The LGBT Gamer Community Thread.


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To clarify: use of the slang "tranny" to refer to someone who is transexual, transitioning, or otherwise, is completely unacceptable on paizo.com, regardless of what other connotation/meaning it may have on other sites/regions.


Limeylongears wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:

I don't think porn's alignment is determined by volume.

Good aligned porn shows consenting adults enjoying sex.

Evil aligned porn is exploitative, cruel or involves children.

Lawful porn conforms to one sexual taste.

Chaotic porn is more eclectic.

The description of Celestial Healer's porn sounds like it would be Lawful Good Gay porn.

STEAMY PALADIN ON PALADIN ACTION.

LAY ON HANDS ONE... MORE... TIME, SIR LANCELOT.

YOU KNOW YOU'VE REACHED SEVENTH HEAVEN WHEN YOU GET TO MOUNT CELESTIA.

will save 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (5) + 5 = 10FAILED

giggles immaturely

Silver Crusade

Ever since 1st ed, I've used the fluff that magical healing can be sexually arousing; pleasurable in the opposite way that getting damage in the first place is the opposite of pleasurable. For most people anyway.

If you are trying to please your partner in bed, then you'll use any trick you know to get the response you're after. LOH, applied...er...judiciously, can go a long way to help.

Am I spending too much time thinking about this?


Arakhor wrote:
Limeylongears wrote:
YOU KNOW YOU'VE REACHED SEVENTH HEAVEN WHEN YOU GET TO MOUNT CELESTIA.
You are terrible, Limey. :p

He wants to face the peril!


Okay, so I have a question. I guess it's sorta directed towards other bisexuals, but if anyone else feels this way, feel free to chime in.

Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be apart of the great LGBTQIA community? I came into my bisexuality pretty late, and I've still had the strong attraction to women (possibly being heteroromantic), so I've always been hesitant to put myself out there among other queer folk. Hell, I was even hesitant to post in this thread.


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Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber
Limeylongears wrote:
Joynt Jezebel wrote:

I don't think porn's alignment is determined by volume.

Good aligned porn shows consenting adults enjoying sex.

Evil aligned porn is exploitative, cruel or involves children.

Lawful porn conforms to one sexual taste.

Chaotic porn is more eclectic.

The description of Celestial Healer's porn sounds like it would be Lawful Good Gay porn.

STEAMY PALADIN ON PALADIN ACTION.

LAY ON HANDS ONE... MORE... TIME, SIR LANCELOT.

YOU KNOW YOU'VE REACHED SEVENTH HEAVEN WHEN YOU GET TO MOUNT CELESTIA.

WITNESS HIM!!!

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Albatoonoe wrote:

Okay, so I have a question. I guess it's sorta directed towards other bisexuals, but if anyone else feels this way, feel free to chime in.

Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be apart of the great LGBTQIA community? I came into my bisexuality pretty late, and I've still had the strong attraction to women (possibly being heteroromantic), so I've always been hesitant to put myself out there among other queer folk. Hell, I was even hesitant to post in this thread.

All the time. It's what kept me from joining the conversation here for so long.


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Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Ever since 1st ed, I've used the fluff that magical healing can be sexually arousing; pleasurable in the opposite way that getting damage in the first place is the opposite of pleasurable. For most people anyway.

If you are trying to please your partner in bed, then you'll use any trick you know to get the response you're after. LOH, applied...er...judiciously, can go a long way to help.

Am I spending too much time thinking about this?

I am sooooo stealing this for my games from now on. :D

kijilinn wrote:
I routinely min/max for Charisma, which amuses my husband (since I often end up with low Wisdom instead). He says it reflects me pretty well: pretty and able to win someone's attention, but with a bad habit of putting my foot in my mouth without having a clue as to why.

That's awesome! I love hearing people's gaming tales. Now imagine if there was a spellcasting class that used negative Wisdom as a casting stat! XD

Grand Lodge

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Albatoonoe wrote:

Okay, so I have a question. I guess it's sorta directed towards other bisexuals, but if anyone else feels this way, feel free to chime in.

Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be apart of the great LGBTQIA community?

Often. I've had "friends" from the community say it to my face. I don't think there are very many people I'm completely comfortable around because of it.


I'm just odd full stop, so I only really fit in amongst people who've known me for years.


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Albatoonoe wrote:

Okay, so I have a question. I guess it's sorta directed towards other bisexuals, but if anyone else feels this way, feel free to chime in.

Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be apart of the great LGBTQIA community? I came into my bisexuality pretty late, and I've still had the strong attraction to women (possibly being heteroromantic), so I've always been hesitant to put myself out there among other queer folk. Hell, I was even hesitant to post in this thread.

Yes, I definitely feel this way. I often find myself self-censoring because of it. And sometimes I get past it and speak up anyways because that's the only way to 1) not be invisible and 2) to not go insane trying to hide who I am. Sometimes it's hard not fitting neatly into one category. But the folks here are really nice and supportive, so that helps.

Contributor

Albatoonoe wrote:

Okay, so I have a question. I guess it's sorta directed towards other bisexuals, but if anyone else feels this way, feel free to chime in.

Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be apart of the great LGBTQIA community?

At times, yes. I'm trans, though I didn't admit it to myself for a very long time (despite in hindsight it being glowingly obvious) but because of a variety of reasons it's unlikely that I'll transition.

As a result, despite feeling dysphoric on a daily basis (waxing and waning in the severity), I sometimes feel like I'm not "trans enough" since to anyone on the street, they just see a random male-bodied person. I'm also not out except to my partner, close friends, and very specific places online and off that don't have any crossover with things in my professional life. So I'm not facing any discrimination that transitioning would almost certainly bring, except for the feelings my brain oftentimes does its best to grind into me like salted lemons on a fresh cut.

It's probably entirely self-afflicted feelings though, because I've never had anyone actually tell me to be quiet, or that I wasn't welcome. Everyone here has, virtually without exception, been amazingly welcoming, accepting, and supporting of my specific route of membership so to speak, and to others in their own particular facet of the LGBTQ* community.


Albatoonoe wrote:
Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be a part of the great LGBTQIA community?

Yes, I think that is something that applies to many bi/pan/ace individuals. There will always be people seeking to divide us from within, where else would the notion of bi privilege and similar drivel come from but such individuals? Hell, if the freaking Federation of Planets from Star Trek: The Next Generation has people like that in their fold even in the 24th century I don't think we'll ever truly get rid of the undesirable human nature to "other" those who are different short of some serious transhumanist advances.


The problem is solvable. For some values of solvable. It includes a very large number of atomic weapons, a nuclear winter, and a very long silence. There COULD be SOME collateral damage, possibly.


At the risk of making the MAD system even more ridiculous, I should add that it would only need a very small number of atomic weapons.


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Well, it's certainly nice to hear from other people about it. Though it sucks that we've all experience such a feeling or worse, have others outright tell us.


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SunshineGrrrl wrote:
Well that is a bad word in our community.

Perhaps in some portions of the community but it's by no means universal. I know several transgendered people (including myself) that neither take offense to it or see it as a bad word. Maybe it's just a matter of preference.

EDIT: Or perhaps it's because we're not part of "your community". I guess that could be a thing.

Shadow Lodge

Freehold DM wrote:
Sissyl wrote:
No... was that like Netflix?
removes Sissyl from Christmas cars list for the crime of making him feel old

Are you old enough to have to have used a private outhouse at a relatives home? In a relatively modern and not in the boondocks area? Hope that helps you feel younger Freehold. :)

Shadow Lodge

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Malachi Silverclaw wrote:

Ever since 1st ed, I've used the fluff that magical healing can be sexually arousing; pleasurable in the opposite way that getting damage in the first place is the opposite of pleasurable. For most people anyway.

