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Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.

you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?


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Just that. The post intrigues.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.
you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?

If the board allowed it, Freehold would post a picture of one of his Vulcan eyebrows rising up.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

That's what YouTube and nearly 60 years of Vulcans raising their eyebrow is for:-D


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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.
you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?

That he has a degree in psycology ? :)

edit: i swear i made that joke and THEN looked at his profile...


2 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.
you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?

That he has a degree in psycology ? :)

edit: i swear i made that joke and THEN looked at his profile...

The guy just can't turn it off, can he?


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
David M Mallon wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.
you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?

That he has a degree in psycology ? :)

edit: i swear i made that joke and THEN looked at his profile...

The guy just can't turn it off, can he?

Interesting.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
captain yesterday wrote:
David M Mallon wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.
you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?

That he has a degree in psycology ? :)

edit: i swear i made that joke and THEN looked at his profile...

The guy just can't turn it off, can he?
Interesting.

Fascinating. Intriguing, even.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

here's some of what i know about viking age washing habits: they washed their faces every morning. At the beginning of every meal they washed their hands (which is more than can be said for most people today!!). In some places saturday was known as 'washing day'.

ibn fadlan complained about the washing habits of the rus, but he did exaggerate his complaints, and he was impossible to please anyway; due to being a muslim familiar with the tradition of never washing in the same water that was already washed in. If you got past the complaining, he did report that they have meticulous, daily washing rituals.

interesting.
you've replied to a number of my posts saying interesting, what does it mean?

That he has a degree in psycology ? :)

edit: i swear i made that joke and THEN looked at his profile...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!


almost as good as accusing someone of using a mathematicians answer and getting told they're a math teacher...


The concept of "caucasian" as a race (not as a group of ethnicities native to the caucasus region) owes its origins to bad racialist anthropology of the late 19th century.

From my memory: the oldest known modern human skulls at the time were found in the region of the caucasus. Some dumbass decided that the first modern human skulls must belong to the white race or whatever, so in his racial system he called such people "caucasoid". It really has nothing, ethnically or culturally, to do with the actual people of the Caucasus, who were not and still are not considered white.

Race is a purely social distinction with no basis in biology; it is even an extremely poor picture of actual patterns of early human migration (which form genetic clines/gradients/continua, rather than distinct categories of human beings). Its main function (I speak for the US here) is to break solidarity amongst the poor in order to secure the exclusive possession of capital by a mainly old-wealthy anglo-american upper class; to make castes out of people.


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While I agree with the latter, this sounds like more opinion than fact. Let's try to keep this thread focused on more dry data and less accusations of dumbassery, however plausible.


fair enough.

the Tibetan form of the game go still uses the 17x17 board. Go was originally played on a 17x17 board, but by the Sui dynasty 19x19 started to be used, and in most forms of the game, it is the standard grid size.


Bugles snacks debuted in May 1964 with regional launches in Seattle, Portland, Omaha, Des Moines, Buffalo and Syracuse. Its national launch came later in 1966. Bugles was actually among a trio of new General Mills snacks which included Whistles – a cheddar-flavored corn product in the shape of a whistle and “taste like grilled cheese on toast, only crunchy”; and Daisy*s – a flower-shaped snack that had the flavor of “puffed popovers.” Whistles and Daisy*s were discontinued after only a few years. Bugles has four core flavors – Original, Nacho Cheese, Chocolate Peanut Butter, and Caramel – but through the years there have been a number of varieties that came and went or were offered on a limited basis. Bugles are sold in Canada, China, Saudi Arabia and several more countries in Central America and the Caribbean. Other countries that have tasted Bugles include France, South Korea and Thailand.


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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Race is a purely social distinction with no basis in biology

I suspect you could make a case that frequency of genetic markers (for increased melanin expression, epicanthal folds, etc., or just of junk DNA that doesn't do anything but varies by ancestry) could be used to make statistical groupings. Those markers themselves are biological, not societal, but all the groups would of course blend into each other. Here is a popular science article that's pretty frank about the limitations.


