The LGBT Gamer Community Thread.


Gamer Life General Discussion

8,001 to 8,050 of 17,727 << first < prev | 156 | 157 | 158 | 159 | 160 | 161 | 162 | 163 | 164 | 165 | 166 | next > last >>
Project Manager

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:
Todd Stewart wrote:


That being said, from my own reading of the literature, I'm largely convinced that both sexuality and internal gender identity are biological in nature and immutable. I haven't seen much empirical evidence pointing to any social influence thereof. What exact biological effects in combination are responsible, in what way, at what point in development... that's still very much up in the air with lots of competing ideas. I look forward to seeing how the field advances as time goes on.

So again, the "immutability" characterization is counter to the experiences of a lot of women (I'm not sure about men, as everything I've read on the subject has focused on women).

It may be involuntarily mutable, but many women experience their orientation as fluid and evolving over the course of their lives. (Hence the lesbian who, later in life, falls in love with a man, or the straight woman who falls in love with her (female) best friend, or the bi woman who ends up attracted to only one gender.)

The response from biologists tends to be "you were bi all the time," but that's patronizing speculation that assumes that the biologist somehow knows who the women in question were attracted to better than the women themselves do.

There remains the possibility that the sexuality of women (or whomever) changes over time, but that the change has a biological cause as opposed to a conscious one.

I never said it wasn't biological, or that it was a choice, or that it was conscious -- I said it was mutable.

Our skin elasticity changes over our lifetimes as well -- doesn't mean we have any control over it, but it's not fixed.


Regarding biology: When you clone a cat that has patterned fur, the clone does have the same colour, BUT NOT THE SAME PATTERN. Identical twins are far from identical, even before environmental effects. Why? Because there are 30000 genes in our genome, and billions of cells. What our genes say is not exactly how we should be composed, but what the underlying fractal pattern should be like. If you take two leaves from an oak tree, you will find them to be very much alike, yes, but you would certainly not have a problem telling them apart. They are expressions of the very same genes. Thus: Random chance. It is a massive factor in how we are designed.

Twin studies generally divide causative factors into inherited, shared environment, and unique environment. What you do is, you collect lots and lots of data about people, twins and otherwise, who have grown up together and apart, and then make analyses to see how much the each type of background correlate to the variability of traits you study. With a slight variation between traits, half is inherited, and half is unique environment. Shared environment affects us (and this is generously) only about 5%. For some traits, such as personality traits, it is 80% of the variability caused by inherited factors.

So... What IS unique environment? Theoretically, it is the stuff you do without your relatives. Practically, it is your own choices, your ideas, AND THE RANDOM CHANCE THAT SHAPED YOU. It could change, certainly, but only in the manner of "we all become new people in seven years due to cell replacement".

So, most likely, we are pretty strongly biologically determined from birth. There is certainly wiggle room, but we are and we remain biological creatures. And, of course, it means science could one day give rise to a "cure for homosexuality". By then, we need to make sure the argument against it is not primarily "it can't be changed". I am with Hume on this: You can't derive an ought from an is. The reason not to use such things is not because we can't, but because it is an absolutely s$**ty thing to do to someone who deserves respect. And, if someone chooses to take such a drug, we should also be prepared to respect their choice, no?


1 person marked this as a favorite.

If they choose to do so, why should we oppose their own choice?


Sissyl- an erudite post.

I have something to contribute from criminology, in which I have an interest.

Criminologists will often say that criminality has both inherited and environmental causes. But about 2/3rd is inherited and 1/3 environmental.
And twin studies support this.

Criminologists have a saying- alcoholism in the parents, criminality in the children. Now lets break alcoholism down, alcoholic parents can lead to-
1 foetal alcohol syndrome
2 a chaotic and dysfunctional home environment
3 and as a predisposition towards becoming an alcoholic can be inherited, as well as behavior learned from parents, alcoholism in the child.

So the reasons alcoholism leads to criminality in children is a complex mix of environment and hereditary, mostly the first I would think.


Fergie wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Speaking from the POV of pure ignorance (important because those of us who are ignorant about this make up the majority of your social environment), it seems like hetero -> bi -> homo is like the frequency of your car radio, but the 'asexual spectrum' is the volume.

Am I totally wrong? If I am, what is it, in relation to hetero to homo spectrum?

OK, that makes sense, but how do I set the clock?

For a moment I thought that this was a reference to the movie "City Slickers"


Joynt Jezebel wrote:

Sissyl- an erudite post.

