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Hee hee. I get evil thoughts about this.
First, go your 50 miles to a town where his reach doesn't extend. Equip your party. If that is a trouble, suggest the GM just fast-forwards through the trip there. Make it clear that any dead characters, at this point, given the exotic setup, will equal leaving characters.
Then go back. Start adventuring. Absolutely refuse to pay anything to people who do not join the party, and only ever equal shares. If the monopolist would have been the mayor, that would have given him a reason for it in the form of taxes, but with this setup, he can't claim that right.
Level up just a little. If he is higher level than you, insist on encounters scaled for you, and suggest his character waits out combat. Then deny him shares since he did not participate. If he refuses this setup, or the GM throws tough things at you, let the monopolist tackle all of it himself. If he ever attacks or otherwise acts against you, scatter and insist on playing the survivors' leveling up to murder the evil monopolist. When he is sleeping, use charm person liberally. If there are expenses, demand that he pays, whatever it is. Attack him, or just leave, if he doesn't. If he ever becomes seriously wounded, offer to heal him... if he can just pay up a million gp. Preferably after the rogue stole all his healing potions. At this point, he either understands the problem and is ready to deal with it, meaning you can play with him, or he still doesn't, and deserves a coup de grace. Then return with his brutalized body to the monopoly town, and stake it up on the town square, making up songs about how his wicked ways are over, and what wonderful freedom the town now enjoys. Make his death a local holiday, and split the take from his enterprise among the exploited townspeople. Through the campaign, keep observing the holiday, as a warning to every new character the player makes.
Or, you know, let them have their retarded campaign.
First, go your 50 miles to a town where his reach doesn't extend. Equip your party. If that is a trouble, suggest the GM just fast-forwards through the trip there. Make it clear that any dead characters, at this point, given the exotic setup, will equal leaving characters.
Er, it's an island. He controls EVERYTHING.
Or, you know, let them have their retarded campaign.
Sounds a better plan.
Talk to the GM, if the GM doesn't immediately apologize and crush the PC mafia, then find another group that actually wants to play a cooperative fantasy adventure role playing game.
While I fully agree with Adamantine Dragon, in reality, unless someone in the group was a personal friend of mine, I wouldn't even talk to the GM. I just wouldn't come back. It wouldn't be worth it.
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No, it's really not. If entrenched economic exploitation isn't something you buy into, then you leave. That's the simple way to deal with not liking the particulars of a locale.For those advocating violence, I have to wonder if you would do the same if it was entirely NPCs that were making money off of the PCs. Would it matter what use they put the money to? Most paladins would actually support a system that taxes them heavily to then spend the money on community development and defense, and others might too. Not everyone can defend themselves the way PCs can, so set-ups like this may actually serve the common people quite well. For those that don't need it, just leave.
Absolutely. He's pretty clearly not charging everyone 10x the listed price, just these particular characters, so that (like everyone else in town) he can place them under his economic power, putting them in his debt and keeping them there. Or, to put it more bluntly, so he can own them. Much like mine owners often did in the early 20th century. Owning people is not the sign of a benevolent economic system.
Like I said, I've seen this movie, it's usually a Western, and it ends in murder. If Good-aligned, you try reasoning with the guy first, but if that doesn't work (which seems the likely result) you free the people from his tyrrany with violence.
And any system where the purpose of the economic arrangement isn't to actually provide for anything, just to keep a particular person in power, if pretty much definitionally wrong and an abuse of authority that any Paladin would oppose if possible. And on this scale it's eminently possible.
Owning a town, and charging reasonable prices for the things therein, is a very different thing from owning a town and using that economic power to force people to do things for you on unfair and exploitative terms. The second is clearly what's going on here, and wrong on a number of levels.
Oh, the point is that it is an endurance test for the GM. Start making rafts, or swim. Do whatever you have to to get away. Stealing boats is good. For as long as the GM wants to. Roll the dice you need. Repeatedly. Starve to death if you have to... Just never surrender a single gp. Suggest that you fast forward through the slog every now and then. Have your characters dig in the ground for worms if you have to, and be clear that every such meal is added to what the monopolist owes you for. Be as unreasonable as you can imagine a person could be, and be consistent.
You can do it. :-)
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I always get perplexed when gamers approach a problem like this as with in game responses like "take some crafting feats and set up a competing trading system..."
Look, first of all, I don't want to take feats to combat other PCs, either violently or through manipulating imaginary markets.
Second, if the GM is favoring some PCs over others, the problem has nothing to do with the in game economy. There's a much more critical dynamic at work here, and it's entirely outside of the game system.