If you are trying to please your partner in bed, then you'll use any trick you know to get the response you're after. LOH, applied...er...judiciously, can go a long way to help.

Am I spending too much time thinking about this?

I actually do exactly the opposite. Magical healing is painful. All the pain of healing crammed into a brief moment as a reminder to mortals that the gods gifts are not a shortcut or a right. They have a price.

Though I imagine that spells cast by Calistra's clerics are different. Sometimes. Depending on the caster's preferences.

Shadow Lodge

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Albatoonoe wrote:
Well, it's certainly nice to hear from other people about it. Though it sucks that we've all experience such a feeling or worse, have others outright tell us.

Late to the conversation as always.

Sure; I feel out of place at times with the gay and the straight community. It didn't help that I was in the military for so long so that closet was pretty well closed as far as most people were concerned for a very long time. Even now, I get the stink eye more from gay guys than from straight people. On more than one occasion I've been told to get off the fence and pick a side by the very same people that will scream about how their sexuality isn't a choice to their religious relatives.


I, luckily, have not had to deal with either side spewing hate towards me, but that's probably because I've either been single or with one woman, so most people probably think I'm straight.

Honestly, I'm kinda dreading it. I don't know how I should respond to such things from gays. Dealing with it from straights is easier, I suppose.


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Well, if nothing else this thread is very welcoming.

In addition, the guy who started this thread was a cis(I think) bisexual and had this response to questions of who's welcome on the first page of the thread:

Dogbladewarrior wrote:
Laurefindel wrote:

@ dogbladewarrior

Good luck with that thread (and I say that sincerely, not sarcastically), I'm curious to see if it will lead to anything but arguments that have nothing to do with the OP (even if this kind of discussion isn't necessarily pointless in the end). Posts like mine basically...

I for myself am not quite sure how to react to this thread, and whether or not as a strait individual I should participate or if I would be welcomed as a participant. I would have the same kind of conundrum if this was a thread about a creating a female community, a Black community, a Muslim community or as Shifty puts it, a community for those with blue eyes.

I'm posting this because I never felt excluded from any threads on these boards before, if only to defend a position/opinion/experience that differs from that of the OP. For me, this differs from threads about those who like Josh Whedon as it doesn't relate to an opinion. I simply hope that this doesn't start a series of vip-only type of thread.

Don't get me wrong, the OP was far from being antagonistic, but the inclusiveness of "others" was unclear.

*sigh* I'm probably reading much more into this than I should...

'findel

Anyone who would like to may post, though I would prefer kind hearted intentions rather than antagonistic ones. I didn't mean to make you feel left out. Say what you like, just be nice. Actually if people have questions about how many of us experience life here would be an ok place to ask them. We might manage to promote a bit more understanding then normally exists in our current world.

Seems like everyone is welcome. ^_^

Shadow Lodge

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Just ask them how they chose. When they reply that it wasn't a choice you say, "Exactly." That generally shuts them up.

The hardest part is explaining it to your current partner. It scared me silly to come out to my then girlfriend. Amazingly, she understood (mostly) and we've managed to make it work for 19 years. It kind of freaks most people out when they find out that the Mrs lets me have a kitchen pass to go "play" with the guys. As long as we're honest with each other is seems to work.


That's some good advice. I'll take it to heart.

With dating, I was lucky enough to be with a bisexual woman for a long time, so it was never an issue. I hope I'm so lucky in the future.

Silver Crusade

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Ashiel wrote:
SunshineGrrrl wrote:
Well that is a bad word in our community.

Perhaps in some portions of the community but it's by no means universal. I know several transgendered people (including myself) that neither take offense to it or see it as a bad word. Maybe it's just a matter of preference.

EDIT: Or perhaps it's because we're not part of "your community". I guess that could be a thing.