I have something to contribute from criminology, in which I have an interest.

Criminologists will often say that criminality has both inherited and environmental causes. But about 2/3rd is inherited and 1/3 environmental.
And twin studies support this.

Criminologists have a saying- alcoholism in the parents, criminality in the children. Now lets break alcoholism down, alcoholic parents can lead to-
1 foetal alcohol syndrome
2 a chaotic and dysfunctional home environment
3 and as a predisposition towards becoming an alcoholic can be inherited, as well as behavior learned from parents, alcoholism in the child.

So the reasons alcoholism leads to criminality in children is a complex mix of environment and hereditary, mostly the first I would think.

My roommate has a mentally unstable mom and an alcoholist dad, both having been abusive towards one another.

While my roommate has become prone to drinking daily, he has yet to do anything illegal nor descend to full on alcoholism.

Silver Crusade

Jessica Price wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
Jessica Price wrote:
Todd Stewart wrote:


That being said, from my own reading of the literature, I'm largely convinced that both sexuality and internal gender identity are biological in nature and immutable. I haven't seen much empirical evidence pointing to any social influence thereof. What exact biological effects in combination are responsible, in what way, at what point in development... that's still very much up in the air with lots of competing ideas. I look forward to seeing how the field advances as time goes on.

So again, the "immutability" characterization is counter to the experiences of a lot of women (I'm not sure about men, as everything I've read on the subject has focused on women).

It may be involuntarily mutable, but many women experience their orientation as fluid and evolving over the course of their lives. (Hence the lesbian who, later in life, falls in love with a man, or the straight woman who falls in love with her (female) best friend, or the bi woman who ends up attracted to only one gender.)

The response from biologists tends to be "you were bi all the time," but that's patronizing speculation that assumes that the biologist somehow knows who the women in question were attracted to better than the women themselves do.

There remains the possibility that the sexuality of women (or whomever) changes over time, but that the change has a biological cause as opposed to a conscious one.

I never said it wasn't biological, or that it was a choice, or that it was conscious -- I said it was mutable.

Our skin elasticity changes over our lifetimes as well -- doesn't mean we have any control over it, but it's not fixed.

We remain in agreement. My post was simply building support for a case to show why those biologists should have known better than to say, 'you were bi all the time', when both biology and logic should have led them to conclude that an individual's sexuality can naturally, biologically change over time.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
My post was simply building support for a case to show why those biologists should have known better than to say, 'you were bi all the time', when both biology and logic should have led them to conclude that an individual's sexuality can naturally, biologically change over time.

The problem with this statement is that you are not looking at the evidence. With respect, I do not believe you have comprehensively reviewed it before reaching such a conclusion.

The existing evidence does point strongly to mammal biology *not* being particularly mutable or fluid over time. The evidence picture is far from complete or absolute in terms of the neurobiology of human sexuality, but everything we do have points biologists pretty strongly to the exact opposite conclusion of what you are suggesting.

The immediate expression of biology by the organism in the environment? Absolutely can be mutable and fluid over time. The foundation and potential of it, generally much less so. Except in specific taxa that we are not in.

This is not to disrespect the wide and wonderful range of human sexuality and unique experience, or anyone on any place on the spectrum. Greater understanding of our biology is an asset, not an enemy. Though like everything else, it certainly has the potential to be misused.

Silver Crusade

TanithT wrote:
Malachi Silverclaw wrote:
My post was simply building support for a case to show why those biologists should have known better than to say, 'you were bi all the time', when both biology and logic should have led them to conclude that an individual's sexuality can naturally, biologically change over time.
The problem with this statement is that you are not looking at the evidence. With respect, I do not believe you have comprehensively reviewed it before reaching such a conclusion.

You're right, I was not looking at the evidence, nor did I claim to. That's why I chose my words carefully:-

Quote:
There remains the possibility that the sexuality of women (or whomever) changes over time, but that the change has a biological cause as opposed to a conscious one.

Ah, well! The limits of a text based medium are illustrated yet again. : )


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Icyshadow wrote:

My roommate has a mentally unstable mom and an alcoholist dad, both having been abusive towards one another.

While my roommate has become prone to drinking daily, he has yet to do anything illegal nor descend to full on alcoholism.

I hope he does neither.

