Grappling a Grappler


Rules Questions


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Is there any way to grapple an opponent that is grappling an ally? Basically trying to prevent the grappler from slitting the ally's throat. Should I use something like disarm maybe?


I want to know this as well. I do know that you can't have multiple people all grappling at the same time.


1) Just because the opponent is grappling the ally does not mean he can just "slit his throat". He would have to 1) Successfully start the grapple. 2) Successfully maintain the grapple to pin. 3) Successfully maintain the pin to tie up. 4) Full-round coup de grace.

2) Yes, you can grapple someone who is grappling. You can have a bunch of people all grappling each other. If multiple characters are trying to grapple one creature, the secondary characters should make aid other actions, and the primary creature will make the grapple check.


If the ally is already helpless or tied up, a disarm maneuver would be the best way to remove the dagger from the equation. However, as previously stated, getting that said ally to the point where he could be coup de graced would be difficult. As to group grapples, aide another is how those should be resolved.


Ah, well what had happened in game was two medium ninja grappled a middle aged small master summoner who was strength poisoned and his small eilodon. The summoners strength was at 1 and dropping and he already had a summons out tanking. I wanted to interject and save the summoner, but as a sap ninja myself I would do little damage to the ninja grappling him so I wanted to grapple the ninja myself. DM and group said that I couldn't do that due to no rules on multiple grapples.

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Fastmover wrote:
Ah, well what had happened in game was two medium ninja grappled a middle aged small master summoner who was strength poisoned and his small eilodon. The summoners strength was at 1 and dropping and he already had a summons out tanking. I wanted to interject and save the summoner, but as a sap ninja myself I would do little damage to the ninja grappling him so I wanted to grapple the ninja myself. DM and group said that I couldn't do that due to no rules on multiple grapples.

From the PRD:

PRD / Grapple / Multiple Creatures wrote:
Multiple Creatures: Multiple creatures can attempt to grapple one target. The creature that first initiates the grapple is the only one that makes a check, with a +2 bonus for each creature that assists in the grapple (using the Aid Another action). Multiple creatures can also assist another creature in breaking free from a grapple, with each creature that assists (using the Aid Another action) granting a +2 bonus on the grappled creature's combat maneuver check.


Fastmover wrote:
Ah, well what had happened in game was two medium ninja grappled a middle aged small master summoner who was strength poisoned and his small eilodon. The summoners strength was at 1 and dropping and he already had a summons out tanking.

Don't forget that you can use escape artist to free yourself from a grapple. Very useful for low strength characters.


Fastmover wrote:
DM and group said that I couldn't do that due to no rules on multiple grapples.

As Ian pointed out, there are rules for multiple grapplers.

Second, not to be overly blunt, but the "no rules therefore you can't" is the lamest excuse any GM can use. That's the reason you can't in a video game. Table top RPGs don't have to suffer because of a lack of rules for every possible contingency. That's what a thinking rational GM is for.

I hate to sound like an old timer, but back when D&D (yeah white box D&D not Advanced, just plain old vanilla D&D) there weren't nearly as many rules as there are now. Don't get me wrong, having the rules is good, but all too often players that weren't brought up in that era forget sometimes you just have to make something up.

This has been a test of the emergency rant network, we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.


Fastmover wrote:
Ah, well what had happened in game was two medium ninja grappled a middle aged small master summoner who was strength poisoned and his small eilodon. The summoners strength was at 1 and dropping and he already had a summons out tanking. I wanted to interject and save the summoner, but as a sap ninja myself I would do little damage to the ninja grappling him so I wanted to grapple the ninja myself. DM and group said that I couldn't do that due to no rules on multiple grapples.

It doesn't matter, even if you grappled a ninja planning to CDG, being grappled would NOT prevent the CDG from happening.

Instead of attempting to break or reverse the grapple, you can take any action that doesn't require two hands to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack or full attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you.

Now which ninjas were armed? It matters since...

Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll.

So Lets say you were grappling the ninja (who was taking the -4 due to having a weapon in hand) while your friend was helpless. Ninja's turn comes around, he releases your friend from his grapple as a free action. You are still grappling the ninja.

Ninja provokes an AoO from you for performing a CDG {you take a –2 penalty on this AoO]. If he lives, he then slits your friends throat with the CDG.

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