Finally, I don't play Pathfinder to become a trader or merchant. Perhaps some people do, but if I wanted to do that, I'd play Monopoly.
Talk to the GM, if the GM doesn't immediately apologize and crush the PC mafia, then find another group that actually wants to play a cooperative fantasy adventure role playing game.
I agree that getting the GM involved is the only way to resolve this situation. If everything in town became unaffordable, I think you'd see quite a few people resorting to theft AND/OR you'd see competing merchants starting to enter because they would be able to easily undercut the inflated prices that the d--khead PC is charging. The GM should also factor in that businesses always have costs (paying employees, maintenance, etc), but don't always have profits (selling goods and services). Once the competition moves in, the PC who owns the shops will have to drop his prices to normal levels or simply start losing money as everyone in town goes elsewhere.
If the d--khead PC tries to prevent the merchants from coming in and competing with him, he should find those merchants have hired some extremely well-trained guards (they could even reach out to the new PCs for guard duty), not to mention that this would be an unlawful and evil action on the PC's part. Roleplay from there...
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1. It’s called being a Jerk. Talk to the GM and the player. Explain that D&D is a game, and a game is supposed to be fun for everyone, and you are not having fun. This needs to be solved OOC, not IC.
2. It also means the DM is having trouble with the concept of WBL.
3. If this doesn’t work- Move on to the next town.
4. If all of the above fails, follow Lord Fryes advice.
Pfft, realism? Okay, murder him and take his stuff. It's called robbery. Now, strong arm the village into installing you as the ruler and when his character returns, kill him again and say, "I own this island, I do whatever I want". Maybe he and the GM will stop acting like asses and play a legitimate game.
I would not play in this homegame. Before, I left I would infact try to burn the guys warehouse down or steal his money, giving it away. I would talk to the GM about the plans, charm person is also a good idea. If the GM doesnt pay any attention to these plans I would never come back.
I agree with Raving Dork and LazarX. Have a talk with the players and GM. If the troublemaker/s won't realize what games are for, get out of there. See if any of the other victims would like to join you.
Travel to a new city, take the 2 days of travel and just wait until you can get your hands on weapons and bombs and blow the **** out of all of the inns and stores that the player owns. It should be easy to find other characters in the campaign's world that have lost everything due to the tyranny of the player in question so you may even be able to raise up a small group of "freedom fighters" at which point you can fight back
You may be seen as evil and defiantly chaotic. Just make sure the player that is trying to extort the you and the new people is left with no businesses, and if anyone stands in your way knock them out, tie them up and leave them in the buildings as they are blown up (or burned if you prefer).
~Aod43254
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I'm going to go with Raving Dork on this one. This is not a salvageable situation in game. It's probably not even a salvageable group dynamic. Most of the solutions here are guaranteed to throw gasoline on the fire, not lead to a better experience for anyone.
I actually find revenge personally satisfying, but then, I did mention being vindictive...
And I don't necessarily agree that leaving the game is the best option. It depends on whether the GM is actually showing favoritism or really means the realism thing, which murdering the PC entrepeneur is a good check for. If he's just into realism, and thus felt there was nothing he could do, you probably just need to either teach that particular player that such behavior won't be tolerated or get rid of that one guy, while the rest of the group might be salvageable.
I mean, I've played in more than one game where the group was pretty good except for this one guy. And as long as said guy isn't the GM, it can work out. Of course, if this is just favoritism then there are at least two and one of 'those guys' is the GM...at which point it's probably not salvageable.
OP - is this a real game or a hypothetical situation? If it is the real deal, who are the new players? Are you all friends, or is this a bunch of strangers playing together for the first time?
If we're talking strangers, then the simple answer is to move on.
I think I would leave that game unless the GM told me before the next session, "I trust that you are on board to help me teach this jerk of a player a lesson. By now you understand what those disgruntled NPCs who will approach you next week are talking about, right?"
Sorry, imo this is NOT a 'talk to the GM' problem: the GM is part of the problem, letting half the party shaft the other half.
Just walk.
Sure it is. I'd want to know what the heck is going on. Maybe it's a set uo for the game or something. Sure it doesnt look good, but I'd give him a chance to explain.
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If somebody complains this is unfair they are told....
.(DM): "This is how the real world works and (you PCs) are being unreasonable in expecting equal treatment."
