How to make Elven Chain?


Rules Questions


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Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.

What feats etc does someone need to make it?


That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral. Get thee to an armorer.

Same as Dwarven Plate and Mithral Shirt, they are simply nonmagical armor made with special materials and have no feat or spell prerequisites.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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Take one elf.
Cut into thin strips.
Let strips dry.
Bend strips into links.
Voila! Elven chain.


Some call me Tim wrote:
That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral.

Incorrect.

Elven chain costs 850 gp more than mithral chainmail (4,300 gp), and for good reason;

Elven Chain wrote:
This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.

Emphasis mine.

Mithral alone does not do this.

But, yes, it is nonmagical and only requires Craft checks as opposed to item creation feats.


Nitpicking: actually 1000 gp more expensive, mithral includes masterwork, so it would be 4150 gp for the normal mithral chainmail :)

Ok, so craft check.

What would be the cost in sp?
Does that include the mitral?
The +1000 gp for light armor proficiency?
Or are those added later?
At full or 1/3 of price?
What's the DC to make that thing?

That's all somewhat important how long it takes to make and how expensive it is.

Unfortunately the craft skill is very silent about all those issues. (And yes, I know craft skill in general is a mess)


Quatar wrote:
Nitpicking: actually 1000 gp more expensive, mithral includes masterwork, so it would be 4150 gp for the normal mithral chainmail :)

Fact.


The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
Some call me Tim wrote:
That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral.

Incorrect.

You're right. Well, that's what one gets tries to beat the ninjas.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quatar wrote:

Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.

What feats etc does someone need to make it?

It's a secret only known to the most ancient of elven crafters.

Translation: NPC only.


LazarX wrote:
Quatar wrote:

Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.

What feats etc does someone need to make it?

It's a secret only known to the most ancient of elven crafters.

There ancient because if you really apply the crafting rules: 51500sp/(DC 16 * 16)=up to 201 weeks to make one of these things.

To be honest I've never seen a definitive ruling on whether the special materials cost means longer craft times. Masterwork is treated as a separate item so I imagine special materials would be too.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Some call me Tim wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Quatar wrote:

Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.

What feats etc does someone need to make it?

It's a secret only known to the most ancient of elven crafters.

There ancient because if you really apply the crafting rules: 51500sp/(DC 16 * 16)=up to 201 weeks to make one of these things.

To be honest I've never seen a definitive ruling on whether the special materials cost means longer craft times. Masterwork is treated as a separate item so I imagine special materials would be too.

Waht's 201 weeks for an elf? Remember they build those suits for millennia of use.


If I am remembering my Craft rules correctly (it has been a long time since I've used them, so I may be wrong), I believe:

The DC of the armor itself is 16. The DC of the masterwork component is 20. Elven chain would be 50,000 sp at a DC of 16 and 1,500 sp at a DC of 20, mithral chainmail would be 40,000 sp at a DC of 16 and 1,500 at a DC of 20. 1/3 of these total prices must be paid to attempt to craft them. It will take an incredibly long time to make either even for a good craftsman.

And, yes, the Craft score in general is a mess. Luckily, there is hope.


Some call me Tim wrote:
The Elusive Jackalope wrote:
Some call me Tim wrote:
That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral.
Incorrect.
You're right. Well, that's what one gets tries to beat the ninjas.

This thread made me realize that I've been paying 150 gp more for mithral armors than I've needed too for a long time.


LazarX wrote:
Waht's 201 weeks for an elf? Remember they build those suits for millennia of use.

Yeah, that's why it takes an elf, everyone else dies of old age before they figure out the secrets.


I guess there goes my plan of taking a few ranks in Craft (armor) buy a masterwork tool and try to convince my GM I made it myself before the game started :(

Guess i'm stuck with a normal chainshirt for now.


Matthew Morris wrote:

Take one elf.

Cut into thin strips.
Let strips dry.
Bend strips into links.
Voila! Elven chain.

while supposed to be funny

I find this rather disgusting.......

you really want elfin chain

gather one elf

put elf in manacles.

wallla

elfin chain

seriously

elven chain is nothing more than mithral chainmail with the deisgn of the pauldrons and such parts to be leafy in appearance. armor may contain a greenish or blueish tint


Quatar wrote:
I guess there goes my plan of taking a few ranks in Craft (armor) buy a masterwork tool and try to convince my GM I made it myself before the game started :(

Oh in that case, just add four years to your starting age--you're done. :-P


Some call me Tim wrote:
Quatar wrote:
I guess there goes my plan of taking a few ranks in Craft (armor) buy a masterwork tool and try to convince my GM I made it myself before the game started :(
Oh in that case, just add four years to your starting age--you're done. :-P

Session 1: "The party delves into the den where criminals have been unlawfully raising and fighting rust monsters for profit."


I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.

the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.


rat_ bastard wrote:

I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.

the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.

I actually agree with you there.

But it shows another problem I have with the craft skill. Having 2 people instead of 1 work on it, does not cut the time in half, but just gives you a +2 on your craftskill, which usually doesn't change the outcome very much.
The 201 weeks it takes get reduced to 179 weeks by the +2. Ok thats an improvement, but just about 10%.


fabricate.

Quatar wrote:

But it shows another problem I have with the craft skill. Having 2 people instead of 1 work on it, does not cut the time in half, but just gives you a +2 on your craftskill, which usually doesn't change the outcome very much.

The 201 weeks it takes get reduced to 179 weeks by the +2. Ok thats an improvement, but just about 10%.

Get even more people?

