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I too have a deep dislike for elves.
The two exceptions to this rule being the Drow (what can I say I like evil elves) and "Wild Elves".
The idea of elves as tribal is awesome to me.
Warpaint, sentient sacrifice, cannibalism, shamanism & druidic societies. (of the old variety, none of this hippy nonsense, the forest gods are angry and must be appeased!)
APPEASE THE FOREST GODS!
Make an elf who every day of conflict tries to capture at least one sentient opponent alive for sacrifice later. Animals don't count, they must pray for mercy for the forest gods to be truly appeased by their blood!
The Ekujae Elves in the Mwangi have totally been known to do this kind of thing, I suspect.
It makes me sad how many times I see "MAKE THEM SAD WANNABE DWARVES" is suggested to 'improve' elves. Really, you don't have to go far to break the mold. And any elf with a modicum of personality can hug all the trees he likes as far as I'm concerned.
Alright, maybe playing an elf that completely lacks the elf flavor is the way to redemption. If someone has any ideas how to do this, I welcome the advice.
You don't seem to be able to quantify what this flavour is very well, but you pretty much have been describing the Forlorn, which are relatively common in Golarion from what I understand. However I've never really understood the fuss. You can remove an elf from elven society without having him being born there and I'm sure folk have been doing it for years... Whats more there can be more to Joe Elf from Kyonin than meets the eye.
I've always thought the treehugger thing was overblown. I've never seen elves played as snobby and caustic because they're elves, but rather just because they're bastards. The magnificent kind. Elves know how to live the good life, but dont forget every Elf nation in Golarion is fighting a war on several fronts. Hedonists. Elves are the ultimate hedonists.
Elves have a lot of time to spend drinking good wine, singing songs and living the good life. They might regret giving up the good life in their homeland, or they might've left their homeland once their kinsmen started expecting more of them. These are your first level elf characters. They've lived a long time, they've had plenty of lovers, regrets, heard plenty of stories, seen plenty of sights, tasted exotic delights and g~@!%%nit they heard that joke a thousand times from here to Lake Encarthan. Plus they can live long enough to sleep with the daughters of anyone that crosses them.
Golarion elves, more than any, seem to have a pretty awesome attitude toward pleasure. Just consider the church of Calistria.
As for building elves, they're really nice and well rounded and you want to build them that way. For the love of god, you don't need that 18 dex. Take some strength and think of your bonus as a cheap 14-16 dex. Your int bonus is great, and it also gives you a free stat you can dump on most characters thanks to your favored class skillpoints. Wield your free longsword in two hands and grab power attack and you'll be surprisingly potent. Same goes for your longbow if you remember to pack Deadly Aim. Even a wizard can fall back on his longsword with a 16 str, and elves make great gishes. The APG made them good at stealth, too, if thats your thing. Also that perception bonus is great.
(Also depending on the setting, scary otherworldly and cannabilistic fey enchanters. Sleep is a REALLY scary spell, especially with other elves around that are immune to it... erp, look at me, ninja'd)
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Maybe to ease past your racism toward elves, dip your toe in the pool with a half-elf. That's how I overcame my own erstwhile elf-antagonism. I enjoyed playing a Diplomacy-focused half-elf cleric, and later moved on to an elf wizard. Some ideas:
- pure-hearted cleric, above notions of snobbery or inter-racial politics (maybe because he wants converts)
- explorer/Pathfinder type of elf wizard who likes to study the curious ways of humans, and like an anthropologist is careful not to condescend directly to the humans' faces
- amnesiac, raised by humans beginning 20 years ago, so the age thing isn't as weird (and maybe actually a sleeper agent originally kidnapped and brainwashed by drow)
- noble leader warrior, like Tanis from Dragonlance... maybe his hometown was saved by humans 100 years ago so the elves from that town today have a special bond with those humans' great-grandchildren, and there is a bond of honor connecting them.
- or just play an elf that you hate, and try to role play a really cool demise.
Good luck and have fun!
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Well, part of my distaste comes from what is expected from elf characters. A large amount of people I have known(and those I play with) expect a snobbish elitist d*ckwad, and treat elf NPCs and PCs as that as a preface to interacting with them. Hell, I find myself doing the same thing. I am here now to change that.
Are there good non-spellcaster, non-ranged combat options for Elves?
Free Hand Fighter Archetype/Duelist works well. Duelist makes the most of dex and intelligence, which is a big plus for elves.
Well, part of my distaste comes from what is expected from elf characters. A large amount of people I have known(and those I play with) expect a snobbish elitist d*ckwad...
As mentioned above, somewhat like paladins are often presented as holier-than-thou d*ckwads. You don't have to follow the stereotype - in fact, stereotypes can and often are completely wrong. I can recall the surprise of the party my elf paladin joined that she was (a) non-judgemental (b) reasonable and polite and (c) death on two legs in hand-to-hand combat.
