So, my friend is joining my Pathfinder campaign, and he told me to brew him up a character...any character that seemed weird or funny. I decided on a White haired Witch. However, I'm really not sure how to go about it. Could I have some suggestions on spells, feats, what familiar and patron and the like? It'd be really appreciated.
OK...then what do you recommend for the character build? I still want to keep him as a witch. I'm working on the stats with a 25 point buy, but I need some help.
DM wants us to keep races inside the core rule book, and any races that have been released by paizo.
What from the core rule book makes a decent witch, in case DM gives me an issue about these?
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You could do a hex magus with the prehensitle hair hex, and then have some crazy secondary mustache attacks.
I did think about making him a hex magus, but I'm not really a fan of the magus...dunno why. I just don't like it. Hmm...that does make sense with the human. If I can't use a Ratfolk or Changling, he'll be a human. Primaray stat is int, then con, followed by dex, right? Str and wis are dumps, and cha is not really needed, but enjoyed.
That makes sense. What do you think the stats would look like for a good witch? And what about some good hexes and feats for a witch? Which witch archetype would be best?
forum ate my very long post :(
use elf or human
int>dex>=con
slumber, cackle+evil eye (or just about anything else)
extra hex, toughness, improved initiative
none or beastbonded (very complicated) or hedge witches (if you got no cleric and don't mind being the healbot).
Edit: Irish Viking made a quite good guide about witches, try if you can find it trough search function.
forum ate my very long post :(
use elf or human
int>dex>=con
slumber, cackle+evil eye (or just about anything else)
extra hex, toughness, improved initiative
none or beastbonded (very complicated) or hedge witches (if you got no cleric and don't mind being the healbot).Edit: Irish Viking made a quite good guide about witches, try if you can find it trough search function.
I think you missed the part where he is making a white-hair witch.. meaning no hexes!
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I think you missed the part where he is making a white-hair witch.. meaning no hexes!forum ate my very long post :(
use elf or human
int>dex>=con
slumber, cackle+evil eye (or just about anything else)
extra hex, toughness, improved initiative
none or beastbonded (very complicated) or hedge witches (if you got no cleric and don't mind being the healbot).Edit: Irish Viking made a quite good guide about witches, try if you can find it trough search function.
The OP indicated upthread that he is flexible on doing a more generic witch with prehensile hair hex instead.
How about prehensital hair hex on a frost witch, then add the hex to get extra ice damage on your touch spells.
To bad a gnome is cha for his SLAs, a Haunted fey aspect gnome with some sort of burrowing familiar could be fun, and get a chainsaw glaive!
A mustache magus could be fun since you could use your prehenstile hair with spell combat, and spell strike at 10'.
Or maybe a white haired witch 2/barbarian brutal pugilist x... the familiar will be beefy (as bab and hp are off of CL) and you get constrict and grab and can enter the final enbrace feat train. You'd end up with 19 bab. I'd get a crab for the extra grappling, and maybe even a Unarmed fighter level for Improved unarmed strike, maybe snappling turtle style or improved grapple.
If familiar bonus' stack, go tattoo sorc for a crab tattoo famliar and a free tattoo feat, which comes with a 3/day SLA, or maybe 3 levels of alchemist for some vivisection or bombs, since you want int, and you'd get that to thrown items, and then a tumor familair, crab also.
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The prehensile hair hex is much better than the animated hair gained by the white hair witch. I would avoid it. You would not miss out, even on flavor.
I disagree strongly with this. The animated hair gained by white-haired witch gives you grapple and constrict damage as you level! What people usually complain about is that you lose your hexes, which is the meat and potatoes of the witch, and I agree with that.