Most trans people I talk with find it offensive. I Prefer not to offend. There are words we don't use 'cause maybe they have history; maybe one we didn't grow up in or don't understand completely. We don't use those words because they may hurt others and there are plenty of better words we can use that are both more descriptive and less hurtful. There are still people who have heard that yelled at them across the street as people laughs at them or as they are being beaten. We can do better. And its a simple thing to do.

Silver Crusade RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32

Albatoonoe wrote:

Okay, so I have a question. I guess it's sorta directed towards other bisexuals, but if anyone else feels this way, feel free to chime in.

Do you ever feel like you're not "queer enough" to be apart of the great LGBTQIA community? I came into my bisexuality pretty late, and I've still had the strong attraction to women (possibly being heteroromantic), so I've always been hesitant to put myself out there among other queer folk. Hell, I was even hesitant to post in this thread.

As someone who has taken, I dunno, anywhere from five years to my entire life to even figure out what my gender is (or even learn that it was, like, possible and extant and having words for it), I've definitely felt this before.

Like it's one thing to face overt discrimination because of what people know about you, and then another to hide that aspect of yourself/have its existence refuted by both discriminators and discriminated. Erasure sure is a hoot. :/

Just last week I played a PFS scenario where an important NPC has ex-lovers of multiple genders, and the guy next to me was saying something like "Ohhh, I see, so this lady is mad at him because he's actually into dudes," and I didn't really have time to address it because he was more muttering to himself than engaging in conversation, but I wanted to reply, "Uhh, bisexuality????? exists????????"


SunshineGrrrl wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
SunshineGrrrl wrote:
Well that is a bad word in our community.

Perhaps in some portions of the community but it's by no means universal. I know several transgendered people (including myself) that neither take offense to it or see it as a bad word. Maybe it's just a matter of preference.

EDIT: Or perhaps it's because we're not part of "your community". I guess that could be a thing.

Most trans people I talk with find it offensive. I Prefer not to offend. There are words we don't use 'cause maybe they have history; maybe one we didn't grow up in or don't understand completely. We don't use those words because they may hurt others and there are plenty of better words we can use that are both more descriptive and less hurtful. There are still people who have heard that yelled at them across the street as people laughs at them or as they are being beaten. We can do better. And its a simple thing to do.

When I hear about stuff like this, it makes me feel like I'm living on Mars. :|

Which I...guess is a good thing. Sucks for earthlings though. :(

EDIT: As an example, I was talking to one of my transitioning friends about a week ago and asking some questions about how she got set up for her hormonal therapies and such, looking into what it would take if I tried to make that leap in terms of things like money, time, etc. Her boyfriend who was there at the time laughed and asked if I was planning to officially become a tranny. I laughed and was like "well, y'know...I dunno, but I'm thinking". My friend who I was talking to also uses the word pretty positively and/or playfully. For some reason I've stumbled across a number of other transgendered folks in my time running online games and such and pretty much all of them used it playfully or as a sort of shorthand.

One of my friends was more upset by the fact one of our peers insisted on calling her Craig, which was her given name, rather than her assumed name when she was transitioning. That really felt offensive and we were all kinda pissed about it, because he kept openly denying her existence.

I guess it depends on your crowd.

Liberty's Edge Assistant Developer

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Ashiel wrote:
SunshineGrrrl wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
SunshineGrrrl wrote:
Well that is a bad word in our community.

Perhaps in some portions of the community but it's by no means universal. I know several transgendered people (including myself) that neither take offense to it or see it as a bad word. Maybe it's just a matter of preference.

EDIT: Or perhaps it's because we're not part of "your community". I guess that could be a thing.

Most trans people I talk with find it offensive. I Prefer not to offend. There are words we don't use 'cause maybe they have history; maybe one we didn't grow up in or don't understand completely. We don't use those words because they may hurt others and there are plenty of better words we can use that are both more descriptive and less hurtful. There are still people who have heard that yelled at them across the street as people laughs at them or as they are being beaten. We can do better. And its a simple thing to do.