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If you would try to use the concept of race productively, it's very likely that you would need to limit it to the various very isolated peoples around the world. Among those, a number are more adapted to the harsher environments they lived in than most humans are. Still, considering the bogeyman the term is today, it isn't a useful concept.

And claiming it is all social is, as usual, just as useless. Nothing in our human experience is "all social".


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

What did you do Anius!

noooo!!


read the clause and following parenthetical statement directly after the semicolon.


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captain yesterday wrote:

What did you do Anius!

noooo!!

I anthropologied. whoops.

(More accurately, I anthropologied and that ADHD'd into a rant but that wasn't as catchy)


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Alexithymia /ˌeɪlɛksəˈθaɪmiə/ is a personality construct characterized by the sub-clinical inability to identify and describe emotions in the self.[1] The core characteristics of alexithymia are marked dysfunction in emotional awareness, social attachment, and interpersonal relating.[2] Furthermore, individuals suffering from alexithymia also have difficulty in distinguishing and appreciating the emotions of others, which is thought to lead to unempathic and ineffective emotional responding.[2] Alexithymia is prevalent in approximately 10% of the general population and is known to be comorbid with a number of psychiatric conditions.[3]

... i thought this was just called being male.


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...that this is my 1000th post.

Silver Crusade

Gary Burghoff (the actor who played Radar in M*A*S*H) suffers from a deformity on his left hand. He hid this in numerous ways during the course of the series.


lucky7 wrote:
Gary Burghoff (the actor who played Radar in M*A*S*H) suffers from a deformity on his left hand. He hid this in numerous ways during the course of the series.

A Fellow Gary.

Silver Crusade

Listerine was originally used as an antiseptic in WWI.


Asians have dry earwax


Won't interbreeding have eliminated all racial differences in a millennium or so? We will all be one big dysfunctional race.


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There's too much disparity to tell. There are also populations that have not joined the world as we know it, along with individuals who will not participate in such interbreeding. It's going to take more than a millenium.


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Aranna wrote:
Won't interbreeding have eliminated all racial differences in a millennium or so? We will all be one big dysfunctional race.

Oh hello, studying history from a genetic evolutionary and anthropological perspective is my calling!

substituting "racial" for "genetic" in your statement here, no, that doesn't happen, because the imperfect process of DNA replication inevitably produces mutations, which are flaws, imperfections in the process that lead to development of new genotypes and phenotypes. Most are neutral and some are even harmful, but some can turn out to be beneficial for that organism's survival.

This is actually a fundamental problem Darwin struggled with when he first tried to explain natural selection! He understood how traits favorable and unfavorable for survival would change in frequency of expression in offspring, but he had no idea how new traits were generated in the first place, because he knew nothing of genetics. The prevailing theory about inheritance at the time was that traits blended together in offspring like colors of paint, but this model would inevitably lead to a decrease in biodiversity, so it didn't hold up. As a result, Darwin's theory was unpopular until the principles of mendelian genetics and the Hardy-Weinberg Principle, and mutations, were discovered

So there will always be genetic variation in a population, because mutuations accumulate over time. The older a population is, the more genetic variation is in that population. East Africa is home to populations with some of the most genetic diversity in the world, which is another piece of evidence for the hypothesis that homo sapiens emerged in East Africa, and it is following patterns like these that allows us to reconstruct the ancient human migrations.

that being said, we have always been one dysfunctional race, because it is generally agreed by modern anthropologists worth their salt and by population geneticists that ideas about race, in spite of their devastating sociopolitical impact, are not biological truths and do not accurately describe the actual genetic variation and history of the species. Human genetic variation (and naturla genetic variation in general to be honest) is best described in terms of "genetic clines", which, if you are familiar with the field of linguistics, may be compared with dialectal continua. They are kind of like spectrums in which the percentage of traits that occur in some population gradually changes from one end of a geographical area to another.