So, how do you make a useful white-haired witch? Multiclass! I wrote up a leveling scheme for a really fun white-haired witch based character that takes a few levels of magus and one of Maneuver Master monk to make the most of her white-haired goodness:
Lvl 1: Magus (Hexcrafter) 1, Feats: Extra Hex (evil eye), Weapon Finesse
Lvl 2: Magus 2
Lvl 3: Magus 3, Feat: Extra Hex (prehensile hair), Arcana: Familiar (king crab, +2 grapple) <-- This allows the magus levels to stack with witch for familiar abilities
Lvl 4: Monk (Maneuver Master) 1, Bonus Feat: Improved Grapple <-- This gives the witch an extra grapple attempt with her hair each round eventually.
Lvl 5: Witch (White-haired) 1, Feat: Weapon focus (hair), Patron: elements
Lvl 6: Witch 2, white hair gains constrict
Lvl 7: Witch 3, Feat: Feral Combat Training (white hair)
Lvl 8: Witch 4, white hair gains 10ft reach, trip
Lvl 9: Witch 5, Feat: Intensify spell
Lvl 10: Witch 6, white hair gains pull
Lvl 11: Witch 7, Feat: Hex strike
Lvl 12: Witch 8, white hair gains 15ft reach, strangle
Lvl 13: Witch 9, Feat: Greater Grapple
Lvl 14: Witch 10, Rogue talent (Defensive Combat Training)
Lvl 15: Witch 11, Feat: Extra Arcana (Arcane accuracy)
....
Ok so let's look at level 15 here. The witch/magus/monk can normally make two attacks in a round, plus the two attacks she gets from her hair's two natural attacks, one primary and one secondary. From 20ft away, she can use her flurry of maneuvers ability to attempt a grapple on an enemy. If she fails that first grapple, she can then make an attack with the hair, hopefully dealing damage and then initiating another free grapple attempt. She can also choose to use a swift action to add her evil eye hex to the attack with her hair using Hex Strike, since the hair is treated as an unarmed strike thanks to Feral Combat Training.
If she is able to grapple, she pulls her opponent into a square adjacent to her as per the rules for grappling, then proceeds to use her two weapon attacks. In the next round, she can use spell combat, casting defensively to cast a shocking grasp (using her witch caster level) or similar touch-spell and deliver it automatically with her hair (since when you cast a spell with range touch you discharge it anytime you touch anyone. She can then proceed to take her secondary hair attack and her two weapon attacks.
On top of all these things, she also has the Arcane accuracy magus arcana, so during any given round she can use a swift action to spend an arcane point (she has points equal to 1 + her Int mod, which would be very high) to add her Int modifier to all her attack rolls (including CMB attempts) until the end of her turn.
Tell me this character wouldn't be a beast!
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If done, would the hair abilities stack?
Since the prehensile hair is a seperate, secondary attack, no the abilities wouldn't stack. She would have her "white hair" attack based on her white-haired witch levels, and her secondary hair attack using prehensile hair. The primary attack would add her full Int to damage, the secondary one only half.
The cool part here though is being able to cast using spellstrike and auto-deliver the spells through her grappling hair, since she doesn't gain the grappled condition when she's grappling using that hair.
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I have a Winter Witch with Frozen Caress and Prehensile Hair. If you take Magical Lineage (Frostbite) and take Rime Spell, you can smack someone with your hair and damage them, fatigue them, and entangle them. At higher levels, rinse and repeat. It's pretty fun.
Note that you get your Int mod and full BaB to hit, as well as 1.5x your Str Mod for damage with attacks with your hair (even though it's a secondary attack).
At high level I'm going to get quicken spell. Hit someone with a quickened Ill Omen and then whatever Fort or Will Save you want to hit them with. Done and done.
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Note that you get your Int mod and full BaB to hit, as well as 1.5x your Str Mod for damage with attacks with your hair (even though it's a secondary attack).
Is this because you're using it as your only attack? I don't think that works since you can also use manufactured weapons. I mean, you're right about the full BAB if you don't attack with your manufactured weapons, but I don't think the 1.5x Str(Int) damage would count in the case of a PC. Am I wrong on that one?