Edit: Maybe you should play a humble, chaste, thoughtful elf who challenges all their stereotypes?
I once created a setting where dwarves lived in forests, favored classes like druid and ranger, and elves stood a head taller than humans, were barrel chested, natural warriors that favored classes like cavalier and paladin. Was sort of fun to switch the stereotypes.
People are generally a product of their environment, either positively or negatively. For example, a group of people raised in a harsh jungle or desert may grow to be predatory marauders that raid caravans to survive, or they may instead grow a tighter bond between themselves, working together to survive against nature. I'd say think of where your elf would be from and try and make their personality around that. Did they grow up in the woods? Maybe instead of being a tree hugger, they have more of a huntsman/survivalist personality to them. Somewhat gruff but helpful, they understand that Mother Nature giveth and taketh away. If born on a farm, maybe he has more of a farmer's work ethic and honesty. I think that may help a bit.
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Elven weapon proficiencies heavily support elf clerics and other classes with poor weapon selection: my elf cleric of sarenrae can stand back with a longbow, then switch to longsword or scimitar if he needs to go melee. If I want to spend a feat I can even get weapon finesse and switch to a rapier to take advantage of the higher dexterity.
Only elves can pull off a switch-hitter cleric, unless you take a god like Erastil who gives you bow proficiency.
and Blackbloodtroll: don't let bad players who are looking for an excuse to play unpleasant character spoil any race or class for you.
I like exploiting the Elven longevity: an elf with no adjustments for age can be 160 years old, with 80 years of time away from home, that creates a lot of roleplaying opportunities.
- The elf who has spent 80 years in prayer at a remote monastery, following a vow of silence: now the monastery has sent him on a pilgrimage and he must learn to speak again.
- The elf who has spent 140 years as a slave to a cruel family and has just been rescued, he can barely imagine not being a slave and is constantly struggling with the notion of freedom and responsibility.
- The elf who has spent 100 years imprisoned by a demon as a torture pet: paladins slew the demon but the worldwound is not a place for healing and now he is stumbling about with 100 years of torment and suffering inside.
- The elf who has done 60 different jobs and been poor at all of them, struggling with zero self-confidence
- The elf who has visited every continent on the planet and is totally comfortable with every strange cultural behaviour: He's burying fish on the beach so that it can ferment properly and everyone thinks he is weird.
etc.
Well, part of my distaste comes from what is expected from elf characters. A large amount of people I have known(and those I play with) expect a snobbish elitist d*ckwad, and treat elf NPCs and PCs as that as a preface to interacting with them. Hell, I find myself doing the same thing. I am here now to change that.
Uh-huh. That's awesome to here. Trust me when I say that you can get past it, and your table will follow. It's the exact same with gnomes and halflings at my table. I'm the poor sap who considered playing one.
You'd be surprised how quickly it evaporated when someone played a boisterous gnome fighter and defied the stereotype.
Also a big +1 to elf clerics. I knew there was a class that would get more out of that longsword proficiency, but it just wasn't coming to me.
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You should look into the Wood Elves in Games Workshop's Warhammer Fantasy. Basically, they are elves who started living in this haunted, fey forest and went a little crazy - they are xenophobic and half-feral creatures of wild abandon who split their time between contemplating the beauty of nature, having crazy mystical orgies with the dryads, and going on wild hunts which terrorize the humans living in the surrounding countryside.
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Thinking about it, clerics don't have a massive feat spend to be effective, so it isn't crazy for my sarenrae cleric to drop two skill points on perform: dance and go Dervish Dance at level 3, which alongside a masterwork scimitar and masterwork composite bow could put you at
melee +6 (1d6+3/18-20x2)
ranged +6 (1d8+1/x2)
For a 20 point buy.
After reading your issue with playing elves and the attitude that your group places on them I can see why you would want to avoid them. It seems to me they are hanging on to only the most general and crappy version of the fluff. Personally I am not a fan of the free sex, epic promiscuous elves that seem to be being mentioned. I prefer the old school Tolkien elves but that is probably the pastor in me.
I would suggest playing an iconclastic elf. You for whatever reason do not value the conventions, norms and institutions of elf society. You live antithetically to them. You have lived long enough, traveled far enough and witnessed to much to go back to closing yourself and your mindset into the elf mold. You find too much that many of your race value style over substance, tradition over innovation, long deliberation over desisiveness. Take all those things you hate about elven fluff and defy them.
I have never had a problem with Elves, principally because, growing up, I never once thought of them as the people I now realize others do. I was never taught anti-elf racism in early life, so it's never had a place in me.
