Jonathan Tweet & Rob Heinsoo: Making their own 5th Edition?


4th Edition

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Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Marc Radle wrote:
Digitalelf wrote:
SuperSlayer wrote:
This upcoming "13th Age" game kind of just popped out of nowhere. I'll keep an eye out for it to see if it's any good but it's starting to get ridiculous with all these versions of D&D.
Unless they use the OGL, it probably won't be another version of D&D, but just another fantasy RPG (there IS a difference)...
According to the press release above, it IS being published under the OGL ...

Which means if anything it's aimed more at Pathfinder, than 4/5th Edition.


LazarX wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Digitalelf wrote:
SuperSlayer wrote:
This upcoming "13th Age" game kind of just popped out of nowhere. I'll keep an eye out for it to see if it's any good but it's starting to get ridiculous with all these versions of D&D.
Unless they use the OGL, it probably won't be another version of D&D, but just another fantasy RPG (there IS a difference)...
According to the press release above, it IS being published under the OGL ...
Which means if anything it's aimed more at Pathfinder, than 4/5th Edition.

Mechanically it will be (assuming there weren't great changes since the betatests) closer to D&D 4th edition than Pathfinder.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Drejk wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Digitalelf wrote:
SuperSlayer wrote:
This upcoming "13th Age" game kind of just popped out of nowhere. I'll keep an eye out for it to see if it's any good but it's starting to get ridiculous with all these versions of D&D.
Unless they use the OGL, it probably won't be another version of D&D, but just another fantasy RPG (there IS a difference)...
According to the press release above, it IS being published under the OGL ...
Which means if anything it's aimed more at Pathfinder, than 4/5th Edition.
Mechanically it will be (assuming there weren't great changes since the betatests) closer to D&D 4th edition than Pathfinder.

If I recall correctly, there isn't that much OGL to 4th and 5th.


It's really aimed at a different area IMO. It's using a system similar to 3.X, but is solidly trying to take it both back into an old school place while still learning from a lot of really new design theories.

They're doing a good job of defining in-combat abilities, setting up options to choose from for different combat styles and tactics. But for character concept and customization, they're basically leaving blank spaces on the character sheet. There's definite things you're supposed to put there, but there isn't a menu to choose from, you have to create your own.

I really like that, as it leaves things open to the imagination and interpretation of the group. Which leads to their world concept. They put in a few evocative concepts, but left things vague enough, that each group can interpret them and change them to their preferences. There is no cannon to follow or change. Enough is described to get something started, but then your imagination can take over and fill in the rest.

More games need to leave blank spaces to be filled with player/GM ideas.


LazarX wrote:
Drejk wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Marc Radle wrote:
Digitalelf wrote:
SuperSlayer wrote:
This upcoming "13th Age" game kind of just popped out of nowhere. I'll keep an eye out for it to see if it's any good but it's starting to get ridiculous with all these versions of D&D.
Unless they use the OGL, it probably won't be another version of D&D, but just another fantasy RPG (there IS a difference)...
According to the press release above, it IS being published under the OGL ...
Which means if anything it's aimed more at Pathfinder, than 4/5th Edition.
Mechanically it will be (assuming there weren't great changes since the betatests) closer to D&D 4th edition than Pathfinder.
If I recall correctly, there isn't that much OGL to 4th and 5th.

You could clone 4E using the OGL pretty easily, especially considering that 4E basically uses the d20 system.


If you like C&D orders.


Zardnaar wrote:
If you like C&D orders.

You use the OGL. You can make a clone using it just like Pathfinder uses it to make a clone of 3.5.

Its such a versatile thing that pretty much anything in a fantasy RPG can be envisioned under the OGL. Heck people where making non-fantasy games using it.

There is no C&D because WOTC very explicitly forfeited all such rights in perpetuity when they created the OGL. Furthermore the OGL certianly does not forbid one from using different mechanics then was the case in 3rd. One can put in any mechanic that one can envision and its pretty easy to envision 4E mechanics. One can clone 4E using the OGL just so long as one is very careful never to mention Forgotten Realms, Ebberon or other specific IP of WOTC such as Beholders and Mind Flayers. Its their settings you can't touch - all their mechanics are usable.

The fact that 4E does not have an OGL is irrelevant - you clone it using the 3.5 OGL since that is so versatile it'll make anything and in particular it will have an easy time with 4E as the underlying system for 3rd and 4th are very close - they are both the d20 system basically.


It would be a brave company who tried that in court. I thought the OGL more or less applied to the SRD and then people made clones of BECMI using the OGL so IDK.


Zardnaar wrote:
If you like C&D orders.

Given that 13th age is already out there, in the geeksphere, and that it has already been getting money from the public, you'd think that any C&D order would have already reared its head.

I think that between the OGL and the legal provision which means that game rules cannot be copy righted it would be very difficult for WotC to quash this.


13th age is not a 4th ed clone though so WoTC can't do much about it.


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I received my hardcopy of the 13th Age Bestiary earlier this week. Saturday night I'm going to run another 13th Age session, a conversion of Paizo's "Hollow's Last Hope" module for new players. I'm replacing some of the encounters with new creatures from the Bestiary such as stirges, kobold shadow-warriors, and a redcap!

I love 13th Age. I hope the new players do also.


Torpedo wrote:

I received my hardcopy of the 13th Age Bestiary earlier this week. Saturday night I'm going to run another 13th Age session, a conversion of Paizo's "Hollow's Last Hope" module for new players. I'm replacing some of the encounters with new creatures from the Bestiary such as stirges, kobold shadow-warriors, and a redcap!

I love 13th Age. I hope the new players do also.

If 5e doesn't pan out, I'm really looking for a new RPG to try. I love 3.5 / PF and 4e but Im not sure Next will be accepted by my players (its been free til now so we've been playtesting) but I don't think it has the feel they're looking for. 13th Age has been said to have been a nice replacement for 4e with some touch up. Now I know its not the sae and I knkw there are MANY different elements, but is the feel similar? By feel, I mean does it feel like Im playing a hero from 1st level and is combat engaging and thorough?


Diffan wrote:
...does it feel like Im playing a hero from 1st level and is combat engaging and thorough?

Absolutely. Characters are very much heroic right at character creation. Combat is engaging because the natural d20 roll triggers different outcomes in addition to determining whether an attack hit or missed. Sounds similar to 4th ed conventions, right? But where 4th ed had a lot of features I didn't like, bland powers and powers entirely focused on a tactical grid (push, pull, marked, etc.) 13th Age powers, talents, spells, and feats are bursting with flavor and story possibilities. Each class feels unique.

13th Age really took the best parts of 3rd and 4th, and has enough of a nod to the flavor and feel of Basic / 1st that it is my favorite fantasy rpg yet. The SRD is up, but I'd recommend getting the core book as it contains design notes and flavor text that isn't in the SRD, and those extras make the book a joy to read.

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