Magic Jar Question


Rules Questions


So I have a few questions about the spell magic jar as in the current game I'm playing both I (Human Eldrich Godling (Sorc))and the Boggle Godling Eldrich godling (Wis) Have it and the Major ascendency Wrathful Spells.

Yes, its one of those types of questions, serious answers please.

So we are both level 13, just gained our 2nd major acendancy and I decide to pick up By Will Alone [/I, he's had it since 1st level.
He picks up [I]Wrathful spells
which I picked up at 1st level.

Its at this point that he discovers that the spell Magic Jar counts under the guidelines of the Wrathful spell Major Ascendency as a spell that can be made permanent via a curse.

[Q] By Will Alone (Su): Once per day, the godling can cast a spell without fulfilling any of its components. The spell requires no somatic, verbal, or material components. Even spells with expensive foci or material components can be cast without such materials by using this ability. The godling may select this ascendancy more than once. Each time it is selected, the godling may cast a spell with no components one additional time per day. [/Q]

[Q]Wrathful Spells (Su): You can invoke divine wrath to turn a spell into an affliction. Only spells with a duration of 1 round/caster level or more, that do not deal damage of any kind {Including HP, Bleed, Ability Drain, and ability Damage}, Require an attack roll or saving throw, and is not tagged as Harmless in its saving throw or spell resistance lines can be turned into wrathful spells. the spell cannot be the highest level of spells you can cast. The spell gains a duration of permanent, and is considered a curse (Gaining the curse descriptor). The spell cannot be dispelled with dispel magic but can be affected by spells that remove curses (Such as remove curse). You may use this ability once per day, +1/day at 15th level.[/Q]

We both Light up as our dreams of body jumping villainous heroes becomes a reality.

That all being said it opens us up to the vaguness of the Magic jar spell.

Now here are some confusing questions that is brought up by this situation.

We [myself and the boggle]have taken by will alone to mean that it creates the gem for us whenever we cast the spell using this ability and made into a wrathful spell the duration it lasts is permanent (unless we choose to go back to our own body/gem is destroyed/ we are hit by a remove curse.

Now the question is what happens when, while in the newly acquired body, you cast this spell again (Creating a new gem) if the original gem is out of range of the spell? Does the old body die or is it considered my original body for the purposes of going back to to end t he second spell or can I end the second casting of this spell by going back to my original body? (Thusly killing A and returning B to his body provided its in range.)

What are the definitions of natural and automatic abilities? Is a dragon's breathweapon a natural ability for example? Also could you be able to access the bodies Extraordinary and Supernatural abilities given enough time to practice? Also what happens when you gain a level in the body that is not your own? I assume you just add your HP increase to the body's total (using the bodies Constitution rather then your original body's own.)

Also is it possible to use magic jar to inhabit either an undead or even a corpse? We were toying with the idea of using shrouds of gentle repose on bodies we liked in order to have a fresh body to jump into at a moment's notice.

"Hrm, it seems that the local paladins killed me as the human necromancer of Corpselight Cave.... Hrm.. maybe its time for his necromancer bugbear second in command to take over.." -The godling muses inside the backup body he had stored in the crypt while eyeing the body of a bugbear he'd just slain.

xD

any responses will be helpful.


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Also the description says one creature, does this mean that the victum can be of any creature type? Could I, for example take over the body of a sucubus? (for hilarious effect) "Boobs....well thats new." xD


As long as they meet the following Requirments:

First they all have to be in range of each other
Second As long as the Jar is Full you can keep doing it.
Once a Jar is emptied it is destroyed.

So technically you can do this Cast magic Jar Shove Dragon in Jar take Dragons Body... Then return your body...

Cast Magic Jar Steal your friends body... return to your body or dragon Body.

Cast Gate Hurl Jars into 9th level of hell... Close Gate... They die.