I didn't mean to say alcoholism in parents always leads to criminal children, but it certainly pushes up the likelihood.
And the role of alcohol in crime is a bit of a soapbox issue of mine. Alcohol is a factor in half the murders in the US for example. But you hear about illegal drugs and mental illness a lot more.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Mental illness is actually not a very big cause of violence, if you except antisocial personality disorder and substance abuse. Certainly, there are situations when psychotic or confused patients can be violent, but it still doesn't add up to much. Bipolarity means a slightly higher lifetime risk of violence, but again, not much.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Mental illness is a soapbox issue of mine, especially with regards to violence because of the misconception. Since this isn't the place to go fully into that I'll just say I concur with Sissyl.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

If you are mentally ill you are far more likely to be the victim of violence than the perpetrator.


Just as if you are drunk or on drugs.


The three of you are right of course.

I did read a scholarly book on violence and mental illness. The risk is even lower with people under the care of a psychiatrist and taking medication [if its prescribed].

Patients who had multiple mental health diagnosis were more likely to be violent.

Heavy drinking trumped everything else for predicting violence.

Interestingly, according to the published study, alcohol and mental health problems was especially likely to result in violence. Much more so than the sum of the two risks separately. Other sources will almost certainly differ.

What really annoys me is crime TV, of which there is a huge amount. Which puts crime down to absolutely anything but alcoholism. Doubtless because advertisers won't like it.


Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

You're right, I was not looking at the evidence, nor did I claim to. That's why I chose my words carefully:-

Quote:
There remains the possibility that the sexuality of women (or whomever) changes over time, but that the change has a biological cause as opposed to a conscious one.
Ah, well! The limits of a text based medium are illustrated yet again. : )

I am unsure of why you would attempt to build a case for any argument without being willing or able to consider the evidence.

Any feelings and personal experiences you have are absolutely valid and deserve to be heard and respected rather than challenged for evidence. Making arguments about biology does require examining the evidence in order to be remotely sensible or responsible.

Evidence is not evil, nor is it automatically skewed or bigoted. It certainly can be, which is why it's important to read the actual studies to understand their quality and level of peer review.


Joynt Jezebel wrote:
What really annoys me is crime TV, of which there is a huge amount. Which puts crime down to absolutely anything but alcoholism. Doubtless because advertisers won't like it.

What's really sad is it didn't used to be like that. I recall at least one Quincy, M.E. episode that covered that particular issue, as well as several other episodes regarding different facets of alcoholism.


Quincy ME, isn't that kind of ancient?

Most crime TV, perhaps US crime TV especially, has little to do with the reality of what its supposed to be about. And there is so much of it, and it relentlessly focuses on the worst offences. It is bound to affect perceptions in a bad way.

Dark Archive

6 people marked this as a favorite.

Brief update on the Irish front, following a hard fought and well won referendum (woo!), the politicians see just how forward facing Ireland now is! Knowing this, they decided it's time to tackle the rest of the LGBT alliance, this time focusing on T! Coming up in Irish legislation, the removal of the requirement to be single before one can transition, and the introduction of self certification, such as in Denmark, Argentina, and Malta! Huzzah for progress! :)


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I don't have anything to contribute to the recent conversations as a lot of this stuff is out of my ken, but man, you guys cover a lot of ground. There's some smart people here.


Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Quincy ME, isn't that kind of ancient?

Yeah, I suppose it is ^-^". But it just goes to show that they knew about the real problems even way back then, it's just that nobody wants to listen anymore.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
HenshinFanatic wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
Quincy ME, isn't that kind of ancient?
Yeah, I suppose it is ^-^". But it just goes to show that they knew about the real problems even way back then, it's just that nobody wants to listen anymore.

Or that their advertisers were tobacco companies rather than alcohol manufacturers. ^_^

Silver Crusade

7 people marked this as a favorite.

Crystal is getting some press. This article is awesome!

Silver Crusade System Administrator

2 people marked this as a favorite.

That single before transition thing was super upsetting.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

8 people marked this as a favorite.

She's getting a lot of press

Edit: I'll post the buzzfeed link then. ^_^

Silver Crusade

Thank you Lissa. That was the link I meant to post (copy/paste error). I have updated my post.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Albatoonoe wrote:
I don't have anything to contribute to the recent conversations as a lot of this stuff is out of my ken, but man, you guys cover a lot of ground. There's some smart people here.

I follow this thread despite not being LBGT for essentially this reason. Intelligent discussion.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Celestial Healer wrote:
Crystal is getting some press. This article is awesome!

