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Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Actually, I kind of long for idealised LGBTQ+ characters being allowed to be heroic and larger than life, because I've seen a lot of "edgy flawed characters" lately and all it really does is make the character hard to relate to (which exacerbates the Othering problem) while simultaneously providing the cishet audience with a vehicle to explore the "seedy adventures of the LGBTQ+ character that cheats, manipulates, does drugs, is promiscuous, gets involved in crime and does all the sort of things that suburban cishet white people are typically far removed from."

It's one of the main reasons I haven't been able to keep watching the show How To Get Away With Murder, even though it was basically everything I've ever wanted to see in a TV show.

One day I might write an article or a thesis about it, but basically there's this "sanctity" of certain roles and tropes that marginalised groups are not allowed to be, which are reserved for the straight cis white male hero, and is basically the big reason why there are so few LGBTQ+ fictional role models.

This was my biggest issue with "Looking", really. (That and the horrid pacing).

The only characters I felt like rooting for in their quest to show (and I use quotes heavily) "normal" gay men were secondary/side plot ones. I really don't need any more shows where queer is code for edgy/seedy/etc. Worse, one where none of those characters get called out consistently for s@**ty behavior. Whole, complex characters do have flaws. But damn, give me something about them to root for.


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Yuugasa wrote:

I thought it was pretty cool actually that Kanye West was the one to convince Kim Kardashian to accept Bruce as transgender. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised though, for all his ludicrous antics he has always been very honest and has expressed feelings of loneliness and isolation before.

Maybe there actually is a pretty deep person buried under all that nonsense and narcissistic ramblings=)

Try to remember that underneath every Narcissist there lies a real person

I know, believe me I know.

Silver Crusade

bdk86 wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Actually, I kind of long for idealised LGBTQ+ characters being allowed to be heroic and larger than life, because I've seen a lot of "edgy flawed characters" lately and all it really does is make the character hard to relate to (which exacerbates the Othering problem) while simultaneously providing the cishet audience with a vehicle to explore the "seedy adventures of the LGBTQ+ character that cheats, manipulates, does drugs, is promiscuous, gets involved in crime and does all the sort of things that suburban cishet white people are typically far removed from."

It's one of the main reasons I haven't been able to keep watching the show How To Get Away With Murder, even though it was basically everything I've ever wanted to see in a TV show.

One day I might write an article or a thesis about it, but basically there's this "sanctity" of certain roles and tropes that marginalised groups are not allowed to be, which are reserved for the straight cis white male hero, and is basically the big reason why there are so few LGBTQ+ fictional role models.

This was my biggest issue with "Looking", really. (That and the horrid pacing).

The only characters I felt like rooting for in their quest to show (and I use quotes heavily) "normal" gay men were secondary/side plot ones. I really don't need any more shows where queer is code for edgy/seedy/etc. Worse, one where none of those characters get called out consistently for s@#$ty behavior. Whole, complex characters do have flaws. But damn, give me something about them to root for.

I think we were supposed to root for Patrick, but he kept making terrible decisions and treating people like garbage.


I had to stop watching the show. the characters were truly awful people, walking larva lawyer stereotypes.


Terquem wrote:
Yuugasa wrote:

I thought it was pretty cool actually that Kanye West was the one to convince Kim Kardashian to accept Bruce as transgender. Maybe I shouldn't be surprised though, for all his ludicrous antics he has always been very honest and has expressed feelings of loneliness and isolation before.

Maybe there actually is a pretty deep person buried under all that nonsense and narcissistic ramblings=)

Try to remember that underneath every Narcissist there lies a real person

I know, believe me I know.

No offense meant, my father has been diagnosed with genuine NPD(don't think Kanye has it, though I don't know), so I am well aware there is a real person who suffers under some of their more unpleasant attitudes.

Sorry if I seemed critical.

Dark Archive

Celestial Healer wrote:


I think we were supposed to root for Patrick, but he kept making terrible decisions and treating people like garbage.

Pretty much. I keep trying to figure out if this was either intentional (we know that media whose characters do the full 180 into a better person arc don't challenge their audience to self examine) and just poorly executed or if, in fact, the writers really think Patrick likeable as is.

Granted, the series did not reach the conclusion the writers had planned (they assumed they were getting a third season, shockingly) so it may just be a matter of a slow burn arc that never saw its intended end.