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Player:
"You're right. This is how the real world works and in the real world I can choose not to play in your SH!T-ASS game. You three have fun; I'm leaving to play in a better game."
sounds like they just dont want you to play with them.
they probably find your frustration entertaining.
if you sense this, fek'em. find another game.
if this is not the case and you talk to the gm on the side and he is willing to allow you to play with equal lack of scruples then actively work to bring down the players empire. essentially what the GM will be doing is creating a two sided adventure in which your the robin hood style liberator and the other player is just an ass.
I would do as I wrote above, I think. Playing a new group of gnome druid triplets riding on bears, spending their time singing campfire songs is a less violent alternative. Just sing your songs, and tell the GM that since you can't find affordable equipment, you can't go on adventures. Then demand equal screen time for each player. Before long, the GM is going to either blow a fuse or buckle - either way you have good ammunition for the inevitable talk about how one person can ruin for others. The hope is that the GM will learn and keep playing. We need all the people we can get playing.
keep up with the raw, especially on economics. Organize the exploited workers in formal or informal unions. Use sabotage, strikes and riots to destroy his economy. Organize the enforcers he have - either he keeps them under threat and can be organized or he pays them well, and as part of the burgoise should be seen as enemies - but as you destroy the economy make sure he can't keep paying them. Make it a living hell to be a strike breaker or enforcer - kill them in their sleep, threaten their families and so on.
That is supposing the DM actually want an organic game like it says. If its just an excuse to screw you as _players_ over, just leave.
Oh, and i could see a legitimate, meaningful game with this setup - but it requires that everyone actually wants to play it. Essentially, its a game with two opposing parties where one plays the bbegs and the others the revolutionaries.
Perfect game for the anarchist paladin ive just created.
If the PC owns every equipment shop in 50 miles (which is fairly unreasonable, btw as full complete monopolies are almost impossible in real world, unless you are the goverment, and it seems it's not the case), the other PC only need to move 51 miles, buy gear, and came back.
Yes, it might be real world, please remind said player about such real world solutions to such exploitive behavior as the French Revolution and Russian Revolution, you know when one class felt they were being exploited by another. I recall it didn't end to well for King Louis or Tsar Nicholas. But hey these players want real world.
New plot: New players find themselves and an entire town being exploited by a self-proclaimed financial ruler who extorts money from the poor to give wealth and power to his friends. The new players must struggle to end his tyrannical rule. Get the torches and pitchforks!
Actually, it's not really that much real world. Unless the PC is the governor of the place, and impose laws that forbid entrepeneurship (I can't spell that well :( English is not my mother language :( ), or it's some kind of mafia gang that completelly impose fear over people, it's impossible that EVERY single shop is owned by him, specially with 10x prices. It only needs half a brain to discover that you can open a shop in such place, offer 2x prices, and become rich in a matter of seconds.
The PC in question can also fall back to charity. If there's a church in the town, they can go there and maybe offer a couple of days working and helping and get a few basic items (like cloths). They can also buy basic gear from a local, even if the local is not a shop, for much less than the "real world shops that do not face real world market laws". If the shop offer him a sword for 10x the price, the players can go and ask every neighbour. It's not impossible that some of them have an old sword from their days in the army, or maybe a hatchet or axe to cut wood. They can have some bow to hunt, and they surely have knives and daggers. The PC can offer a fair price for that, or even 2x the price. Anything short of 10x price and 100% interest rate, is easy to achieve, unless every citizen in the town is threatened to death or jail if they don't follow the "entrepeneur" PC dictates.
If the PC owns every equipment shop in 50 miles (which is fairly unreasonable, btw as full complete monopolies are almost impossible in real world, unless you are the goverment, and it seems it's not the case), the other PC only need to move 51 miles, buy gear, and came back.
Read the first post. It's an island. He owns every business on the island. They have been shipwrecked. They cannot leave.
Read the first post. It's an island. He owns every business on the island. They have been shipwrecked. They cannot leave.
Dabbler, I went back and re-read the first post and didn't see anything about an island. That the new characters were shipwrecked, yes, but nothing about an island.
Er ... could have sworn it did, which is why the PCs are in such a bind. My bad if it isn't, but it does explain why they can't just walk away.
I am curious about the adventuring company and that it is owned. Is there need of a charter for each adventuring company and those fees, which would stop the new PCs from doing so? If not, why are they adventuring with the old PCs?
Like others, I am wondering why they don't go to another area and buy gear at a reasonable price?
Any reason why they couldn't use simple weapons, like a staff or club until they get anough loot to buy some better gear, assuming that the loot didn't provide them with the required gear?
What are the classes of the old PCs and that of the new PCs?