COOOOOOOOOOOOL


1 person marked this as a favorite.

hEYYYY I'm back lol. Sorry I was kinda out and about last year :P. So what I miss?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lissa Guillet wrote:

She's getting a lot of press

Edit: I'll post the buzzfeed link then. ^_^

I just saw the article linked on fb and I gasped with excitement so loud when I saw her face shared by Laverne Cox I scared my cat!! I was coming here link it <3


PIXIE DUST wrote:
hEYYYY I'm back lol. Sorry I was kinda out and about last year :P. So what I miss?

Welcome back=)


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Tirisfal wrote:
Lissa Guillet wrote:

She's getting a lot of press

Edit: I'll post the buzzfeed link then. ^_^

I just saw the article linked on fb and I gasped with excitement so loud when I saw her face shared by Laverne Cox I scared my cat!! I was coming here link it <3

Looks like ABC News/Good Morning America spoke to her too. 8D

But please, don't read the article comments.

I really wish Leelah Alcorn could've seen this.


WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


So anything new happening?


Ok, so one of my friends was finally able to make her transition!

I actually have a question: is it customary to give gifts when this sort of thing happens? I was planning on it, but don't know if it's really a thing or not.

Adventure Card Game Designer

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Celestial Healer wrote:
Crystal is getting some press. This article is awesome!

Well done, Crystal!


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Sir Awesomesauce McSnazzlepants wrote:

Ok, so one of my friends was finally able to make her transition!

I actually have a question: is it customary to give gifts when this sort of thing happens? I was planning on it, but don't know if it's really a thing or not.

I have no idea - but it totally should be.


Kajehase wrote:
Sir Awesomesauce McSnazzlepants wrote:

Ok, so one of my friends was finally able to make her transition!

I actually have a question: is it customary to give gifts when this sort of thing happens? I was planning on it, but don't know if it's really a thing or not.

I have no idea - but it totally should be.

that's a great idea!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Kajehase wrote:
Sir Awesomesauce McSnazzlepants wrote:

Ok, so one of my friends was finally able to make her transition!

I actually have a question: is it customary to give gifts when this sort of thing happens? I was planning on it, but don't know if it's really a thing or not.

I have no idea - but it totally should be.
that's a great idea!

This actually a brilliant idea, maybe treat it as a birthday of sorts

Also big happy fan clap for Crystal Frasier, for her brilliant social media campaign:-)


YAY!!!!!!!!!

Shadow Lodge

13 people marked this as a favorite.

All this publicity about Jenner is interesting. My sister talked to me about it, and we shared our thoughts on all of this talk going around, and the level of support that Jenner is receiving from the general public is amazing.
Back in the day when I went through transition, things weren't so accepting. I moved across country to avoid my own family. My brothers both spoke about tracking me down, and kidnapping me, and beating sense into me. If they had done so, I doubt that many in the Midwest community would have felt sorry for me and would have had empathy for my brothers instead.
When I had come out to one of my brothers (the one I believed was more liberal), he threatened to kill me, stating that the shame of killing a 'brother' would be less than I would be putting my family through.
It took 5 years after my transition before I felt safe enough to visit my family in the midwest. It has been slow, but my own successful transition was what probably made my family become accepting of who I am, without much help from my family.
Finding a partner in life is what helped me get through my transition.
30 years of life after trump 25 years of pain.
I am always proud to see little brothers and sisters achieve their potential, and hope that the path that I and others travelled before have made their lot in life easier.
We are all not there yet, but it is better than it ever was before. I hope for success and peace to Caitlyn, and to all you youngsters.
This is what those of us who marched on Washington in the 80s, and all the street parades throughout the US and the world always hoped for.
My partner and I had our 27th anniversary this year. I hope the same happiness for all of you.


Sir Awesomesauce McSnazzlepants wrote:

Ok, so one of my friends was finally able to make her transition!

I actually have a question: is it customary to give gifts when this sort of thing happens? I was planning on it, but don't know if it's really a thing or not.

That should totally be a thing. I would be so proud and happy for someone who had achieved that milestone in their lives. It takes a lot of courage and effort to get there, and it is definitely something worth acknowledging and recognizing.


Jessica half Orc Pistoliero wrote:

All this publicity about Jenner is interesting. My sister talked to me about it, and we shared our thoughts on all of this talk going around, and the level of support that Jenner is receiving from the general public is amazing.