Oh well, c'est la TV.


NPD is a type of behaviour caused by a completely abysmally low self esteem. The status seeking is what they replace things with, as is the insistence on being special and worthy of special treatment. They have little sense of the feelings of others, perhaps due to being too busy with their own emotions. And the narcissistic rage after being criticized in any way needs to be understood through the glasses that the smallest piece of criticism questions their entire reason for existing, much like others would react after being harassed for hours.

What is truly frightening is that the DSM 5 manual considered not putting it in because IT IS SO COMMON IN AMERICA THAT IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED NORMAL...


Sissyl wrote:

NPD is a type of behaviour caused by a completely abysmally low self esteem. The status seeking is what they replace things with, as is the insistence on being special and worthy of special treatment. They have little sense of the feelings of others, perhaps due to being too busy with their own emotions. And the narcissistic rage after being criticized in any way needs to be understood through the glasses that the smallest piece of criticism questions their entire reason for existing, much like others would react after being harassed for hours.

What is truly frightening is that the DSM 5 manual considered not putting it in because IT IS SO COMMON IN AMERICA THAT IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED NORMAL...

axis 2 is a land of such mystery and potential horror that one can never step lightly enough.


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The Minis Maniac wrote:
Ugh, why o why do I keep subjecting myself to reading any comments on LGBT news on any news network. It's always full of hateful remarks that get me down.

I know I'm a bit twisted*, but I go to right-wing news sites precisely for those comments. It's my hate-porn.

Those people may be small-minded bigots, but they see the writing on the wall, and know that institutionalized homophobia is winding down. Just imagine the explosion that's coming in June if the Supreme Court rules as they should. All that impotent rage, the gnashing teeth, the spite... it will be an all-you-can-eat schadenfreude feast.

*On the topic of DSM-5, the proper term is Machiavellian, though that isn't an actual diagnosis. Fortunately I don't have any of the other dark triad/tetrad traits.


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Sissyl wrote:

NPD is a type of behaviour caused by a completely abysmally low self esteem. The status seeking is what they replace things with, as is the insistence on being special and worthy of special treatment. They have little sense of the feelings of others, perhaps due to being too busy with their own emotions. And the narcissistic rage after being criticized in any way needs to be understood through the glasses that the smallest piece of criticism questions their entire reason for existing, much like others would react after being harassed for hours.

What is truly frightening is that the DSM 5 manual considered not putting it in because IT IS SO COMMON IN AMERICA THAT IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED NORMAL...

If these forums are any indication... >_>


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Well, this is the last place I expected something like this to happen

Utah High School Crowns Transgender Prom Queen

It sounds like it might have been a school that is slightly different as the school was listed as Salt Lake School for Performing Arts, which sounds a little atypical for a High School.


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So... not big news, but...

I just saw (and read in two hours) a realistic fiction book in my public school's library about a transgirl and her experiences trying to understand itself-Gracefully Grayson is the title.

It was quite clearly for young adults, and hopefully will get lots of reads at my school as it is on the "books of the month" shelf in our library (and maybe it'll help next year, if all things go to plan and I start transitioning). However, it was also a big victory because my school's library is extremely conservative. Absolutely no LGBT stuff allowed-which is funny, because a) there are books in there that intricately describe sex scenes and b) most of our teachers are very liberal and freely talk about LGBT topics with us. As a matter of fact, My English teacher's library is chock full of LGBT topics and banned books, but I digress.

Anyways, this was somewhat a personal victory for me (although it may have just slipped under their radar because it didn't mention the word "transgender" at all, even though that was quite clearly what was happening) and I hope the library expands to include other stuff, as I am a massive reader.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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That's still pretty helpful. I wish I had more healthy media to hold on to when I was in high school. ^_^


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Yeah. I'm really, really glad that I was not born a decade before I was. That makes sense. I think. *Scratches head.*

Anyways, musings upon realization follow:

Musings:

To begin, I ought to explain something. I have this really weird allergy to wheat. Not in the "I get deathly sick if I touch the stuff" sense. No. It's more like: "all of my behavioral functions shut off for a day or so whenever I consume it in large quantities." If any of you have read the Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss (great series, by the way) it is comparable to the effect of plum bob upon Kvothe: I think that nothing is a bad idea, it gives me a massive adrenaline and releases some amount of testosterone, and my emotions tend to run a little high whenever I consume it.

