind them Npcs can do the same thing. They are going to hate me soon since every dex based character of theirs seems to take Dancing dervish, and npcs have much higher dexs.

So that being said, In my games, Creatures with grab get the free grapple check on their attacks, in my interpretation is that it is part of the attack.

[blahpers]

That is confusing. Free actions are supposed to be only on your turn, yet clearly there are some free actions that are allowed, including at least one free action (drawing an arrow via Snap Shot) that required FAQ, as RAW did not allow it.

Given the ambiguity, I would rule like Stikye that the grab ability is part of the attack and therefore fair game during an attack of opportunity.

[Frankthedm]

Talonhawke wrote:

By your reasoning If I readied an action with a bow and took an AoO before the ready was used I now have no arrow to use with my readied action since I can't reload as part of the readied action only with snap shot.

Correct, RAW you'd have no arrow to fire. I agree with you that applying the FAQ's ruling for Snap Shot is a reasonable thing in that situation since IMHO it does sound like the author of both Zen archery and Snap Shot overlooked the RAW issue of drawing ammunition.

Talonhawke wrote:

And the point i was making is that if the free action is a rider to another ability it can happen on an AoO. But only if it is part of an ability that can be used with an AoO.

Whle I do think it is reasonable to run things in that way, I have not seen much in the Paizo core rules to support that notion. This is why Paizo had to address Snap shot in the FAQ.

[Talonhawke]

Remember also that its an FAQ not an Errata which means thats how it always been meant to work. Had it been errated that would mean it had been changed to make it work RAW instead only needing to be clarified on how it works.

so to recap

RAW doesn't seem to support taking any kind of non-speech free action out of turn.

RAI looking at the FAQ it could be assumed to go either way.

RATR* if a free action is either requried to make an ability work out of turn or is a rider of an ability used out of turn it may be used out of turn. This is subject to review on an indivual basis at the end of game.

* Rules As Talonhawke Runs.
Disclaimer: Talonhawke in no way suggest that these rules are RAW and should not be taken as such. Unless Talonhawke is your GM do not assume the game works this way. Ask your own GM before attempting to use any rule listed as RATR.

[Antitheas]

Thanks for your help. Already explained the whole situation. We assumed that there is no free shares outside of the turn. This seems logical (logic in the D & D yeeee ...), it is the action in a split second, so they could at most be only a bite. A stop would be impossible.