Qinggong monk and spell like ability ki powers


Rules Questions


Specifically this is about true strike but more in general it is about how the qinggong monk spell like abilities are used.

I have a player who has just gone fourth level and swapped out slow fall for True Strike spell like ability that costs one Ki point. I am fairly certain he is of the opinion that if he spends the ki point he can immediately apply the +20 bonus to the next attack. I believe that the Ki point simply allows him the ability to cast the spell, the casting taking up a standard action so the bonus would apply to the first attack in the following round.

So what I suppose I am asking is once the ki point is spent does the monk need to spend the casting time to get the spell off?


Qinggong monk- Ki spells wrote:
Spells: These ki powers duplicate the effects of a spell, and are spell-like abilities. A qinggong monk’s class level is the caster level for these spell-like abilities, and she uses Wisdom to determine her concentration check bonus.
PFSRD Spell-like Ability wrote:
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

So to sum up, as a Qinggong monk you burn a Ki point and spend a standard action Ooobie Doobieing a spell into existence. Similar to any other SLA granted to a class, such as the acid bolt granted to conjuration focused wizards.


Movin wrote:
Qinggong monk- Ki spells wrote:
Spells: These ki powers duplicate the effects of a spell, and are spell-like abilities. A qinggong monk’s class level is the caster level for these spell-like abilities, and she uses Wisdom to determine her concentration check bonus.
PFSRD Spell-like Ability wrote:
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

So to sum up, as a Qinggong monk you burn a Ki point and spend a standard action Ooobie Doobieing a spell into existence. Similar to any other SLA granted to a class, such as the acid bolt granted to conjuration focused wizards.

Yes this all makes sense but i tend to disagree that it is a standard action.

PFSRD Monk Ki Powers wrote:

Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels.

This says that using ki points is a free action. You can also use any of the feats as a free action. I know that it does not say what type of action it is but this is what i assume. Would be nice to get an official clarification on this as i will be starting a new AP with a zen archer that is planing on taking the Qinggong archtype down the road.


It is a standard action.
Here are the Qinggong rules for reference:

Feats: These ki powers duplicate the effects of specific feats. A monk does not need to qualify for a feat to select it as a ki power. For example, a qinggong monk can select Spring Attack as a ki power even if she doesn't meet the prerequisites for selecting Spring Attack as a feat. Activating one of these ki powers is a free action on the monk's turn; until the start of her next turn, the monk is treated as if she had that feat. Some of these ki powers that duplicate feats may also be activated as an immediate action; these powers are noted in the ki powers list.

Monk Abilities: Some ki powers are standard monk abilities. Even if a qinggong monk selects a different ki power in place of a standard monk ability, she can select that monk ability later as one of her ki powers.

Spells: These ki powers duplicate the effects of a spell, and are spell-like abilities. A qinggong monk's class level is the caster level for these spell-like abilities, and she uses Wisdom to determine her concentration check bonus.

Feats are free actions, Monk abilities are whatever the ability normally is, and Spells are spell-like abilities. Spell like abilities are always standard actions unless you have the Quicken Spell-like Ability Feat.
For reference:

Quicken Spell-Like Ability

This creature can use one of its spell-like abilities with next to no effort.

Prerequisite: Spell-like ability at CL 10th or higher.

Benefit: Choose one of the creature's spell-like abilities, subject to the restrictions described in this feat. The creature can use the chosen spell-like ability as a quickened spell-like ability three times per day (or less, if the ability is normally usable only once or twice per day).

Using a quickened spell-like ability is a swift action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. The creature can perform another action—including the use of another spell-like ability (but not another swift action)—in the same round that it uses a quickened spell-like ability. The creature may use only one quickened spell-like ability per round.

The creature can only select a spell-like ability duplicating a spell with a level less than or equal to 1/2 its caster level (round down) – 4. For a summary, see the table below.

A spell-like ability that duplicates a spell with a casting time greater than 1 full round cannot be quickened.

Normal: The use of a spell-like ability normally requires a standard action (at the very least) and provokes an attack of opportunity.

Special: This feat can be taken multiple times. Each time it is taken, the creature can apply it to a different one of its spell-like abilities.

This doesn't need an offical clarification because it is already clarified in the existing rules.


Yes, It's a standard action to active the Q monks spell-like abilities unless otherwise noted. Just because some of the monk abilities in the PHB are swift actions doesn't mean all of the monk abilities in every book is a swift action.

Feats are Free actions

Monk Abilities are just the way they are normally activated in the book

Spells are treated as spell like-abilities and are specifically noted with a symbol if they can be activated outside of a standard action.


Rob Dufek wrote:
PFSRD Spell-like Ability wrote:
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.
Yes this all makes sense but i tend to disagree that it is a standard action.

Do you disagree that casting a spell is standard action when speaking is a free action? That's effectively what you are trying to argue.

Rob Dufek wrote:
PFSRD Monk Ki Powers wrote:
Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A monk gains additional powers that consume points from his ki pool as he gains levels.
This says that using ki points is a free action. You can also use any of the feats as a free action. I know that it does not say what type of action it is but this is what i assume. Would be nice to get an official clarification on this as i will be starting a new AP with a zen archer that is planing on taking the Qinggong archtype down the road.

No, it says that using any of the ki powers listed under that heading is a swift action - getting +4 to your AC, gaining an extra attack, etc. That list does not include manifesting SLAs, so they are handled under the rules for SLAs which take a standard action unless something, somewhere, states otherwise, and it doesn't.


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Agreed, it is a standard action. Like mentioned Quicken spell-like ability is a good feat to use in combination though, it works only 3 times per day but an almost guaranteed hit ignoring concealment is probably worth it.

Not to say true strike is useless when not used as a swift action, it can be invaluable for a combat maneuver and can serve well in a surprise situation.


Remco Sommeling wrote:

Agreed, it is a standard action. Like mentioned Quicken spell-like ability is a good feat to use in combination though, it works only 3 times per day but an almost guaranteed hit ignoring concealment is probably worth it.

Not to say true strike is useless when not used as a swift action, it can be invaluable for a combat maneuver and can serve well in a surprise situation.

Hell yes! Ready True Strike, then use your speed to rush the foe in round one and land a stunning fist, and it's well worth it!


I'd use the True Strike for a combat maneuver, actually.

And yeah it's a standard, though WAAAAAY later on, he can take Quicken SLA feat to use it as a swift action 3/day.


I think taking Quicken Spell-like Ability would be pretty awesome for the Dragon's Breath Qinggong power too...

....punch punch punch punch punch FWOOOOOMMM

Edit: although you would need to be level 16 at least for that one, ah well. Maybe I should go with quickened scorching rays instead...


StreamOfTheSky wrote:

I'd use the True Strike for a combat maneuver, actually.

This is where it really shines. Activate true strike on the approach, and then smash the target with a combat maneuver on your next turn. It's particularly fun with the scaling combat maneuvers... bull rushing enemies 20 feet off walls and such.

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