Help me pimp my witch!


Advice

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

20 point buy, 5th level.

Half-orc witch
Sacred Tattoos option (+1 luck to Saves) instead of Orc Ferocity.

I picture this guy acting like Conan, but only using spells and hexes instead of swords and axes.

Str 12 (2 pts)
Dex 14 (5 pts)
Con 14 (5 pts)
Int 19 (10 pts + 2 racial +1 4th level boost)
Wis 8 (-2 pts)
Cha 10 (0 pts)

Feats:

1. Accursed Hex
3. Extra Curse (cackle)
5. Scribe Scroll

Hexes:

1. Misfortune
2. Evil Eye
3. Cackle
4. Healing

Skills:

Intimidate 5 ranks
Knowledge arcana 5 ranks
Knowledge nature 5 ranks
Knowledge planes 5 ranks
Spellcraft 5 ranks
Use Magic Device 5 ranks

Spells:

1. burning hands, cause fear, command, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, enlarge person, mage armor, ray of enfeeblement, sleep

2. glitterdust, see invisible, summon swarm (vomit swarm???), web

3. dispel magic, stinking cloud

Patron: I have no idea! Elements is good for fireball, Agility is good for haste, shadow for versatility???

Familiar: I have no idea! Rat for Fort saves, Scorpion for initiative, Weasel for Reflex saves???

Traits: I have no idea! Probably the +1 to Will saves. Are there any good magic ones?


See if my handbook can help you out.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

OK.

I'm now leaning towards the Time Patron or Winter Patron.

And Vomit Swarm instead of Summon Swarm. I might even take the Gifted Adept trait so I can get Wasp Swarms a level earlier.

And I'll check out your handbook, StreamOfTheSky. Thanks! :-)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

If you use Cackle on the target of an Evil Eye hex, can you increase the duration of Evil Eye hex even if the target made the save? A successful save reduces the duration to 1 round, and then cackle increases the duration by 1 round per round of Cackling.

Also, StreamOfTheSky, that is an amazing handbook! It has pictures and everything! Color-coding! Very cool!


yes.


  • Lower strength (why would you need above 10 str? hell you could go with 8 if you wanted without any issue really)
  • swap wis and cha (cha is more dumpy)
  • don't take healing hex (it's far from worth it, use a wand of cure light wounds instead) and swap it for flight which kicks in at lvl 5 anyway
  • maxing perception is a requirement
  • take Compsognathus for +4 initiative
  • winter patron is horrible - take time instead if you're choosing between those two
  • you want Ear-Piercing Scream as a 1st lvl spell
  • why glitterdust and see invisibility? drop the latter
  • reactionary trait for +2 initiative


and take the hex slumber (best hex with evil eye imo) and the feat ability focus slumber.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

I personally have a love affair with shadow patron, but only because I really like the element of shadow.

Ill Omen is a great spell, even if you have misfortune already. No save and it works on the next d20 roll. I like to take a couple rounds setting foes up for save-or-suck spells, and I ready ill omen to be cast at just the right time to so the save the foe needs to take is affected by it.

If you haven't started playing yet, I would start with evil eye and swap your first two feats. Evil eye is far more useful then misfortune, and at first level it will allow you have something to do every turn if you end up with no spells to cast. Also, if the target makes the save you can always hit them again with the it.

Ray of enfeeblement, mage armor, and cause fear are not going to be that useful. Ray of enfeeblement has a touch attack and a save, plus you can't take the effect (it is a penalty, not ability damage.) Mage armor won't be needed if your party keeps baddies off of you and you stay away from danger. Cause fear will not have lasting effectiveness and could be picked up from a scroll once you start playing.

I recommend replacing them with ear-piercing scream, bungle, and ill omen.

Make Str 8, Wis 12, and Cha 10.

Liberty's Edge

puksone wrote:
and take the hex slumber and the feat ability focus slumber.

This is perhaps excessive, but Slumber is indeed awesome, and should be strongly considered as a Hex option instead of one of Misfortune and Evil Eye.

Personally, I'd also drop Str to 8 and boost Wis to 12.

Trait-wise, unles you want additional class skills (in which case, feel free to grab 'em), Reactionary and Focused Mind are both potentially good for a spellcaster.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Looks like I got some changes to make! :-)


Lots of good advice since I posted. To answer your question, yes. Even if they save, it still lasts a round, and thus you can keep it going with Cackle. That's why people love evil eye despite the small effect - it basically always works if you can keep it up w/ cackle, no matter if they save or not.