When I hear about stuff like this, it makes me feel like I'm living on Mars. :|

Which I...guess is a good thing. Sucks for earthlings though. :(

EDIT: As an example, I was talking to one of my transitioning friends about a week ago and asking some questions about how she got set up for her hormonal therapies and such, looking into what it would take if I tried to make that leap in terms of things like money, time, etc. Her boyfriend who was there at the time laughed and asked if I was planning to officially become a tranny. I laughed and was like "well, y'know...I dunno, but I'm thinking". My friend who I was talking to also uses the word pretty positively and/or playfully. For some reason I've stumbled across a number of other transgendered folks in my time running online games and such and pretty much all of them used it playfully or as a sort of shorthand.

One of my friends was more upset by the fact one of our peers insisted on calling her X, which was her given name, rather than her assumed name when she was...

Yes, it can depend on context. Sometimes, in a close group of friends who respect the damage some words can you, you can use it playfully. But encouraging people who don't understand its weight or meaning is disrespectful to the people who've been on the receiving end of some truly horrible human behavior.

For a lot of people, slurs aren't just words. They're subtle threats and reminders of "your place." It's used as an appetizer or a side-dish to assault, rape, murder, denial of services, rejection from job, rejection from family, and a host of horrible treatments. Just because you haven't personally experienced that doesn't mean "it's different for different groups," it means you have less experience with a subject and should try to respect the insight of people with more experience.

You have a different standard of behavior with close friends than you do in public. Your friends have probably seen you in your underwear. You've probably called your friends a@@%~+*s. But if you walk around in your underwear in the park calling people a*@$!~*s, that's different.

EDIT: Also, deadnaming your friends is SERIOUSLY rude and cruel, and you might want to edit your own post

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

As always, Miss Frasier says it far better than I ever could have. <3


Crystal Frasier wrote:
EDIT: Also, deadnaming your friends is SERIOUSLY rude and cruel, and you might want to edit your own post

Deadnaming?

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

Deadnaming refers to use of a trans person's given/birth name - their "dead" name - which frequently does not match the gender they identify as.

It's considered highly inappropriate by most trans people, since it a) is frequently a denial of their identity, as in your post; b) can be a reminder of bad times and periods in their life; and c) can out someone as trans, leading to a lot of the very bad things that can happen to trans folk.

I'm sure one of the others can explain it better, and I've probably missed something. Still, I hope this helped. ^_^


Ashiel wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
EDIT: Also, deadnaming your friends is SERIOUSLY rude and cruel, and you might want to edit your own post
Deadnaming?

Using the given birth name of someone that's changed their name.


Ah, well it was a problem because of how it was being used. Not because it was. I looked up to her a lot (older than me, nice role model).


Crystal Frasier wrote:
Ashiel wrote:


One of my friends was more upset by the fact one of our peers insisted on calling her X, which was her given name, rather than her assumed name when she was transitioning. That really felt offensive and we were all kinda pissed about it, because he kept openly denying her existence.
EDIT: Also, deadnaming your friends is SERIOUSLY rude and cruel, and you might want to edit your own post

I get that actually using the deadname to refer to someone is rude, but is it really offensive in the context Ashiel used it? Talking about someone else deadnaming her friend?

Liberty's Edge Assistant Developer

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It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

2) It's rude to bring up a name forced on a person and associated with a bad period in their life, like if you were sharing the childhood nickname bullies used to use to taunt them.

3) Even if you're not trying to hurt them with their deadname, you've just put a tool in everyone's hands around you to hurt your friend should the whim strike them.

4) A lot of trans women try to hide elements of their past, to protect themselves from old harassment or violence, or even just to get or keep a job. Sharing deadnames makes it easier to track old information they'd rather leave buried.

4) You can absolutely talk about someone else deadnaming your friend without mentioning their deadname yourself.

Mentioning her old name was absolutely irrelevant to the story, and your story was specifically that she was upset with someone using it.