The map in the article about earwax shared by bignorsewolf shows a very good example of how a genetic cline might look like, for a single trait. Unfortunately the article doesn't really provide an explanation of how to read the map, so I am inferring that yellow in the pie represents the dry earwax genotype, while the blue in the pie represents the gene for wet earwax. We can see from this map that wet earwax occurs with the greatest frequency in the heart of africa, with an increase in dry earwax frequency in saudi arabia. This increases more moderately when we look at europe (notice that the frequency of dry earwax is less in the iberian peninsula than the rest of europe, which I suspect may be an artifact of arabic settlement in that region), and the frequency becomes much greater the further east we go through siberia, towards korea. Frequencies are also high in india, and then something interesting happens in southeast asia, where it appears slightly less common than wet earwax, rising again in northerly indonesia but becoming less than half again in the rest of indonesia, decreasing as we expand out into oceania. And assuming that the pies in the Americas represent indigenous populations, frequency appears high in the western native populations and decreases dramatically the closer we get to south america, but the frequency in peru is still the greatest for the data the map shows. This is interesting to me because it reminds me of how the early expansions of humans into the americas came along the coast of the beringia (so dry earwax may have already become a significant feature of the ancestral populations of the migrants), and seemed to hug the western coast of the americas first, and there is even small amounts of evidence for settlement in the andes that are Much Older Than Previously Expected. I wish we had more data about North Africa in comparison to Saudi Arabia and the rest of Africa so we can see if there is a population difference as a result of ancient Afro-Asiatic migrations and the more recent invasions by the caliphate. More detailed data about eastern europeans focusing on the Romani/Sinti populations who live there would also be interesting to see.

also, remember that the map gives data for single alleles, not genotypes (your pair of alleles) or phenotypes (the trait you actually express), so because dry earwax is a recessive trait, less people in a population may actually have dry earwax than the percentage of alleles may seem to show.

Sorry about that enormous paragraph, but I hope that the map and my analysis gives an example of the rich complexity of the patterns in human genetic variation, and this is even one gene. Imagine different maps like this for different genes, with patterns that may be similar to earwax, or very very different. Lump all these together, and you have a far more accurate and reliable picture of human diversity than a system of "race" will ever give.

I hope this explanation helps.


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Quote:
that being said, we have always been one dysfunctional race, because it is generally agreed by modern anthropologists worth their salt and by population geneticists that ideas about race, in spite of their devastating sociopolitical impact, are not biological truths and do not accurately describe the actual genetic variation and history of the species.

*headscratch* Statements like this from the sociology types tend to puzzle me a bit. Are we you guys operating under the assumption that biology needs discrete categories or some sort of platonic standard to go with? Biology is pretty used to the concept that life doesn't color within the lines but its pretty important to note the blue patch over thataway and the orange patch over there.

The Exchange

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Aranna wrote:
Won't interbreeding have eliminated all racial differences in a millennium or so? We will all be one big dysfunctional race.

We are all one big dysfunctional race. To sum up what has already been said.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Quote:
that being said, we have always been one dysfunctional race, because it is generally agreed by modern anthropologists worth their salt and by population geneticists that ideas about race, in spite of their devastating sociopolitical impact, are not biological truths and do not accurately describe the actual genetic variation and history of the species.

*headscratch* Statements like this from the sociology types tend to puzzle me a bit. Are we you guys operating under the assumption that biology needs discrete categories or some sort of platonic standard to go with? Biology is pretty used to the concept that life doesn't color within the lines but its pretty important to note the blue patch over that away and the orange patch over there.

the thing is though, ideas of race weren't created by biologists. they weren't even created by natural philosophers. they have a sociopolitical, rather than scientific origin, and a good example is the rise of the concept of whiteness in the later days of the thirteen colonies, which was a direct response to european and african indentured servants being able to join together and overpower the land-owning upper class--race was legally defined at this time, first by Virginia, to make african-derived servants into a chattel slave undercaste and drive a wedge between the indentured servants, breaking solidarity and preserving the elite's grasp on their property. The one-drop rule was developed to keep the property of the land-owning upper class within those families, and increase the amount of slaves.