I spent most of my formative years (about 1-10) under a "wheat fugue" before my teachers finally realized what was going on when I vandalized a car out of boredom immediately after lunch. Thankfully, they put two and two together, and I got on a gluten-free diet from then on. Studies concerning my particular disorder say that it would take about a year for gluten to completely work itself out of my system. And lo and behold, a year later when I finally came off my wheat high, I started becoming more withdrawn, not really willing to go out and play football or whatever. My good friend, Maharu, once convinced me to go and play for a little while. I didn't like it at all.

Then I hit puberty, and BOOM! Instead of becoming more masculine like my parents expected, I became even more feminine. I started hanging out and empathizing with girls far more, and even though I never cross-dressed (although that is becoming more and more appealing as time rolls on by) I started wearing more androgynous clothes.

Finally, I noticed what I was doing too, and I looked it up-and immediately realized that I was transgender. It was... strange. Liberating, but strange. Now, I had to make an active effort to pair up with boys, act like a boy, etc... When I realized to hell with all of that, my parents won't notice a thing. I've been acting like this for a long time now, changing suddenly would be more noticeable than just continuing on.

Anyways, long story short, my mother somehow picked up on all of that, and now here I am, wondering how I'm going to come out to my Dad.

Spoilered for length and a wodge of teen angst :P

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Spoiler:
It's certainly not an easy path. Life takes us down the road though whether we're willing or not sooner or later. Hint: better sooner than later in my experience. less regret.

Dark Archive

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The Doomkitten wrote:

So... not big news, but...

I just saw (and read in two hours) a realistic fiction book in my public school's library about a transgirl and her experiences trying to understand itself-Gracefully Grayson is the title.

It was quite clearly for young adults, and hopefully will get lots of reads at my school as it is on the "books of the month" shelf in our library (and maybe it'll help next year, if all things go to plan and I start transitioning). However, it was also a big victory because my school's library is extremely conservative. Absolutely no LGBT stuff allowed-which is funny, because a) there are books in there that intricately describe sex scenes and b) most of our teachers are very liberal and freely talk about LGBT topics with us. As a matter of fact, My English teacher's library is chock full of LGBT topics and banned books, but I digress.

Anyways, this was somewhat a personal victory for me (although it may have just slipped under their radar because it didn't mention the word "transgender" at all, even though that was quite clearly what was happening) and I hope the library expands to include other stuff, as I am a massive reader.

Thank you for the book recommendation!

I'm the volunteer librarian for a local queer youth organization and I run a Queer Book Club over the summer. This sounds like a great candidate! Finding good YA that is queer, accurate, and resonates with the population(s) it discusses can be hard sometimes.


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Whee, okay, sorry, I had not previously seen this thread and now I'm excited specifically due to the harsh views of trans people I've seen on other threads.

This is great and exciting. I find it incredibly difficult to find media that portrays queer people in a positive light, especially anything that isn't gritty, nihilistic dramas. And gaming has been the absolute worst community for me to find anything positive. Due to the omnipresence of misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in previous gaming communities, I've started playing almost exclusively Pathfinder and almost entirely with other queer players.

And I am interested in this Gracefully Grayson.

Narcissism:
And, ah, on the slight tangent of narcissism, I've been a psychology student for the past four years and I've always been taught that narcissism is linked to extremely high self esteem coupled with aggression in response to ego threats.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Welcome. ^_^ It can be kinda toxic out there. But there are friends at paizo.


DevinTowerwood wrote:

Whee, okay, sorry, I had not previously seen this thread and now I'm excited specifically due to the harsh views of trans people I've seen on other threads.

This is great and exciting. I find it incredibly difficult to find media that portrays queer people in a positive light, especially anything that isn't gritty, nihilistic dramas. And gaming has been the absolute worst community for me to find anything positive. Due to the omnipresence of misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in previous gaming communities, I've started playing almost exclusively Pathfinder and almost entirely with other queer players.

And I am interested in this Gracefully Grayson.

Don't worry, people here are extremely friendly by and large. I was surprised too. Fortunately, my own experiences with the gaming community have been largely positive, but I've heard some real horrorstories over the years.