If the PC owns every equipment shop in 50 miles (which is fairly unreasonable, btw as full complete monopolies are almost impossible in real world, unless you are the goverment, and it seems it's not the case), the other PC only need to move 51 miles, buy gear, and came back.Read the first post. It's an island. He owns every business on the island. They have been shipwrecked. They cannot leave.
It is not, it does not say so. Thy shipwrecked, but you can shipwreck in a continent too.
Furthermore, the fact he owns everything "in 50 miles" implies there are things beyond those 50 miles, even if it is an island. Otherwise, it would be he "owns everything", not "in 50 miles".
Don't have time to read all the responses, so I apologize if I restate anything said already.
Real world-wise, it usually takes years to start gaining pure profits from investments in a single business, much less an entire town. Monopolizing and surging your prices will also result in no one buying the products, as well as introduce competition that will charge more than the regular amount (due to difficulty in getting the product, if someone else owns the local means to them) but much lower than the monopolizer (as opposed to 10x, maybe 3-4x).
Game-wise, there's no getting around it: they're being a dick. You can talk to them, of course. If it works, awesome. If not, and you can't just go and find a new game, then leave the region. Go to other areas where the monopolizer doesn't have any roots in. The GM will have to basically play two parties that have nothing to do with each other. The newer group who want to just play a game, and the older group who want to express their internal desires to oppress.
Sorry but your orignal three players sound like jerks. Screwing over new players and using in game reasons to do so is still being a jerk to new players.
Why are they trying to destroy the game like that by alienating new players? And why are the NPC's allowing this? In 'real life' people would leave the area for more reasonable economic regions rather than have their cost of living raised by a factor of 10.
Lastly, real life sucks. That is why we play heroic RPG's for relaxation.
If yoru the ref, shame on you for being complicit in such crap. If your not the ref, then I think you may need to talk to the ref out of game or find a new group. This one sounds full of jerk.
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PCs don't control npcs.
The lord of the land should be overthrowing this brigand, how was this property even for sale? No one is going to want a middle man stealing the rightful taxes of the nobility. Especially if there was no problem to begin with.
The pcs are exploiting ooc knowledge or the town would be dirt poor. Npcs should be providing charity bypassing needing to purchase anything. Also don't play in an evil campaign unless you are on board with everything. I guess the new pc should have a craft or prof skill he can use to get a job. It Is slavery either way with the only viable solution being one or more characters die.(if it is an island) or players leaving the area.
Um... this is an out of game issue of a GM enabling a couple of his best buddies to have a "company store" scam over the rest of the group.
Solutions?
No easy ones. The two people with the most leverage at a gaming table are the host and the GM. Since the GM seems to be in on the scam that leaves the host. Try to get the host on your side.
If this happened to me... I would try to gain the support of most of the players. Then tell the GM we don't wish to play that game anymore. His game is then over by default. I take over as GM and the group has a new rule banning that player from ever GMing again. I would leave revenge against the scammer players up to the new characters... perhaps they set up their own treasure division rules that exclude the old scammers... or perhaps they live and let live, that is up to them.
Um... this is an out of game issue of a GM enabling a couple of his best buddies to have a "company store" scam over the rest of the group.
Solutions?
Don't play.
Either don't play their game in the game, or don't play, period.
The solution to this issue is rather simple. I have ran a campaign like this before, it was fairly interesting.
I had one of the players be a bad guy of a higher level and with minion NPCs, with strict resources he could devote to an encounter (such as no more then a total CR of 10 for first level party), I worked closely with this player and made a very fun bad guy for the party to fight.
OK let me clarify a bit, the bad guy in this scenario was a DM in training so yes, he was a co-dm, I just stepped in where necessary and made sure the party was able to uncover plots, get what they needed, etc.
In this case you may want to do something like this, where the town is being strangled by an mobster, and the ship wrecked party chooses to, or is forced into helping the town.
When this happened in my group, I as the healer stopped healing the entrepreneur until he paid me for each and every spell that I cast in his benefit. I even took selective channeling to exclude him from the healing, as well as the enemies. His character eventually spent more cash on healing potions, restoration scrolls, and other things that the gold flow eventually turned in my favor.
He was also on point because our fighter decided that it wasn't fair for him to adventure without a danger premium. By his logic, every step he took in front of the group in a dungeon was a step closer to his death as he would be the first person hit.
The rogue started keeping the treasure and hidden items that he specifically found, as salvage rights belong to the person who finds it.
The game ran like this for about 4 sessions until the entrepreneur's character died. Not my fault that he didn't want to pay for restoration, heals, and buffs. When he died we started acting like a cohesive group.
give us death details! And details of the town party after he died
is that PC now a new shipwrecked survivor?