There was a phase of racialist pseudoscience associated with the rise of nationalism in like the latter 19th century early 20th, which made some 'updates' to the idea of race and which is where the terms Caucasoid, Mongoloid, etc come from. They're discredited now, thank the beautiful gods, (though the idea of a caucasian race still sticks around, in casual parlance and the census but thankfully no decent anthropologist takes seriously as a classification of human beings) but that's still where ideas of race came from: politics and pseudoscience. not biology.

Anyway for example, a person doesn't have dry earwax because they're asian. In fact, they might not even be asian, as the map shows there are lots of places in the world where the dry earwax allele is common, not just asia. They have dry earwax because they inherited two copies of the allele from both parents. That's it. That's the reason. Dry earwax happens to be a frequent allele occuring within asian populations, an artifact of migrations that happened after the gene mutated and multiplied in the population. it is not an inherent quality of your family being entirely from asia, and the same can be said of pretty much any other allele, no matter how unlikely it is some allele might not be inherited.

isolated populations that don't intermix with other populations are also in a minority--most people are not Sentinelese. Most 'gene pools' spill over into neighboring ones, and the neighboring ones spill over into their neighbors, forming genetic clines, as they have for centuries. Migrations leave a lasting genetic mark on their destinations, uncovered through the study of population genetics, and have done so since the palaeolithic.

The entire rest of the post you quoted already preemptively responds to your comment. Genetic variation exists. it is just not accurately described by race, and genetic clines make a better model.

Besides if we were to try to model human genetic variation with race, there would be a bajillion races native to east africa alone, and no racialist believes that.

Silver Crusade

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Santa Claus has official Canadian citizenship, and the postal code HOH OHO.

Silver Crusade

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The iconic "Welcome to Fabulous Las Vegas sign" was constructed (and is still used by) the town of Paradise, Nevada, which was created as a city-sized tax dodge.


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Given the scientific innovations resulting in space lettuce, O'Neill cylinder greenhouses are inevitable!


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Hitdice wrote:
Given the scientific innovations resulting in space lettuce, O'Neill cylinder greenhouses are inevitable!

We can't create those. Those dirty Zeon dogs will live in them and drop one on the earth!!!!!

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:


Race is a purely social distinction with no basis in biology; it is even an extremely poor picture of actual patterns of early human migration (which form genetic clines/gradients/continua, rather than distinct categories of human beings). Its main function (I speak for the US here) is to break solidarity amongst the poor in order to secure the exclusive possession of capital by a mainly old-wealthy anglo-american upper class; to make castes out of people.

That's not exactly true. Races are groupings of DNA families. But not every DNA family describes what people might call a race. Also the distinction between race and closed ethnic group tends to blur.

Koreans for example are a rather isolated genetic population, so they have DNA groupings which are unique to them, as do ethnic Jews. Koreans show distinctive features and qualities compared to other Asian populations, but they are still members of the same hominid subspecies Homo Sapiens Sapiens, that include Afro-Americans and Scots.

Simmilarly you have diseases such as Tay-Sachs which only arise from the combination of recessive genetic factors.

Races are like planets. We can point to groups of people and call them a race, but we really don't have a good scientific definition for them.


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Doesn't that just mean that planets are a sociological construct, with no standard definition in the scientific community at large?


LazarX wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:


Race is a purely social distinction with no basis in biology; it is even an extremely poor picture of actual patterns of early human migration (which form genetic clines/gradients/continua, rather than distinct categories of human beings). Its main function (I speak for the US here) is to break solidarity amongst the poor in order to secure the exclusive possession of capital by a mainly old-wealthy anglo-american upper class; to make castes out of people.

That's not exactly true. Races are groupings of DNA families. But not every DNA family describes what people might call a race. Also the distinction between race and closed ethnic group tends to blur.