Bump

And that is interesting Reecy, though I was wondering for the effects of say, I cast magic jar, steal a body, store my own body on a personally created demiplane, and then keep casting Magic jar when i find a new creature that I want to take there body. Obviously I'd store the magic jar away from its own body so that the souls could never reinhabit their own body and come after me but keep having the bodies stored to come back to if i need a specific body for a specific job.


Make sure you take hardy bodies. If the body you're inhabiting dies when you're not in range of the magic jar, you die... Though, in this case, you might be able to jump into any magic jar if it's in range.

You can't inhabit a corpse but undead work. Actually, when choosing which body to jump into, whether or not it's undead is one of the very few things you can tell about the potential host.

On that note, you should probably try to be alone with the person whose body you want to steal. Trying to take over the enemy barbarian and accidentally taking over your own cohort would be quite embarrassing.


xDDD Thats great Alexi, and that is actually a very good idea, so I might not be able to jump into an undead body but my own body never actually dies (so long as I get it food/water/temporal stasis.) and any body i want to save to jump into i guess i'll have to animate it as an undead, which if i use a skeletal champion/juju zombie shouldnt be that bad.

Though this does bring up the question of What is exactly an innate and automatic ability? Also if i gain a level in the body do I add my class HD + the body's con mod to the total? If I spend enough time in a body can I learn to use its ex and su abilities? Also do i keep my own feats/class abilities?


Normally magic jar doesn't last long enough to care about levels. I think that the spell has little to say and it is up to DM discretion at that point (same with abilities). If I were DMing i'd allow it though (judging by the power of the campaign with godlings and all.)


Thanks Jezai, I kinda thought that would have to be the case but I wasn't sure. I do very much appreciate people's opinions on the situation. :)


I have some comments:

1) Magic Jar By Will Alone: By Will Alone does not create components, but only lets you ignore them. I most cases this doesn't matter, as the components only affects the casting of the spell. Regarding Magic Jar, however, having no gem, would mean no place to store your and others souls, and as a result would make using the spell quite useless. The gem is not just used in casting the spell, but also necessary in utilizing the benefits of the spell. It is a minor point, as you could just stack up on gems beforehand.

2) Wrathful Magic Jar: I wouldn't let this fly. While Magic Jar does have a target line and a saving throw, this really doesn't fit the spell. Magic Jar as it works, is a personal spell, and there isn't any targets (other than you) or saving throw linked to casting the spell. As such I don't see it meeting the requirements of Wrathful Spells.

3) The abilities of the host-body: Per the rules you don't get acces to the abilities of the body you possess. I would be very careful in allowing it, since Magic Jar already is the single spell which have the biggest possibility for abuse.


Thanks for the input HaraldKlak!

I can definitely see your reasoning behind it as it might not be what is really intended by the ability. Obviously if this is going to fly its going to be by GM will alone.


I didn't have a lot of time, when I wrote the last post. Reading it again, I feel that it says no to the idea, more than I intended.

I think the idea of having a character who jumps from body to body is a great idea. Personally I think that it could be done without the gem, but requiring the caster to go into a trance (until he succesfully gets control of a new body).
However, not having a gem, would also increase the risk significantly, as your soul don't have a place to go if you get killed in your current body.


Actually i really like that and its something a dm would be more willing to accept as if its more dangerous for me there is the fear and i wont be so caviler about getting into fights because although i might gain some survivability with this im not immortal. the only bad thing is anyone who's body i want to take i'll end up killing as there spirit doesnt go anywhere and as the wording of the spell a spirit with no where to go is treated as slain.


Elias Darrowphayne wrote:
Actually i really like that and its something a dm would be more willing to accept as if its more dangerous for me there is the fear and i wont be so caviler about getting into fights because although i might gain some survivability with this im not immortal. the only bad thing is anyone who's body i want to take i'll end up killing as there spirit doesnt go anywhere and as the wording of the spell a spirit with no where to go is treated as slain.

¨

Another way of solving the problem with the other persons soul, is to say that the soul is supressed within. This gives the spell a more traditional possession feel, while letting the target resume control when you leave (like normal magic jar).

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