What has really surprised me, is how many transpeople have gone the RP-way. It is such an obvious release valve, and yet I always thought I was pretty much alone in this, only to come here and find over a hundred and forty pages (by the time I discovered this thread) pages worth of LGBT-talk.

Settle in and feel welcome.

You are.

Dark Archive

DevinTowerwood wrote:

Whee, okay, sorry, I had not previously seen this thread and now I'm excited specifically due to the harsh views of trans people I've seen on other threads.

This is great and exciting. I find it incredibly difficult to find media that portrays queer people in a positive light, especially anything that isn't gritty, nihilistic dramas. And gaming has been the absolute worst community for me to find anything positive. Due to the omnipresence of misogyny, homophobia, and transphobia in previous gaming communities, I've started playing almost exclusively Pathfinder and almost entirely with other queer players.

And I am interested in this Gracefully Grayson.

** spoiler omitted **

I've have decent luck with the tabletop RPG crowd over the years. I won't pretend like Paizo/Pathfinder is perfect, but it is one of the few I see making active efforts to get better about queer topics and be more inclusive.


DevinTowerwood: UNREASONABLY high self esteem. At least, that is the image they do all they can to project. When that gets questioned, it becomes an existential threat.

Liberty's Edge

Sissyl wrote:
DevinTowerwood: UNREASONABLY high self esteem. At least, that is the image they do all they can to project. When that gets questioned, it becomes an existential threat.

Narcissism Tangent:
Not exactly. Speaking as a Psych student myself, what Devin's saying is correct.

The common belief for a long time was that narcissism was actually an overcompensation thing, or a desperate search for external validation, but evidence seems to indicate that this opinion was wrong.

People with narcissism aren't overcompensating or seeking validation from anyone but themselves, they really do just like themselves that much and think they're amazingly awesome.

Yes, they have an unreasonable amount of self-esteem, and yes they can become offended when you attack it (they're easily offended by being questioned in general), but not because it's a false image they're trying to project or because they need external validation to maintain their self-image.


We project an idealization of ourselves, all of us do (even the best of us)

The world reflects what we project back upon us

This is called the life as a mirror principle

Often, the perception we have of what we are projecting does not match what is reflected (this can be for all kinds of reasons, not simply because our self perception of what we project may be skewed)

For the narcissist, the refection, when it does not match the perception of his projection, this is a challenge not just to his opinions or ideas, but to his existence, his validity, his idealization of the self he perceives he has.

This is often referred to as pseudo-self awareness

But I am digressing from the thread topic. I apologize.

I don't think a thread talking about narcissism would go over well with the staff here, but if anyone wants to talk to me about my experiences with Narcissism, please feel free to PM me with any questions you might have.


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DevinTowerwood wrote:
I find it incredibly difficult to find media that portrays queer people in a positive light,

To be fair, the hobbits got six movies.


Frodo/Sam OTP!

Liberty's Edge

The Doomkitten wrote:

So... not big news, but...

I just saw (and read in two hours) a realistic fiction book in my public school's library about a transgirl and her experiences trying to understand itself-Gracefully Grayson is the title.

It was quite clearly for young adults, and hopefully will get lots of reads at my school as it is on the "books of the month" shelf in our library (and maybe it'll help next year, if all things go to plan and I start transitioning). However, it was also a big victory because my school's library is extremely conservative. Absolutely no LGBT stuff allowed-which is funny, because a) there are books in there that intricately describe sex scenes and b) most of our teachers are very liberal and freely talk about LGBT topics with us. As a matter of fact, My English teacher's library is chock full of LGBT topics and banned books, but I digress.

Anyways, this was somewhat a personal victory for me (although it may have just slipped under their radar because it didn't mention the word "transgender" at all, even though that was quite clearly what was happening) and I hope the library expands to include other stuff, as I am a massive reader.

I'm glad I checked this on a whim - I keep up with this thread and I'm always interested in YA books about trans people. In 2012, I did my undergrad thesis on YA transition narratives, which was interesting but also left much to be desired.

Spoiler:
Okay, spoilered due to RL reasons, mainly being my family's gaming connection and the more public nature of this alias, but I'm both queer and identify strongly - and have for ages - as nonbinary. RPGs are the only ways that I've been able to express my gender identity lately, so it's been a coping mechanism as I stay closeted. I know a spoiler won't really protect me from this being to disclosed to people outside of this thread, but it was important to me to mention.