Koreans for example are a rather isolated genetic population, so they have DNA groupings which are unique to them, as do ethnic Jews. Koreans show distinctive features and qualities compared to other Asian populations, but they are still members of the same hominid subspecies Homo Sapiens Sapiens, that include Afro-Americans and Scots.

Simmilarly you have diseases such as Tay-Sachs which only arise from the combination of recessive genetic factors.

Races are like planets. We can point to groups of people and call them a race, but we really don't have a good scientific definition for them.

you're describing a genetic population. race isn't a synonym for a genetic population, and it's not a scientific term.


Hitdice wrote:
Doesn't that just mean that planets are a sociological construct, with no standard definition in the scientific community at large?

it basically is! The idea of a planet has changed dramatically over time. A long time ago, a planet was a wandering star, then it came to be a sun-orbiting solid or gaseous body, then the discovery of many bodies like pluto cast doubt on the idea of a planet that was common until the 21st century.

Grand Lodge

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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Hitdice wrote:
Doesn't that just mean that planets are a sociological construct, with no standard definition in the scientific community at large?
it basically is! The idea of a planet has changed dramatically over time. A long time ago, a planet was a wandering star, then it came to be a sun-orbiting solid or gaseous body, then the discovery of many bodies like pluto cast doubt on the idea of a planet that was common until the 21st century.

Just after the launch of New Horizons after much wrangling the Interational Astronomical Union came up with a scientific definition of a planet. It's not a wholly good one... If Earth for example were located in Pluto's orbit, it would fail the definition by not having cleaned up it's orbit. But then, Earth class rocky planets would not form out that far from the Sun.


Donald Duck's middle name is Fauntleroy.


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Author Gary K. Wolf liked the film "Who Framed Roger Rabbit," an adaptation of his novel Who Censored Roger Rabbit?, so much that he wrote a follow-up book, Who P-P-P-Plugged Roger Rabbit?, which retcons the original novel and includes significantly more elements from the film.


Pamela Low, a flavorist at Arthur D. Little and 1951 graduate of the University of New Hampshire with a microbiology degree, developed the original Cap'n Crunch flavor in 1963 — recalling a recipe of brown sugar and butter her grandmother Luella Low served over rice at her home in Derry, New Hampshire. Before developing the flavor, the cereal already had a marketing plan, and once having arrived at the flavor coating for Cap'n Crunch, Low described it as giving the cereal a quality she called "want-more-ishness". After her death in 2007, the Boston Globe called Low "the mother of Cap'n Crunch." In 1965, the Quaker Oats Company awarded Robert Rountree Reinhart, Sr., the Fredus N. Peters Award for his leadership in directing the development team of Cap'n Crunch. Reinhart developed a technique in the manufacture of Cap'n Crunch, using oil in its recipe as a flavor delivery mechanism — which initially presented problems in having the cereal bake properly.


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Bill Paxton is the only actor to have been killed on screen by a Xenomorph (as Hudson in Aliens), a Predator (as Detective Lambert in Predator 2), a Terminator (as "punk leader" in The Terminator), and an Avenger (if you count Phil Coulson as a member of the team; Paxton played John Garrett in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.).


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Actor Kevin Peter Hall, best remembered for his role as the Predator (and Harry from Harry and the Hendersons), was one of the final contenders for the roles of both Data and Geordi on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

During his days in the Prydonian Academy, The Doctor earned the nickname Theta-Sigma.


Pathfinder Adventure Subscriber

Before starting Chic, Nile Rodgers was a member of the Sesame Street Band.


High Point, in Montague, Sussex County, New Jersey, in the Skylands Region, is the highest elevation in the state at 1,803 feet (550 m). It is southeast of Port Jervis, New York. High Point is the highest peak of the Kittatinny Mountains. Three states – New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania – can be seen from the top.


Port jervis has an elevation of 400 feet. meaning that the road gets really interesting for tractor trailers that can't go up or can't stop coming down..


when a webpage is designed to shrink and rearrange itself and accommodate for any window size (from desktop computers to mobile phones), that is called responsive web design.

The paizo web design is not responsive. The PRD, however, is.

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