My first characters were always Elven thieves. They were usually raised in cities, had full black beards (neatly trimmed, we're not Dwarves after all,) lots of personality, and used their long-lives to pick up extra tricks that set them above and beyond the average crowd, (In essence, they were impossible to out-think because they'd had 100+ years to pick up all the experience, witty comebacks and thought puzzles that left lowly humans virtually disarmed when it came to mind-games, puzzle-solving and battles of personality.)
Those are the Elves I played. Those were the only Elves I loved. These weird "Androgynous, aloof" Elves had no place in my imagination for years, because that wasn't the kind of Elf I wanted to play. In a world where so much is under our control, why keep something you don't like?
Maybe that's the answer: Instead of hating on the Elven stereotypes, change them up. Play the Elf you WANT to play rather than the one you think you need to. Because I've got to tell you, nothing tops a roguish heart mixed with an Elf's natural ability. To this day, those early characters are still my favorites and the most fun I've ever had.
And I have a brother who once had lots of success with a very manly Elvish fighter. Not a "Wow, isn't it funny that an Elf is strong" manly fighter, but a "I will kill the bad guy, defeat the army, and steal your woman because I'm faster, smarter, and hotter than you'll ever be" manly fighter.
Epic, epic times.
This reminds me of a RPG cliche, the poor social skills one has in real life draw one to role-playing an antagonistic, slightly narcisstic SOB with no redeaming qualities whatever. Elves are often chosen for the whole, "nobody understands me, I'm better than you"vibe which is frankly overdone and not quite understandable. After all half elves have to come from somewhere right? If elves were as pissed off and aloof as they seem I doubt they'd be chaotic in most settings.
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Elves tend to be at least 114 year old. That's really old.
Imagine being raised amongst humans as an elf. What could a Forlorn elf like you learn from humans by living with them?
You've spent the last 114+ years living as a young person. Everything about you is about physically developing slowly. Your foster parents had to care for you for so much longer than your siblings. It took maybe six or seven years before you became able to walk and talk like a toddler. Your parents had to dot on you more because you needed it. It had to have caused feelings of jealousy from your siblings. They picked on you, beat you up when you were old enough. They couldn't stand you always needing the attention over themselves.
But it gets worse. You are developing so slow. By the time you are a young child, you might be around 25-30. Imagine your parents at this point, old enough to be grandparents but still being forced to care for you after all these years. Their health is deteriorating as ages wears down on them. Now, your siblings see you as a burden to their mother and father and grow to resent you even more. They may yell at you and tell you how much they hate you. Now that you can talk and connect with people your age, you start to realize just how alone you are in this world. The kids you meet will hate you because you look different, what with your large, pointed ears and pupils that cover almost your entire sclera. You'll get picked on and pushed around by most of your peers. A few may become friends with you out of kindness or pity, but eventually they will all grow up and move on without you, while a new generation of bullies is ushered in, already prepared to hate you because you are different. As you get older, out of pity for your dying parents, your siblings would have begun caring for you as you grow towards being a juvenile. Maybe they have children of their own and out of their decades-born bitterness lash out at you and teach their children to hate you.
The worst is when you become a teenager. Already breaking 60-70 years old, you get your first taste of loss as your foster parents have probably died long ago. If you are lucky, your current caretakers may be the children of your siblings, who at this point are young adults. If they haven't abandoned you, they may still hold you in contempt because of what they were taught by their parents (your siblings). What's worse is as a teenager, all of those hormones are now kicking in. You are growing up to be an adult but many of the people around either don't know, don't care, or worse, mock you. Teenagers are more cruel than children and many will go out of their way to humiliate and demean you. You will be beaten up and ostracized from the school you go to. No teacher will stop them either because to them, you are a disgusting, pointy eared freak. A sin against nature to some of the more fanatical adults. But it's not completely lost because like you, there are others who have been singled out as outcasts. Maybe you fall in love with one of them. The rush of feelings will overwhelm you like it does with all people, human or not. To you, your love will last forever against the oppression of the town you live in. Nothing and no one could take this away from you.
And again, nature proves you wrong.
They get older and you stay the same age. You try to make it work, but how can you? Suddenly, your first true love is an adult with children of their own and you've been left behind in your teenage body. You break down, possibly contemplate suicide because no one around you cares enough to counsel your broken heart. Some may just tell you to deal with it because that's life. But how could anyone understand how you feel? How could anyone on this planet know what it's like to out live your parents and lose love because they became too old for you?
This all happens again and again. Your lonely heart craves for companionship as it slowly closes up and becomes cold to everyone. You try to branch out to other jobs, but physically and mentally, you are still young. You may be a failure at anything that isn't hard labor, and even then, with your frail body, you would just barely be able to do it. Meanwhile, you are becoming a living reminder to your family and your exes of their mortality. By the time you are an adult at 114 years of age, your siblings are now dead and their children are now elderly and you are seeing the fourth generation of your family getting married off. Your first love now has grandchildren and you can't even stand the sight of them because it just reminds you that time will take what little you have away. You may have some job experience depending on what class you are, but to yourself, you are a failure. You are sick of your hometown because it reminds you of the pain of living here. Any good memories you may have had has probably died along with the people you spent them with. You can't even stand the sight of the abandoned shops you went to as a child or the old alleyways you made love in at the cover of night. You need to leave this town and you'll do so by any means.
