Fire Elemental, Light, Heat, and hats of disguise.

Rules Questions

Hey all.

So I am currently playing a level 6 oracle of fire. (Gnome)

Next level I can take the revelation "Form of Flames"

Form of Flames

Form of Flame (Su): As a standard action, you can assume the form of a Small fire elemental, as elemental body I. At 9th level, you can assume the form of a Medium fire elemental, as elemental body II. At 11th level, you can assume the form of a Large fire elemental, as elemental body III. At 13th level, you can assume the form of a Huge fire elemental, as elemental body IV. You can use this ability once per day, but the duration is 1 hour/level. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.

This is as "Elemental Body"

Elemental Body

When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of a Small air elemental, Small earth elemental, Small fire elemental, or Small water elemental. The abilities you gain depend upon the type of elemental into which you change. Elemental abilities based on size, such as burn, vortex, and whirlwind, use the size of the elemental you transform into to determine their effect.

Air elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small air elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You also gain fly 60 feet (perfect), darkvision 60 feet, and the ability to create a whirlwind.

Earth elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small earth elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain darkvision 60 feet and the ability to earth glide.

Fire elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small fire elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +2 natural armor bonus. You gain darkvision 60 feet, resist fire 20, vulnerability to cold, and the burn ability.

Water elemental: If the form you take is that of a Small water elemental, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Constitution and a +4 natural armor bonus. You also gain swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, the ability to create a vortex, and the ability to breathe water.

Now when we look at Fire Elementals

It does not seem that they shed light.

This seems odd to me but damned if I can find a rule that says they do.

Also it does not seem that they shed any real heat unless they hit you.

Just standing next to one (even sharing the same space does not seem to hurt)

Now lets look at a "hat of disguise"

Hat of Disguise
Aura faint illusion; CL 1st

Slot head; Price 1,800 gp; Weight —

DescriptionThis apparently normal hat allows its wearer to alter her appearance as with a disguise self spell. As part of the disguise, the hat can be changed to appear as a comb, ribbon, headband, cap, coif, hood, helmet, and so on.

Construction RequirementsCraft Wondrous Item, disguise self; Cost 900 gp

Ok it uses "Disguise self"

Disguise Self

School illusion (glamer); Level alchemist 1, antipaladin 1, bard 1, inquisitor 1, sorcerer/wizard 1; Domain trickery 1

CASTINGCasting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S

EFFECTRange personal
Target you
Duration 10 min./level (D)

DESCRIPTION You make yourself - including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment - look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your creature type (although you can appear as another subtype). Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature or look like an entirely different person or gender.

The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form, nor does it alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check. A creature that interacts with the glamer gets a Will save to recognize it as an illusion.

So as Elemental body does not change my type, I am still a gnome that happens to be a fire elemental ATM

Can I wear a hat of disguise to look like a gnome again?

I don't shed any light RAW, so I think this works.

At worst i would have to make the hat out of something that did not burn, but really thats (by RAW) only things that hit me.
And I dont think my hat is going to try to kill me any time soon.

So Does this work?

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In short, yes. It works just fine.

You're definitely into "ask your DM" territory because all of this is dealing with those little corners of the rules where bad things like to hide.

Personally, I'd say anything made out of "living flames" would give off light, nothing in the rules-as-written specifically address the subject.

Also, I'd think they would tend to damage objects they are in constant contact with. Although I believe this was re-written so they couldn't just go around touching people to set them on fire. The rules seem to support that an extraordinary ability such as burn is something that can be controlled.

I'd probably let this work, until it broke something else.

Thanks for the input guys.

You do shed light. Fire sheds light. The developers have stated many times over that they don't want to make rules for things that are obvious and where you can simply rely on normal sense. Fire burns and fire lights up.

The question is, if you can disguise the light with an illusion such as "diguise self". And I think that call is up to your GM.

Ok, how much light?

like a torch? more? how much more?

Common sense works great for some things. however all light in the game has distances.

Torches are 20' then 20' shadowy.

How much does a small elemental give off? how bout a huge?

I agree that common sense says "Yes they do"

However in some cases it would be nice to have it spelled out.

"Fire elementals shed light to a distance twice the size of their space" or something.

By RAW, lava doesn't radiate heat and only deals damage when you come in direct contact with it. Wall of Fire actually creates an opaque wall, limiting sight rather than aiding it. Fire elementals shed light about as much as air elementals do.

Since this is the Rules Forum, RAW is law. GM's throwing out Rule 0 are fine, but any GM can offer any rule change they want, so it really isn't helpful to use those here.

On the OP, to address to address it more fully, your elemental form does not shed light per RAW, so disguising yourself isn't a problem when using disguise self. Even if it did, the illusion magic of the spell would cover it up. If one glammer spell can make you completely invisible, it's not a stretch for another glammer spell to cover up any potential light being shed.

The biggest issue with disguise self is that it doesn't let you change size categories, so you can't use it and be a medium or larger elemental (since gnomes are small). That will seriously limit the potency of your ability if you are wanting to hide it.

Regarding gear "burning up", let's take a look at the burn ability.

A fire elemental deals fire damage in addition to damage dealt on a successful hit in melee. Those affected by the burn ability must also succeed on a Reflex save or catch fire, taking the listed damage for an additional 1d4 rounds at the start of its turn. A burning creature can attempt a new save as a full-round action. Dropping and rolling on the ground grants a +4 bonus on this save. Creatures that hit a burning creature with natural weapons or unarmed attacks take fire damage as though hit by the burning creature and must make a Reflex save to avoid catching on fire.

Burn makes no reference to objects, even stating that the fire damage only applies when someone strikes them with a natural or unarmed attack (excluding manufactured weapons specifically). Burn does not affect objects by RAW, so your hat of disguise would be perfectly safe. As would all of your other gear, especially since that gear just got molded into your body.

Polymorph wrote:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.

The hat of disguise doesn't state if the effect is constant or use-activated, so that one is truly a GM question. At my table (which will differ from your table, ask your GM) it's a constant effect and therefore still works if you get polymorphed into a same-sized creature. If your GM rules that it is use-activated, then it shuts off and cannot be activated until you go back to gnome-form.

TL;DR - It works.

Please note, all emphasis in the above quotes are mine.

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