A lot of the pain of these things we're talking about isn't immediately obvious, and doesn't become obvious until you've begun your transition and seen the world try to tear you down on a constant basis. Being respectful in your language, especially towards a minority group, isn't about "If you say X word, trans people will have nervous breakdowns," it's about helping create a world that isn't constantly and subtly aggressive, that doesn't wear people down. It's about showing a disrespected group a modicum of respect in a very hostile world.

Not to mention, invoking a trans woman's deadname grants you the power to summon her. But not to bind her. It's just safer for everyone involved.


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Todd Stewart wrote:
I sometimes feel like I'm not "trans enough" since to anyone on the street, they just see a random male-bodied person.

As usual, we're in basically the same boat. We both have social and professional passing privileges as cisgendered, and heterosexual couple privileges. I am uncomfortable with that privilege as it does not reflect the truth. And because privileging some people over others in society is utterly horrific, even if you are (at least apparently) in a group that gets more of the privilege.

Quote:
I'm also not out except to my partner, close friends, and very specific places online and off that don't have any crossover with things in my professional life. So I'm not facing any discrimination that transitioning would almost certainly bring

While I entirely respect and will support whatever degree of out you do or do not wish to be, I think you severely underestimate the information storing capacity of the Internet. You are not in the closet after posting to a public forum. Potential employers absolutely can find this thread and everything you've said in it if they care enough to dig.

Would they? Quite possibly, in a field that required security clearance. Would it be an issue? Hard to say. I could see an employer thinking harder about adding a non transitioned trans* person to the health insurance roster, if for nothing else the future costs of their possible transition.

I have no interest in advising anyone to stay in the closet, because closets suck and are toxic and should have no legitimate reason to even exist. I also won't advise anyone to come out of the closet if they aren't prepared to face the consequences and pay the price of doing so. Because this society sucks and is toxic and there can be consequences. I will however advocate a fully informed decision.

As to being discriminated against in the LGBT community, don't even get me started. There is a LOT of hate in the gay and lesbian communities for transmen and transwomen, and it's just as ugly and toxic as anything the mainstream throws at us. If not more so, because it's coming from people who are supposed to be your tribe, your allies. Bisexuality also gets a lot of hate, but I don't even have that much on my membership card.

Being a non transitioning trans* genderqueer with cis/het passing privilege does not lay out any welcome mats in the LGBT community. I will never be accepted by gay men as one of them without fully transitioning, and even then it would be highly dubious and I would face a lot of discrimination and distaste. I get along well with lesbians until I explain that I am not attracted to female bodied/female identified people. Then it generally goes downhill.

Nahh. I'm not going to invade either of their spaces. They don't want or need me there. I look like an oppressor, and unlike them I get to enjoy all the benefits they don't because of a social structure of oppression. The only thing that makes me trans* or queer is invisible, which means that I am - like it or not - firmly on the cis/het side of the social privilege division. And that is a very deep division.

There's Haves and Have-Nots, and the chasm between us of social turbulence created by the gross unfairness of social privilege is much too wide and deep for me to reach across for support.


TanithT wrote:
While I entirely respect and will support whatever degree of out you do or do not wish to be, I think you severely underestimate the information storing capacity of the Internet. You are not in the closet after posting to a public forum. Potential employers absolutely can find this thread and everything you've said in it if they care enough to dig.

I think this is perfectly true.

Not only that, there are some people who seem to get off on being pointlessly nasty over the net. Its easier to mistreat someone you don't have to see and relate to.


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Crystal Frasier wrote:

It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

Is there a place I can find the statistics on this sort of thing?

Quote:
2) It's rude to bring up a name forced on a person and associated with a bad period in their life, like if you were sharing the childhood nickname bullies used to use to taunt them.

I think that makes a few assumptions that I'm not entirely sure I'm in agreement with, but thank you.

Quote:
3) Even if you're not trying to hurt them with their deadname, you've just put a tool in everyone's hands around you to hurt your friend should the whim strike them.