Also note with cackle;
a) It's +1 round duration each use. It is NOT the same as maintaining a spell by concentrating. By that I mean, you could spend 2 move actions on a round where you have nothing more pressing to do and extend effects 2 rounds. And then next round not cackle at all and still have the durations stay alive. Also handy as a safeguard if foes get out of your cackling range enough that you can't both cackle and get back in range.
b) It absolutely does not require sound to be produced to work, nor for the targets to hear it.It simply requires that you cackle as a move action. So it will work in magical silence, and it can be done at a whisper's volume if you wish to not make a lot of noise (particularly important w/ Charm hex, which needs cackle to keep going yet would make it odd in a social setting to be constantly laughing out really loudly).

Dark Archive

I would say no to misfortune as your level 1 hex. Yes it could be gamebreaking, but it will also only last for one round at that level. If you picked up Extra Hex at level 1 and Accursed Hex at level 3 you would at least have room for evil eye or cackle at first level so you have something else to do. A combination of slumber and evil eye would leave you with the possibility of taking out bosses easily.

If you really want to focus on slumber, grab the Two-World Magic trait to get the lullaby spell from the bard spell list. Evil eye, lullaby, slumber, game.


He's obviously starting at 5th level (or he'd probably ask for advice for a 1st level character), so what he can or cannot do at level 1 is irrelevant.

Slumber is boringly powerful though, so I wouldn't recommend it myself.

Dark Archive

Raje wrote:

He's obviously starting at 5th level (or he'd probably ask for advice for a 1st level character), so what he can or cannot do at level 1 is irrelevant.

Slumber is boringly powerful though, so I wouldn't recommend it myself.

Ah, missed that tidbit.

Actually, I'm a big fan of the fortune, scar and cackle hexes used in tandem. With several combats back to back, your witch could just cackle for the entire fight and provide a party-wide buff where everyone gets to roll 2 d20s.


The non-stop Fortune+Cackle thing just rubs me the wrong way, and I don't really have issues with powergaming usually. But if the GM doesn't hit you over the head with a book if you do it, then I guess it's alright.

Dark Archive

I would have an issue with it being used for the entire dungeon, but for just several back-to-back fights it would be amazing. The witch would still have the choice to either cackle and cast, cackle and move, or cackle and cackle to buy herself a full round action the next round.

This would of course have to be guarded from abuse: for example, cackle straight for 10 minutes to buy a 20 minute fortune buff.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I play a buffer in my other campaign, so I don't want to play another buffer in this campaign.

Anyways, here are the changes I made:

20 point buy, 5th level.

Half-orc witch
Sacred Tattoos option (+1 luck to Saves) instead of Orc Ferocity.

I picture this guy acting like Conan, but only using spells and hexes instead of swords and axes.

AC 17 (+2 dex, +1 deflection, +2 armor, +1 natural, +1 enhancement to natural armor) touch 13, ff 15

Hit Points: 35 (5d6 +10 +5 for favored class)

Str 10 (0 pts)
Dex 14 (5 pts)
Con 14 (5 pts)
Int 19 (10 pts + 2 racial +1 4th level boost)
Wis 10 (0 pts)
Cha 10 (0 pts)

Time Patron

Feats:

1. Accursed Hex
3. Extra Curse (cackle)
5. Scribe Scroll

Hexes:

1. Slumber
2. Evil Eye
3. Cackle
4. Healing

Skills:

Intimidate 5 ranks
Knowledge arcana 5 ranks
Knowledge nature 3 ranks
Knowledge planes 2 ranks
Perception 5 ranks (cross-classed)
Spellcraft 5 ranks
Use Magic Device 5 ranks

Spells:

0. detect magic, guidance, message, touch of fatigue.

1. burning hands, bungle, command, comprehend languages, cure light wounds, ear-splitting scream, enlarge person, ill omen, mage armor, ventriloquism (patron spell)

2. glitterdust, silence (patron spell), spectral hand, touch of idocy, vomit swarm, web.

3. dispel magic, stinking cloud.

Patron: Time Patron

Familiar: Turtle for the +1 to natural armor.

Traits: Reactionary for +2 initiative. Unknown what the 2nd one will be.

Equipment:

Bracers of Armor +2
Amulet of Natural Armor +1
Ring of Protection +1
Cloak of Resistance +1
Wand of Cure Light Wounds
750 gp

Considering getting Wand of Ill Omen. NO SAVE!

Who needs more than 1 set of clothing or food or water????


Mergy wrote:
If you really want to focus on slumber, grab the Two-World Magic trait to get the lullaby spell from the bard spell list. Evil eye, lullaby, slumber, game.