Back in the day when I went through transition, things weren't so accepting. I moved across country to avoid my own family. My brothers both spoke about tracking me down, and kidnapping me, and beating sense into me. If they had done so, I doubt that many in the Midwest community would have felt sorry for me and would have had empathy for my brothers instead.
When I had come out to one of my brothers (the one I believed was more liberal), he threatened to kill me, stating that the shame of killing a 'brother' would be less than I would be putting my family through.
It took 5 years after my transition before I felt safe enough to visit my family in the midwest. It has been slow, but my own successful transition was what probably made my family become accepting of who I am, without much help from my family.
Finding a partner in life is what helped me get through my transition.
30 years of life after trump 25 years of pain.
I am always proud to see little brothers and sisters achieve their potential, and hope that the path that I and others travelled before have made their lot in life easier.
We are all not there yet, but it is better than it ever was before. I hope for success and peace to Caitlyn, and to all you youngsters.
This is what those of us who marched on Washington in the 80s, and all the street parades throughout the US and the world always hoped for.
My partner and I had our 27th anniversary this year. I hope the same happiness for all of you.

Jessica- Yes the world has changed a lot for the better for LGBT people, at least in the west. You have obviously been through a lot, displayed a lot of strength to survive and I am pleased your life is looking up.

I would like to ask a question. In order to avoid offending anyone, I am a straight person who makes no claim to be an expert and want to ask people in a better position to know.

I have heard differing things about surgery, or transition as you call it. I have heard medical professionals say that surgery is being used increasingly less and that surgery can't turn a man into a woman identical to a person born female [or vice versa]. Is this true or half true?


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Celestial Healer wrote:
Crystal is getting some press. This article is awesome!

On an unrelated observation, Crystal is always so pretty in every picture I've ever seen her in. A lot of people would be envious of being half as photogenic. :)

Sovereign Court

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Ashiel wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
Crystal is getting some press. This article is awesome!
On an unrelated observation, Crystal is always so pretty in every picture I've ever seen her in. A lot of people would be envious of being half as photogenic. :)

It's so true. swoon


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Celestial Healer wrote:
Crystal is getting some press. This article is awesome!
On an unrelated observation, Crystal is always so pretty in every picture I've ever seen her in. A lot of people would be envious of being half as photogenic. :)
It's so true. swoon

Crystal is hot, yes.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

Crystal is very well spoken, thoughtful, and direct. She is a great person.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Terquem wrote:
Crystal is very well spoken, thoughtful, and direct. She is a great person.

She is also awesome.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Joynt Jezebel wrote:
I have heard differing things about surgery, or transition as you call it. I have heard medical professionals say that surgery is being used increasingly less and that surgery can't turn a man into a woman identical to a person born female [or vice versa]. Is this true or half true?

Transition and Surgery are two different things. There is a process. So the general path is therapist for three months->hormones+therapy for 12 months->Transition(where you live your life as your gender) for 12 months->Then, if you can afford it, you get a letter from both your therapist and a clinical psychologist to get your surgery. The important thing is the Transition. It's the thing that lets you live your life pretty genuinely. Most of us have had to save up for surgery for years or give up. It's extremely expensive, especially if you are a trans man and trans men often don't get surgery because it's just not very effective. Male to Female surgery takes a couple of hours and when it's all said and done it's hard to tell the difference between a trans woman and a woman who's had a hysterectomy. There is generally some visible scaring but it's super easy to miss unless you're fully shaved.

If the professional you've been hearing this from is Patrick McHugh or the "swedish study", you can safely ignore those. Dr. McHugh is a huge antitrans bigot and he was head of Johns Hopkins psychiatrics for awhile. He has a very strong antitrans bias that isn't helpful for anyone and is not based on sound science. The swedish study that everyone holds up shows that post op trans women have a near 3x suicide rate of the general population and involves an amount of guesswork. While that's true, a lot of that isn't due to surgery but more how the world treats trans individuals of any sort. In contrast preoperative transgendered people have a 41%-46% suicide attempt rate. That's really excessive.

A lot more surgery is happening these days. Used to be a surgeon had a 6month waiting period or so. I've waited 5 months recently just to START the insurance preapproval and the waiting list after that is over a year. The reason for the uptick is that surgery is now covered on the west coast by insurance.

So surgery is important. It is not the end all, be all but for a lot of trans women, it means a certain amount of freedom and relief and finality.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Crowdfunding campaign for UK organisation who wants to take 40 trans-youths camping.

8,001 to 8,050 of 17,727 << first < prev | 156 | 157 | 158 | 159 | 160 | 161 | 162 | 163 | 164 | 165 | 166 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Gamer Life / General Discussion / The LGBT Gamer Community Thread. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.