I imagine the statistical probability of that happening to be essentially nil. A generic name used in a generic description with no other discerning features. If we were the X-Men, sure. However, I don't think there's a sort of "Transgender Control Agency" that's capable of taking a defunct non-surname with a complete lack of other information and deduce not only the whereabouts but the person who no longer uses the name, and do so to go find them and call them by their birth name.

If we were physically present in mixed company, sure, but that much is obvious. I mean, it was pretty obvious to us years ago when our group got collectively pissed at another member of our group for his insistence on being an ass. How she handled it was very mature and I consider it to be a sort of defining moment in my knowing her and why she ended up being someone I looked to as a role model.

Quote:
4) A lot of trans women try to hide elements of their past, to protect themselves from old harassment or violence, or even just to get or keep a job. Sharing deadnames makes it easier to track old information they'd rather leave buried.

Again, given the context, I don't think Sentinels are dropping yet.

Quote:
4) You can absolutely talk about someone else deadnaming your friend without mentioning their deadname yourself.

You can. In this case, based on what she has told me in the past, there was no need and it makes the situation all the more real. "He kept calling her X" is fairly "other". It doesn't express the level of mundane-ness that was being levied against her as a form of chastisement, which of course was the entire point.

It wasn't about knowing some sort of mysterious name that had power over her, it was about him being a dick. She told me herself the name wasn't the problem it was the way he used it (among other things) as part of a package deal of not acknowledging her.

Quote:
Mentioning her old name was absolutely irrelevant to the story, and your story was specifically that she was upset with someone using it.

It was quite relevant for the reasons mentioned. Because of how mundane it is. Because of how day to day life it is. Honestly I think it's the day to day life stuff that matters. It's all well and good for us to join hands and have a big group hug and shout at the sky but the only thing that matters is how we can live out there.

Quote:
A lot of the pain of these things we're talking about isn't immediately obvious, and doesn't become obvious until you've begun your transition and seen the world try to tear you down on a constant basis. Being respectful in your language, especially towards a minority group, isn't about "If you say X word, trans people will have nervous breakdowns," it's about helping create a world that isn't constantly and subtly aggressive, that doesn't wear people down. It's about showing a disrespected group a modicum of respect in a very hostile world.

We can agree to disagree then. Not that I don't think you're very knowledgeable or anything, it just conflicts strongly with what I actually believe and what she herself inspired in me.

Quote:
Not to mention, invoking a trans woman's deadname grants you the power to summon her. But not to bind her. It's just safer for everyone involved.

Am I the only person who skips the magic circle when calling friends? :P


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TanithT wrote:

As to being discriminated against in the LGBT community, don't even get me started. There is a LOT of hate in the gay and lesbian communities for transmen and transwomen, and it's just as ugly and toxic as anything the mainstream throws at us. If not more so, because it's coming from people who are supposed to be your tribe, your allies. Bisexuality also gets a lot of hate, but I don't even have that much on my membership card.

Being a non transitioning trans* genderqueer with cis/het passing privilege does not lay out any welcome mats in the LGBT community. I will never be accepted by gay men as one of them without fully transitioning, and even then it would be highly dubious and I would face a lot of discrimination and distaste. I get along well with lesbians until I explain that I am not attracted to female bodied/female identified people. Then it generally goes downhill.

Yeah seriously. This is why I don't associate with these "communities". Literally every instance of "us" and "they" I've ever seen has turned sour. In the first moment I was beginning to feel a little kinship on these boards, I watched it turn sour on someone else and then I regretted fully even talking about anything, apologized to the other people and went back to being disassociated. I realized that similarities are just that and nothing more.


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Ashiel wrote:
Am I the only person who skips the magic circle when calling friends? :P

Nope. My friends are not even on alignment chart so there is no suitable magic circle.

I usually go with force cage or trap the soul.