Lullaby has a will save to negate. If you're relying on them failing a will save to help with them to later...fail a will save, that's pretty self-defeating. If Slumber were a limited resource or Lullaby were not a standard action, I could understand. But Slumber is not a limited resource, except once/target/day, but you can just take a feat to retry the next round anyway. And Lullaby is a standard. If it were a swift, I could see the action economy use in "feeling out" if a foe had an impossibly high will save or not before devoting your spell/hex action to something. But it expends your round just as much as simply using Slumber would.

Evil Eye is "good" (I'm less enthusiastic about it than others seem to be) because while it gives a save...the save doesn't MATTER. You could care less if they pass, you're just gonna cackle next round and keep it going anyway. In fact, I'd feel really crappy if they failed vs. Evil Eye and then next round saved vs. Slumber, I almost rather they save vs. the evil eye before failing against slumber because it'd be oddly reassuring that I wasn't wasting a turn. :)

Dark Archive

StreamOfTheSky wrote:
Mergy wrote:
If you really want to focus on slumber, grab the Two-World Magic trait to get the lullaby spell from the bard spell list. Evil eye, lullaby, slumber, game.

Lullaby has a will save to negate. If you're relying on them failing a will save to help with them to later...fail a will save, that's pretty self-defeating. If Slumber were a limited resource or Lullaby were not a standard action, I could understand. But Slumber is not a limited resource, except once/target/day, but you can just take a feat to retry the next round anyway. And Lullaby is a standard. If it were a swift, I could see the action economy use in "feeling out" if a foe had an impossibly high will save or not before devoting your spell/hex action to something. But it expends your round just as much as simply using Slumber would.

Evil Eye is "good" (I'm less enthusiastic about it than others seem to be) because while it gives a save...the save doesn't MATTER. You could care less if they pass, you're just gonna cackle next round and keep it going anyway. In fact, I'd feel really crappy if they failed vs. Evil Eye and then next round saved vs. Slumber, I almost rather they save vs. the evil eye before failing against slumber because it'd be oddly reassuring that I wasn't wasting a turn. :)

I disagree with you on lullaby. For one, it can really help when you're trying to hit that big bad with it. Accursed Hex is great, but it is better with a debuff to their save first. If you have time to lullaby them, it's definitely worth using the spell you can afford to flub.

Hmm, I suppose with Quicken Spell you could turn it into a level 3 spell, but you probably wouldn't want to do that.

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Mergy wrote:

I would have an issue with it being used for the entire dungeon, but for just several back-to-back fights it would be amazing. The witch would still have the choice to either cackle and cast, cackle and move, or cackle and cackle to buy herself a full round action the next round.

This would of course have to be guarded from abuse: for example, cackle straight for 10 minutes to buy a 20 minute fortune buff.

If you play a small sized witch and you ride around on a medium sized mount you can cackle with both move actions and use your mounts action to move. Guiding the mount is a non-action, and they move on their own actions, so what is stopping you from riding around cackling madly?

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

2nd level spells:

Touch of idiocy is not as good as it looks. You need to touch them, and it gives a penalty instead of ability damage, this means you can stack the spell on itself. It honestly won't help you at all because of all that. Trade it for something else.

I suggest blindness/deafness and cure moderate wounds. Blindness/deafness is permanent, and way powerful if you place both conditions on the target. You can only do one condition per casting, so go with blindness first. This is a spell I suggest you set up with evil eye, ill omen, and anything else you can do to lower their saves before you cast it.

I agree with the dinosaur familiar, you need to be able to act fist in combat to use your spells and hexes early.

If you are going to do alot of item creation with scribe scroll or other feats, pick up the hedge magician trait. It saves you 5% on the creation cost.

Liberty's Edge

SmiloDan wrote:

I play a buffer in my other campaign, so I don't want to play another buffer in this campaign.

Anyways, here are the changes I made:

Looks good, though your Wisdom is still listed as 8 instead of the 10 it should be at this point.

I'd personally probably go with a cooler, more mobile, Familiar, but I suppose that's a matter of what you want out of it...

And I'd maybe grab one of the Save enhancers for a Trait. Or anything you think is flavorful.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Maybe tag-team a lullabying bard and a slumber hexing witch?

Pathfinder is supposed to be a team endeavor, so I like to find fun multi-character combos.

For example, this witch is going to be part of a new campaign with me, another player, and the GM. Therefore, each player gets two PCs. My other PC is a half-elf paladin with the Bully trait, Skill Focus intimidate, Bludgeoner, Enforcer, and Two-Weapon Fighting feats.