Oh, well, if you value my opinion... XD

Freakboy by Kristin Elizabeth Clark is another good one. It's a prose book, is rather long, and is told from three separate points of view, so it requires a higher level of comprehension than Gracefully Grayson. However, it is one of the better books concerning transgender topics in my opinion, since it offers points of view from a cis woman, a fully transitioned transwoman, and a questioning non-binary (I think that's the correct term). In addition, the main protagonist's internal struggle and trying to come to terms theirself is one of the most honest experiences that I've read, and Angel, the transwoman, offers a strong character and a somewhat cautionary tale of her rather horrific experiences while transitioning. In addition, Vanessa, Brandon's girlfriend, gives insight for what it is like for a cis, straight person to react to a friend's questioning and coming out. It's a very good book, in my opinion.

Luna has received a lot of hype, but it doesn't really live up to it. Luna is somewhat of an antagonist, and constantly disrupts her sister's life. In addition, due to the fact that there's pretty much no gender related terms in places where the author obviously makes them up gives the impression that Luna was poorly researched. Luna's experiences are also a very much cookie-cutter-i.e., it pretty much fits exactly the standard mold for what most people think of what transpeople do, with no quirks or variations. I would not recommend Luna.

As an aside: I have no idea why authors think that the genres "sci fi or fantasy" is mutually exclusive from "concerning LGBT topics." To my knowledge, all books with an LGBT protagonist are realistic fiction books. Period. I would love to see a high-fantasy book with a transwoman dealing with her issues and slaying dragons or somesuch-it would really be a step forward, in my opinion.


The Doomkitten wrote:
As an aside: I have no idea why authors think that the genres "sci fi or fantasy" is mutually exclusive from "concerning LGBT topics." To my knowledge, all books with an LGBT protagonist are realistic fiction books. Period. I would love to see a high-fantasy book with a transwoman dealing with her issues and slaying dragons or somesuch-it would really be a step forward, in my opinion.

There's quite a bit of LGBTQ sf and fantasy out there. Less of it trans, but there's still some. Often, but far from always done with fantasy elements - intersex or changing races, magical transformations, or just making them common and acceptable rather than dealing with modern issues.

Examples. More examples.

For those not following SF news, the big controversy in the community now is at least partly about how the SJW types are taking over and making the Hugos all about including LGBTQ people, not real, good SF.


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One of the few books I've read that included trans people was The Left Hand of Darkness.

I recommend it highly, purely because it's a good book. It also won both the Hugo and Nebula awards for the year it was published. It's also the #3 SF book of all time according to Locus magazine.


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Sissyl wrote:
UNREASONABLY high self esteem. At least, that is the image they do all they can to project. When that gets questioned, it becomes an existential threat.

(Continuing off-topic)

Spoiler:
I've (recently and personally) had more a problem interacting with people who have unreasonably low self-esteem. They are so convinced they're worthless that any suggestion or offer of assistance in anything -- no matter how minor or well-intended -- is immediately seen as an affirmation of that suspicion, and gets warped into some kind of deadly threat to their personhood -- whereupon they counterattack far out of proportion to the supposed "offense."

Irontruth wrote:

One of the few books I've read that included trans people was The Left Hand of Darkness.

I recommend it highly, purely because it's a good book. It also won both the Hugo and Nebula awards for the year it was published. It's also the #3 SF book of all time according to Locus magazine.

It's an incredible book, but it's not quite trans people, as I understand it. IIRC, a race that switches genders rather than individuals whose gender doesn't match their assigned gender.

Still playing with similar issues, but not directly trans.

Read it anyway.


thejeff wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

One of the few books I've read that included trans people was The Left Hand of Darkness.

I recommend it highly, purely because it's a good book. It also won both the Hugo and Nebula awards for the year it was published. It's also the #3 SF book of all time according to Locus magazine.

It's an incredible book, but it's not quite trans people, as I understand it. IIRC, a race that switches genders rather than individuals whose gender doesn't match their assigned gender.

Still playing with similar issues, but not directly trans.

Read it anyway.

Well, it is SF.