Drejk wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Am I the only person who skips the magic circle when calling friends? :P

Nope. My friends are not even on alignment chart so there is no suitable magic circle.

I usually go with force cage or trap the soul.

Wow, y'know, you just gave me a really sick idea for a campaign sometime involving an engagement ring and a trap the soul spell.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Not to mention, invoking a trans woman's deadname grants you the power to summon her. But not to bind her. It's just safer for everyone involved.

That line made laugh unexpectedly while sipping coffee... and blow coffee out of my nose.

Liberty's Edge Assistant Developer

Ashiel wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:

It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

Is there a place I can find the statistics on this sort of thing?

It was a giant mistake for me to come back into this thread


Haladir wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Not to mention, invoking a trans woman's deadname grants you the power to summon her. But not to bind her. It's just safer for everyone involved.
That line made laugh unexpectedly while sipping coffee... and blow coffee out of my nose.

Goes off to library to pore over old tomes looking for the Bind spell, hoping not to go insane when casting the Summon.


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Crystal Frasier wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:

It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

Is there a place I can find the statistics on this sort of thing?
It was a giant mistake for me to come back into this thread

I don't think it was you making the mistake.

But thank you. It clarified some things I hadn't thought through.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:

It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

Is there a place I can find the statistics on this sort of thing?
It was a giant mistake for me to come back into this thread

I wasn't being facetious when I asked. Your response mirrors my own feelings on these things most of the time, which is why I don't typically actually talk about this stuff except with my friends and people in person.

It's clear that we have had differing experiences ourselves and differing feedback from other transgendered people. So I was legitimately hoping that you might know of a place where I could find some data that isn't anecdotal. Because I'm interested. Unfortunately trying to find legitimate data on these subjects is incredibly difficult because of how saturated search engines are with inane tumblr blogs and misinformation.

But don't worry about it, I'll save you the trouble and go back to lurking.


*feels sad now*


Crystal Frasier wrote:

Not to mention, invoking a trans woman's deadname grants you the power to summon her. But not to bind her. It's just safer for everyone involved.

O_o

I'll be sleeping with the lights on tonight...


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Crystal Frasier wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:

It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

Is there a place I can find the statistics on this sort of thing?
It was a giant mistake for me to come back into this thread

please don't go.


Crystal Frasier wrote:

It varies from person to person, but:

1) Most trans people don't want their old name shared, especially without their permissions. To most people, especially women who've transitioned and live fulltime, it is a vulnerability, like sharing their medical information or allergies without their permission.

2) It's rude to bring up a name forced on a person and associated with a bad period in their life, like if you were sharing the childhood nickname bullies used to use to taunt them.

3) Even if you're not trying to hurt them with their deadname, you've just put a tool in everyone's hands around you to hurt your friend should the whim strike them.

4) A lot of trans women try to hide elements of their past, to protect themselves from old harassment or violence, or even just to get or keep a job. Sharing deadnames makes it easier to track old information they'd rather leave buried.

4) You can absolutely talk about someone else deadnaming your friend without mentioning their deadname yourself.

Mentioning her old name was absolutely irrelevant to the story, and your story was specifically that she was upset with someone using it.

A lot of the pain of these things we're talking about isn't immediately obvious, and doesn't become obvious until you've begun your transition and seen the world try to tear you down on a constant basis. Being respectful in your language, especially towards a minority group, isn't about "If you say X word, trans people will have nervous breakdowns," it's about helping create a world that isn't constantly and subtly aggressive, that doesn't wear people down. It's about showing a disrespected group a modicum of respect in a very hostile world.

Not to mention, invoking a trans woman's deadname grants you the power to summon her. But not to bind her. It's just safer for everyone involved.

You just peeked my anxiety a bit. A friend of mine transitioned about 10 years ago. And I knew her long before she transitioned, and would often say her dead name (by accident while not thinking) shortly after she had chosen her new name. I feel really bad now. I know it wasn't intentional and she seemed quite fine and understood. But still.......

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