So one of my PCs is going to make opponents shaken, the other is going to give them a -2 to Attacks or Saves from his evil eye, and the other player's PCs (a lore warden fighter reach tripper and a wannabe arcane trickster) will be able to hit hard or cast hard.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

I would get rid of the bracers of armor and get a wand of mage armor (750gp) and a headband if vast intelligence (knowledge local, say) instead. That would use all your money.

Liberty's Edge

moon glum wrote:
I would get rid of the bracers of armor and get a wand of mage armor (750gp) and a headband if vast intelligence (knowledge local, say) instead. That would use all your money.

This is excellent advice.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Deadmanwalking wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

I play a buffer in my other campaign, so I don't want to play another buffer in this campaign.

Anyways, here are the changes I made:

Looks good, though your Wisdom is still listed as 8 instead of the 10 it should be at this point.

I'd personally probably go with a cooler, more mobile, Familiar, but I suppose that's a matter of what you want out of it...

And I'd maybe grab one of the Save enhancers for a Trait. Or anything you think is flavorful.

Thanks for the heads up on the Wisdom score. I had enough time to edit it, fortunately.

I've never used a familiar before. For a witch especially, it seems like a rather fragile valuable. It seems risky to use it to deliver touch attacks.

Am I wrong?

Should I use my familiar as a scout and skirmisher? Or am I better off using it as a belt buckle or pocket watch.


Get the dino for +4 initiative (that's a free Improved Initiative feat mind you) and just use it for scouting and not combat (as combat will probably make it a viable target for any GM). At level 7 get Improved Familiar and a better familiar, perferably something with hands (for wands+UDM) and survivability.

Dark Archive

An imp can use invisibility to get within enemy reach without an AoO. Don't use it constantly to use touch attacks, because it's risky. That doesn't mean, however, that you should forget about it as an option.


moon glum wrote:
I would get rid of the bracers of armor and get a wand of mage armor (750gp) and a headband if vast intelligence (knowledge local, say) instead. That would use all your money.

I would get rid of the wand and just get pearl of power 1st level for 1000 gp to basically get an extra 1st level slot with which to use Mage Armor. More expensive, but will never run out (and the wand will eat a new charge every hour you use it) and will actually have your CL, so it won't fold up like an accordian if someone dispels you. Hell, get a bunch of low level pearls. By level 10, I usually have at least 5 1st level ones and actively choose to not prep the same spell twice at that level, since w/ the pearls I'm practically spontaneously casting and so more "spells known" in the slot means more versatility.

I haven't done gear yet in my handbook, but it's basically the same as wizard, except no blessed book / extra spellbook copies and an even bigger rush to boost Int via headband.


You can wear armor- An armored kilt added to a Haramaki is +2 AC, with 0% arcane spell failure. Enchanting it is heaps cheaper than bracers and frees up that slot.

Liberty's Edge

STR Ranger wrote:
You can wear armor- An armored kilt added to a Haramaki is +2 AC, with 0% arcane spell failure. Enchanting it is heaps cheaper than bracers and frees up that slot.

This will reduce your movement to 20 ft (since it's medium armor), though the same trick without the kilt (and possibly using silk ceremonial armor instead of a haramaki...it weighs a few pounds more, but it's classier) is still light armor.


Yeah, either way. I find 20ft is usually enough movt, if you don't look like a target. But +1 is better than nothing.

Liberty's Edge

STR Ranger wrote:
Yeah, either way. I find 20ft is usually enough movt, if you don't look like a target. But +1 is better than nothing.

It's not just +1 either, it can be enchanted. Hell, with the spare cash he's got he can swing a +2 haramaki (or set of silk armor) and rock a +3 or +4 AC from armor, if he likes.


Just as an aside, can we get a moratorium on "Pimp my X" as the title of threads? It's a horrible metaphor, and doesn't tell us anything about the actual character other than the class. How about "Help me optimize a level 5 half orc witch for blasting and debuffing" for example? Then people are starting to get ideas about the character before they even read the thread.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

My guy is going to have the Sacred Tattoo alternate racial feature, instead of orc ferocity, so I plan on him wearing just a loincloth, his cloak of resistance, and some manly boots or sandals. That way, he can show off his tattoos. That's also why the original version of him had Str 12 and Wis 8.

I considered getting that Craft Tattoo feat, but it totally blows. :-(
It costs 4 times what scrolls cost, and I can't even share them with my friends?
No thank you!

I like that pearl of power idea, Stream of the Sky.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Get a gold grill, and a gold sword cane.


SmiloDan wrote:

My guy is going to have the Sacred Tattoo alternate racial feature, instead of orc ferocity, so I plan on him wearing just a loincloth, his cloak of resistance, and some manly boots or sandals. That way, he can show off his tattoos. That's also why the original version of him had Str 12 and Wis 8.