It does deal with the concept of transitioning, defining people by gender roles and how some people change gender roles at different periods of their life. It's not a 1 for 1 perfect realization of a transgender person's life, but rather taking some of the concepts present in that person's life and applying them to a SF story and building an entire world and culture around those concepts.

Analogies and metaphors are not perfect representations. Otherwise we would call them perfect representations, not analogies and metaphors.

The book also appears on both lists that you linked.


Irontruth wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Irontruth wrote:

One of the few books I've read that included trans people was The Left Hand of Darkness.

I recommend it highly, purely because it's a good book. It also won both the Hugo and Nebula awards for the year it was published. It's also the #3 SF book of all time according to Locus magazine.

It's an incredible book, but it's not quite trans people, as I understand it. IIRC, a race that switches genders rather than individuals whose gender doesn't match their assigned gender.

Still playing with similar issues, but not directly trans.

Read it anyway.

Well, it is SF.

It does deal with the concept of transitioning, defining people by gender roles and how some people change gender roles at different periods of their life. It's not a 1 for 1 perfect realization of a transgender person's life, but rather taking some of the concepts present in that person's life and applying them to a SF story and building an entire world and culture around those concepts.

Analogies and metaphors are not perfect representations. Otherwise we would call them perfect representations, not analogies and metaphors.

The book also appears on both lists that you linked.

Oh definitely agreed. I just didn't want someone thinking "Oooh I get to read about a trans person."


Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

O.O

*offers hugs*


Ursula Le Guin was a favourite author of mine in the mid 70's when I was growing up. The Left Hand of Darkness is excellent, of course, as is a lot she wrote.

It is very old, and the science in the area has progressed.

Doomkitten- You have my sympathies, for what it is worth.

The burden of a transgender person is a heavy one.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Been there. First point of advice, they need your junk to make your new junk. If you're trans you'll want it, if not you'll still want it. Also, by the time you get to my age, you'll look back and wonder a bit how you could internalize so much of the crap that society puts on women. Doing things that are not stereotypical female things is not a bad thing. There are things you have to learn to make good decisions on that but a lot of those lessons don't come without living your life that way for awhile.


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The support here is breathtaking, like sunshine on a cloudy day. You are all angels in my book.

Liberty's Edge Assistant Developer

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The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Pretty much every trans person has doubts. It means you're thinking about it and considering it. We're all taught from a very young age that what we are is pretty awful in society's eye, so it's natural for your mind to keep questioning and finding excuses to not be this "horrible thing," even when your conscious mind knows that what you are isn't horrible. And if you're not trans, you'll start your transition or you'll start your hormones and it will feel awful and you can stop. No shame, and it's easy to back out.

And I have yet to meet a trans woman who hasn't considered (or attempted) mutilating her genitalia.

Shadow Lodge

The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Ummm, please let the professionals handle any knife work. It's just flesh, but it's kind of holding in the magic red liquid of life. ;)

Seriously; I know that you're not serious DK, but statements like that can scare the crap out of some of us. You are awesome as you are and will be just as awesome if you do decide to go through with transitioning. I just need to tell you that.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber
Crystal Frasier wrote:
The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Pretty much every trans person has doubts. It means you're thinking about it and considering it. We're all taught from a very young age that what we are is pretty awful in society's eye, so it's natural for your mind to keep questioning and finding excuses to not be this "horrible thing," even when your conscious mind knows that what you are isn't horrible. And if you're not trans, you'll start your transition or you'll start your hormones and it will feel awful and you can stop. No shame, and it's easy to back out.

And I have yet to meet a trans woman who hasn't considered (or attempted) mutilating her genitalia.

Is... that a sign? If someone haven't considered it, I mean?


Usual Suspect wrote:
The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Ummm, please let the professionals handle any knife work. It's just flesh, but it's kind of holding in the magic red liquid of life. ;)

Seriously; I know that you're not serious DK, but statements like that can scare the crap out of some of us. You are awesome as you are and will be just as awesome if you do decide to go through with transitioning. I just need to tell you that.

Yeah, the hormones are a much better place to start.

There's a lot of blood flow down there. Likely to be very messy. Hormones are much better.