Different craftings would have different levels of efficiency for multiple assistants--some jobs are more assembly-line in nature, so they'd divvy the work up efficiently among assistants, while some jobs don't really get much easier with more than one or two craftspeople. In the case of chainmail (arcane elven secrets aside), it would be very helpful to have a lot of people while forging the links and disparate pieces, but not as much when assembling the final product. Carving a wooden flute would likely not benefit at all from having more than one craftsman apart from advice or maybe "hold this steady while I bore a hole here". There's just no way to codify all that variation into rules without players and GMs tearing their hair out, so we instead have a single easy-to-remember rule.


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The Elusive Jackalope wrote:


And, yes, the Craft score in general is a mess. Luckily, there is hope.

Hope Rides Alone


I find it much more reasonable to not count the value of the special materials when determining the crafting time. A suit of chainmail takes the same amount of time to make out of mithral or adamantine as it does out of steel.


Jeraa wrote:
I find it much more reasonable to not count the value of the special materials when determining the crafting time. A suit of chainmail takes the same amount of time to make out of mithral or adamantine as it does out of steel.

Nah, I disagree.

"The tricky thing about [strike]adamantium[/strike] adamantine is, that if you ever manage to process its raw, liquid form, you got to keep it that way, keep it hot. Because once the metal cools, it's indestructible. But you already know that."

; )


Quatar wrote:
How to make Elven Chain?

It doesn't really work. They don't smelt into any dependable alloys. You're really better off making leather out of them instead.

The best part is if you have the right magic, you'll only ever need a single source of material!


Starfinder Superscriber

I was going to say something like you have to finely grind your elf and add it to the metal, but Matthew Morris beat me to it. Bravo


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quatar wrote:
rat_ bastard wrote:

I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.

the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.

I actually agree with you there.

But it shows another problem I have with the craft skill. Having 2 people instead of 1 work on it, does not cut the time in half, but just gives you a +2 on your craftskill, which usually doesn't change the outcome very much.
The 201 weeks it takes get reduced to 179 weeks by the +2. Ok thats an improvement, but just about 10%.

Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

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rat_ bastard wrote:
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.

The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.


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Matthew Morris wrote:
rat_ bastard wrote:
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.

Doing it that way comes with a +1 flaming sword and a glove of storing, though.


blahpers wrote:
Jeraa wrote:
I find it much more reasonable to not count the value of the special materials when determining the crafting time. A suit of chainmail takes the same amount of time to make out of mithral or adamantine as it does out of steel.

Nah, I disagree.

"The tricky thing about [strike]adamantium[/strike] adamantine is, that if you ever manage to process its raw, liquid form, you got to keep it that way, keep it hot. Because once the metal cools, it's indestructible. But you already know that."

; )

:) Which sure tells me the adamantine armorer MUST NOT BE taking extra time...he's got to be about it once he starts. It makes even less sense for adamantine to take longer in that context. ;)


Matthew Morris wrote:
rat_ bastard wrote:
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.

No with that kind of assembly you have a guy overseeing the entire project and standards for ring width, size of the armor etc.


Matthew Morris wrote:

Take one elf.

Cut into thin strips.
Let strips dry.
Bend strips into links.
Voila! Elven chain.

Yay! Now druids can wear it.


BigNorseWolf wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

Take one elf.

Cut into thin strips.
Let strips dry.
Bend strips into links.
Voila! Elven chain.

Yay! Now druids can wear it.

Sweet!! I'm rolling up a druid! If my DM questions him wearing Elven Chain, I'll just point him to the Paizo Boards.

-Aaron


The other thing that factors in to the crafting rules, is you can only craft one item at a time. Crafting is an 8-hour a day process. If it takes you 201 weeks to craft something, at 8 hours a day, how are you affording to pay for family to eat? Your house? Your forge? Your coal? Your ingots?

When you stop and look at things in the crafting section, making anything masterwork or of a special material sums up to a once a decade kind of thing for most weapon/armor smiths.

It's just one of those things that I think is odd. If we were to strictly follow crafting rules, there really would be almost no magical items available because the weapon smiths simply don't have the time to forge those masterwork weapons.

Shadow Lodge

Matthew Morris wrote:
rat_ bastard wrote:
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.

And the right foot still has nothing but the primer coat because it got dented and when my cousin fixed it he didn't bother to finish painting it.


Phase 1: Collect elves

Phase 2: ???

Phase 3: ELVEN CHAIN!


How do you make Human Chain? Come on, protesters do it all the time. They all link arms and stand somewhere inconvenient while singing "We Shall Overcome."

Proof that Elves aren't hippies: they take four years to do what real hippies can do in less than an hour.


Quote:

Matthew Morris wrote:

rat_ bastard wrote:
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.

I thought if it was made seperately that it has to be done by a witch?


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rat_ bastard wrote:

I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.

the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.

I've seen it done by guys with a pair of shears, some wire, and a lot of spare time.


Most of the locals I know who make shears use heavy duty snips, 16or 14 guage steel wire and a dowel with a slit down it for easy cutting. Wrap around the dowle until you have a coil, snip the coil.

Can take a week to a month or so to make a full shirt (short sleeves).

I've done some lighter in silver, but I've had to hang up my tools since, but at least one lady I know made herself a sheathe dress of chain by hand recently for a con.

The hardest part is watching you keep your pattern (typically 4 in 4).

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quatar wrote:

Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.

What feats etc does someone need to make it?

It's the hidden secret of ancient elven master armorers who don't share it with PC's who haven't spent several centuries proving themselves both worthy of the secret and trustworthy enough not to spread it around. In some worlds, elves will go to great lengths to recover or destroy such armor that has fallen into non-elven hands... along with the wearer.

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