I considered getting that Craft Tattoo feat, but it totally blows. :-(
It costs 4 times what scrolls cost, and I can't even share them with my friends?
No thank you!

I like that pearl of power idea, Stream of the Sky.

An armored Kilt will have the same visual, but y'know WITH armor!

Shadow Lodge

STR Ranger wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:

My guy is going to have the Sacred Tattoo alternate racial feature, instead of orc ferocity, so I plan on him wearing just a loincloth, his cloak of resistance, and some manly boots or sandals. That way, he can show off his tattoos. That's also why the original version of him had Str 12 and Wis 8.

I considered getting that Craft Tattoo feat, but it totally blows. :-(
It costs 4 times what scrolls cost, and I can't even share them with my friends?
No thank you!

I like that pearl of power idea, Stream of the Sky.

An armored Kilt will have the same visual, but y'know WITH armor!

an armored loincloth?

anyway, instead of the bracers of armor, you could grab 4 pearls of power (1st level). now at 5th level mage armor lasts for 5 hours, if you dedicate 2 of those pearls of power to recast mage armor you have just gotten yourself +4 AC though most of you day (late night ambushes not included) for half the cost of the +2 bracers of armor

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

What does an armored kilt look light? Pretty much a kilt with metal or boiled leather plates on it?

Why doesn't every sorcerer, witch, and wizard wear this?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:

What does an armored kilt look light? Pretty much a kilt with metal or boiled leather plates on it?

Why doesn't every sorcerer, witch, and wizard wear this?

Mostly, people hate the flavor.


Most spellcasters wear a haramaki or armored kilt, usually not both. Although neither has an arcane spell failure or an armor penalty, when you combine them they count as medium armor and therefore slow you down.


But a spellcaster by mid levels is flying and cares far less about that. Granted, the fly spell specifically will get slowed down if in medium armor, but other flight will not and fly 40 is still decent.

That said, casters usually use non-AC defenses like mirror image and blink, making +1 AC less important.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

At least it fits the flavor of my guy.

I just feel sorry for the other people sitting around the table!

;-)


Starting with a 14 dex, getting the dex belt, ring, amulet and the rest nets you an AC of 38 if you combine the Haramaki and kilt and mithral buckler. Pretty decent for a mage... and a good backup for enemies with true seeing.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

AC 38???

I have 10500 gp.

Armored kilt +1 for 1320 gp.
Headband of vast intelligence +2 (Knowledge religion) 4000 gp.
2 Pearls of power (1st level) 1000 gp each. (2000 gp total)
Cloak of resistance +1 for 1000 gp.
Wand of cure light wounds for 750
Wand of ill omen for 750

That leaves me 180 gp for scrolls and incidentals.

That leaves me with an AC of 15, boostable to 17 with mage armor.


Was talking level 20.
10base
+5 Amulet
+5(14Dex+6belt)
+7 (+5 Armored Kilt+ Haramaki)
+6(+5 Mithral buckler)
+5 (ring)


Why don't you buy a mithril lamellar cuirass? Costs 1015 gp, gives AC+2, max. Dex bonus of +6, and 0% arcane spelol failure. Now you can start to enhance it. And still use the armored kilt.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

STR Ranger wrote:

Was talking level 20.

10base
+5 Amulet
+5(14Dex+6belt)
+7 (+5 Armored Kilt+ Haramaki)
+6(+5 Mithral buckler)
+5 (ring)

You forgot the +5 Book of Dex, and probably some kind of ioun stone. And +8 bracers instead of that armor.


Even at level 20 you do not have infinite money. Book of Int +5 is probably worth it; book of dex +5 is not, I would not buy any book other than +int.

Bracers of Armor +8...

He's getting plus SEVEN from his kilted haramaki +5 for like 25150 and change. BoA +8 is 64000 gp, so he's paying nearly 40,000 gp for +1 AC, that doesn't even apply to touch AC!!!!

Man, I wish I was able to play in games with infinite money...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

A crafter PC helps with gear cash.

You don't even infinite money. Just $200,000 per slot, with any leftovers going into slot-less items.


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Even at level 20 you do not have infinite money. Book of Int +5 is probably worth it; book of dex +5 is not, I would not buy any book other than +int.

Bracers of Armor +8...

He's getting plus SEVEN from his kilted haramaki +5 for like 25150 and change. BoA +8 is 64000 gp, so he's paying nearly 40,000 gp for +1 AC, that doesn't even apply to touch AC!!!!

Man, I wish I was able to play in games with infinite money...

This IS the reason I wear the armor. Tons cheaper and available from level 1.

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