Kalindlara wrote:
Crystal Frasier wrote:
The Doomkitten wrote:
Every once in a while, whenever I do a cis thing, I panic. "What if I'm not trans*?!!" I ask myself. Then, I realize a few things. A) The fact that I'm panicking about the possibility of being cis is a pretty big indication that I'm not. And B) The fact that I've considered taking a knife to my junk a few times in addition to seriously considering hormones offers some evidence for being trans*.

Pretty much every trans person has doubts. It means you're thinking about it and considering it. We're all taught from a very young age that what we are is pretty awful in society's eye, so it's natural for your mind to keep questioning and finding excuses to not be this "horrible thing," even when your conscious mind knows that what you are isn't horrible. And if you're not trans, you'll start your transition or you'll start your hormones and it will feel awful and you can stop. No shame, and it's easy to back out.

And I have yet to meet a trans woman who hasn't considered (or attempted) mutilating her genitalia.

Is... that a sign? If someone haven't considered it, I mean?

I don't know, but I'd look at the two lines before that.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

I did. It didn't help... I've been avoiding this thread, because it's likely that I'm going to post something painful and personal.


I'm kinda late to this whole thread. Like, really late. I've been kinda hesitant to throw in on this thread because A.) I just have no idea what the current conversation is and B.) While I am bisexual, I've never really had a chance to be apart of the queer community. I'm always worried about "belonging".

But hey, what does it hurt. Here now. You all seem friendly.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber

This isn't everything - how could it be? - but I've written so much, and I feel so guilty for wasting your time. I'm really sorry.

Long/embarrassing/self-pitying/painful/personal/poorly-edited; trigger warning: discussion of suicide, very mild discussion of sexual proclivities:
^_^ ^_^ ^_^

That's all I ever do on these boards. Smile, and try to stay positive, and be helpful. But it's not real. I changed my avatar back to its original appearance, because it's really the most appropriate. I'm miserable all the time.

Posting on these boards makes me feel a little better sometimes, when I feel like I'm helping someone, because then it feels like I'm worth something for a change. Like I'm making someone's life a little better. But it's temporary.

Nobody around me knows who I am, not really. Only five people even know I'm trans, and one - my mother - is just short of openly opposed to the idea. Around other people - even those who know - I can't break the old habits, the behaviors and acts I built up to hide myself. It eats at me all the time - the persona I can't seem to break, the way I interact with those around me, the general ruin and uselessness of my life.

I think about killing myself constantly. There's a bridge down the street, and it would be so easy to do. I think about how much it would improve the lives of those I know, once the grieving had passed. How much it costs my mother to keep me fed and entertained, despite my age. How much drama I cause for my friends, with the arguments and the bitterness and even my occasional moments when my shell cracks and a whisper of my urge creeps out. How alone I really am, ever since my mother started staying at her lover's house. I know it wouldn't really make peoples' lives better - they tell me - but it doesn't feel that way.

I've never been in a relationship, or been kissed, or even hugged (excepting platonic interactions). I'm twenty-eight and a half, and it feels like my entire life has been a waste - my childhood, my "maturity", even my barely-earned degree - worthless. And the guilt is even worse...

I feel bad because I don't love our cat enough. We'd just put our first cat, the first I'd ever had, to sleep after fifteen-plus years. I wasn't ready for a new cat, but when one was up for adoption, my mother got him anyway. I wasn't ready, and I don't love him as much as I should.

I feel bad because I have so much. My mother just gave me a pile of money to get a subscription-price case of Lost Coast minis. She's bought me every Adventure Path, every hardcover, every Player Companion, and so much else, on top of food, Internet, and utilities for a house she barely visits. I'm costing her so much, and I'm still not happy enough. Meanwhile, others would kill to have what I do.

I feel bad because I'm not contributing. I'm unemployed, and likely to remain so. I've never had a job, and I'm afraid I couldn't keep one if I got one. I dream of working at Paizo, but I don't have what they're looking for - I've never been published, my adventures are uninspired, and my ideas are lackluster, even after eighteen years of experience. I'd love to be a writer, but I feel so unoriginal and I can't write well enough or for long enough. I got a degree in Marketing, and I wasn't too bad at it, but I don't know how to fit into a "corporate lifestyle" as who I am.