What could a Forlorn elf like you learn from humans by living with them? You learn about loneliness. You learn about jealousy and self loathing. You learn about hatred and closed-mindedness. In your mind are a century's worth of unfettered love and soul crushing loss. Every person you've ever held dear to your heart and every person who has spat in your face is permanently etched into your memory.
At this point, your Forlorn elf is up to you. They can be more on the positive side, with their history of loss and loneliness making them more self-reliant and independent. Or maybe it has made you filled with despair and self hatred. Maybe you have learned to value each and every friend you make as an important comrade that you will hold dear to your heart and protect with every inch of your being. Or maybe your heart has grown cold towards anyone and you keep your compatriots at arms length for fear that when you grow to care for them, you will feel that bite of despair when they leave you or die. Maybe you are optimistic about this new turn in your life, finally leaving behind all of these broken dreams, or maybe the shattered memories of years past are still weighing you down, making you act like a bitter old man that's just tired of this. You may not hate your heritage and elven culture, but you may feel disconnect from it or even wronged by being cursed with longevity.
Hopefully this has helped you in shedding light on how you want your elf to be like. If it were me, I'd probably play a male fighter with a very tired heart that's ready to leave this godforsaken town. If you're looking for that kind of feeling, I'd suggest listening to Hurt by Johnny Cash for a bit. That'll get you in the feeling of someone that has lived a long life filled with regret.
Remember, who really wants to live forever?
I pulled out my trusty PDF of the Inner Sea World Guide. I looked for items on your list that you hate about elves most are absent. The closest was traditions, it points to short devotional practices. One more example of PF not being past editions. In fact it points out that elves over time adapt to the views and outlook of the surrounding region.
I am also on board with a distaste for elves and tend to shy away from Dwarves as well. I think this comes from a LOVE for Half-Orcs who usually are mistreated and hated on by elves and dwarves.
Just an idea, but maybe play an elf that dislikes how elves approach the raids in his area and their laid back non-action taking selves. He is an ambitious guy who doesn't understand why with their allegedly superior selves they wouldn't just intervene an put a stop to things before tons of innocent people suffer and or die. He clashes with the elders and goes out to try to prove that he alone can make a difference. When he arrives to help he is at first greeted with distrust and cruelty for his races stereotypical avoidance of problems not directly of their concern. However, as he mingles with the villagers and expresses his distaste of his races stance on things he earns their trust. He proves to be a valuable asset and is then seen as a hero to the village. The raids come less and less frequently and he feels his job is done here so he takes to the road to find another village in need of his help. As he travels his name becomes more and more well known. He can then have that knowledge that he HAS made a difference. He developes a bad taste in his mouth for elves who take an indifference stance on things when small actions could have great effects.
So you get to RP an elf and use all the reasons you disklike them as part of the character.
Maybe go Blade Bound Kensai Magus to capitalize on the two bonus atributes and be able to play a melee type with some casting abilities. He would be mostly set up to show off his melee prowess and if needed blast the BBEG with a spell to show off his less developed magical talents. He left the elves before he learned as much as he could have to become a full out wizard, but had some talent with spells... and also he wasn't a full trained warrior so he is only really knowledgeable with his favored weapon. Also as a story tie in for the black blade maybe have a village elder who in his younger days felt the same way about the elves stance on things give him the blackblade and say I never had the courage to change the world like you do. Take this and use it for how it was supposed to be used.
If not the ranger with a long bow who picks up an animal companion when he leaves the elves because of the same disagreement with village elders. However, the concept with the story I have in my head made me think of all to many versions of Drizzt. The choice is up to you.
Somehow, the idea of "Daffyd Thomas, the only elf of the village" sounds like a cool character concept to me. Will somebody stop me from alienating the other players?That's not possible.
The whole point of that character is that everyone thinks he is an idiot and is a bit annoyed by him.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: what that boy needs his a good hard **** up his ***!
I'm playing a racist elf. But an unusual kind.
He's not pompous, hateful or even unpleasant to those he consider belong to the "lower races". He's concerned and worried for them and their future.
His prime desire is to research magic, because he believes that what the world needs is perfection, and elves are perfection. He wishes to make everyone else into better people, by turning them into elves and he wants a polymorph spell powerful enough to do this.
This is not done with malicious intent and he wouldn't dream of forcing it upon anyone either, but of course he can't imagine why anyone wouldn't want to be transformed :D