I feel bad because I'm doing such a poor job with my campaigns, which are just about the only time I see other people. I argue with one of my players a lot, and it eats at me, partially because of unrequited love (though I'm not sure how much he knows), and partially because the campaigns are my one contribution, and if they go poorly, I'm failing at the only semi-worthwhile thing I'm doing. Two of my players don't know about my gender issue yet, and I'm afraid of how they'll take it (conservatives). So, I bottle it up and smile and joke.

I feel bad because people tell me I'm handsome, and I know it's wasted on me. Shaving is so much work, and it grows back so fast and so thick. (I have thought about mutilating that, for the record.) I have some girls' clothes, but they're almost all given, and they don't fit right. My body is the wrong shape all over - my midriff is too wide, my chest is too flat, my hips are too slender. I feel fat (despite being 5'3" and a little under 150 lbs.) I'm back down to a meal and a half a day, though, which is progress.

The one outlier is my "male business". It's doing just fine, although I'm not sure how much of that is coping mechanism. I have a rather infamous game downloaded to my phone, and I'll play that - manipulating the save system to tell the story of someone being changed against their will. While I'm doing other things with myself.

The fact that I feel driven to that, despite being so convinced in every other way, scares me, especially since I've never found any reliable information about this sort of thing, and nobody will talk to me about it. (As well they shouldn't - the last thing any trans woman would want is another person harassing them about their private parts.) I'm afraid that it's not real, that I'm not actually trans, and then I don't know what I'll do, because I hate so much of what I am.

So I feel trapped. According to my trans friend, the doctors here in Michigan know basically jack about this sort of thing - she had to explain it to them. Her insurance won't cover her transition, not even hormones, and mine is unlikely to be much better. The psychologists might be better, but I can barely get out of bed, let alone call one of their offices and make an appointment all by myself. I'm scared to, because I've never done it without her before. I feel like a child, who needs her hand held through everything. The last time I lost track of my mother at the store, I started crying. When she found me, she was angry at me for crying - I'm too old for that.

Don't tell me I need help, either. I know that. Everyone else I know - my mother, my fake boyfriend - they all say that. "You need help." It's their excuse for not listening. Nobody listens. Nobody listens, and I'm alone.

Silver Crusade System Administrator

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Hmmmm. A lot to process here. Let me start by saying, many of us have been where you were. I hit it in my first year of college and consequently I had problems finishing. Things got better. I started working something that I was not great at but managed to work through it and get places that I was good at. I worked very hard and had to hide for a long time. My boss made me cut my hair once and I nearly ended it there, but I realized I didn't want it to end this way, like this. And I can honestly say that it gets better. Finding help is hard and the feeling of being alone is even harder BUT I bet we can find you some free resources. I'm going to take a little time to reread through this and digest it a little.


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Kalindlara, I haven't been where you are, but I can tell you that there are people out there who will help, and who will listen. I'm not sure what sort of healthcare you have or what your finances are, but it seems like the best thing for you would be to find a psychologist or psychiatrist that is at least aware of trans issues, or ideally a specialist in gender dysphoria and transitioning.

The key is to learn how to cope. That's what the mental healthcare professional is there to help you with. They'll ask you questions that might get you to reconsider the gravity of a situation, or might help you find a way to deal with your immediate problems before working on issues that can wait.

In the meantime, you might want to try really hard to ignore the parts of your mind that keep driving you down. You don't have to put on fake positivity, but there are parts of your brain that have been taken over by depression, which is an illness like any other, and you cannot trust what those parts of your brain are telling you. The parts of your brain that tell you how much of a failure you are, and call you all sorts of names, have been compromised. Do not trust them.


I'm sorry Kalindlara. That sounds truly painful.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

<de-lurking> I'm so sorry, Kalindlara. I can't speak to trans issues, but I can speak to the negative self-talk which I've had all my life. Please talk to your regular doctor about getting on an anti-depressant. I was first diagnosed with major depression when I was 15, and the first anti-depressant I was prescribed made me feel like the world had been wiped clean. I didn't change, but everything felt better, easier, lighter. It didn't make things perfect -- I still had all the issues that caused the depression in the first place -- but it helped.

I take anti-depressants now to be normal, to function. This is an illness, just like diabetes or high blood pressure or anything else where you would need to take a maintenance medicine. Please don't feel that you've failed somehow if you need this medicine.

And, please, don't harm yourself. I've only interacted with you as I lurked on these boards, and you have so much to share!

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