I like the Magus/Witch build above... Only issue is that you can't take Extra Hex until 3 as that's when they get their first hex.
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I like the Magus/Witch build above... Only issue is that you can't take Extra Hex until 3 as that's when they get their first hex.
OOH, you caught me on that one, good job. I forgot about that. Ok so move the Evil Eye hex up to 3rd level as a Magus Arcana, drop the stacking familiar ability and add... Improved Initiative? Not sure... I'll think about what other feat I could add in at 1st level. Or I could choose a race other than human instead. Thanks for catching that!
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Wait, could the hair be combined with feral combat training?
Why not? Feral Combat Training just states you need to use a natural attack. Your hair is a natural attack.
Feral Combat Training:
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Weapon Focus with selected natural weapon.
Benefit: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.
Special: If you are a monk, you can use the selected natural weapon with your flurry of blows class feature.
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How would the hair interact with AoMF?
Same as any other natural attack, AoMF would give +1 to attack, damage and CMB. Since she would have two different hair attacks, the AoMF would apply to each one separately.
The way I think about it is the primary attack is her actual hair, and the secondary attack is her eyebrows (since it says specifically in the prehensile hair description that it could be eyebrows or beard).
Is this because you're using it as your only attack? I don't think that works since you can also use manufactured weapons. I mean, you're right about the full BAB if you don't attack with your manufactured weapons, but I don't think the 1.5x Str(Int) damage would count in the case of a PC. Am I wrong on that one?
Note that you get your Int mod and full BaB to hit, as well as 1.5x your Str Mod for damage with attacks with your hair (even though it's a secondary attack).
It's too hard to link it because I'm on my phone not my comp, but if you look up natural attacks and secondary attacks in the SRD it says that you get full BaB and 1.5 Str mod to damage when you have only one natural weapon. I'm posting as my WW character in case anyone wants to see the build.
i love the idea of hair as a weapon. dotting for perusal later
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Well, I don't think it's really a matter of whether or not the archetype or hex is better: It's more about what you want to do with it.
I can see a White-Haired witch being a really unique, flavorful crowd controller. Your hair can grapple/trip/constrict/strangle a single enemy target (with 15' reach as a melee attack at level 8), which is an area you threaten. With Combat Reflexes you'll be throwing out trips and grapples all over the place, and with a decent dexterity score, you'll be even better. You could actually take 4-6 levels of Tetori Monk (after 8 levels of Witch for all the perks), a level of (insert martial proficiency class here), and the remaining levels in Eldritch Knight in order to further boost your grappling capabilities while allowing you to cast spells while maintaining your grapples.
In my mind, that's what you play a White-Haired Witch for. Prehensile hair is nice for... while, flavor, and a little bit of utility.
White haired witch, and have her take improved natural attack a few times to up the damage of that hair. Not sure if the hex would allow you to up the damage with that feat or not sense you do not have it as a natural attack all the time.
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Well, I don't think it's really a matter of whether or not the archetype or hex is better: It's more about what you want to do with it.
I can see a White-Haired witch being a really unique, flavorful crowd controller. Your hair can grapple/trip/constrict/strangle a single enemy target (with 15' reach as a melee attack at level 8), which is an area you threaten. With Combat Reflexes you'll be throwing out trips and grapples all over the place, and with a decent dexterity score, you'll be even better. You could actually take 4-6 levels of Tetori Monk (after 8 levels of Witch for all the perks), a level of (insert martial proficiency class here), and the remaining levels in Eldritch Knight in order to further boost your grappling capabilities while allowing you to cast spells while maintaining your grapples.
In my mind, that's what you play a White-Haired Witch for. Prehensile hair is nice for... while, flavor, and a little bit of utility.
Combat Reflexes! The perfect other 1st-level spell for my build! :)
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Well, I don't think it's really a matter of whether or not the archetype or hex is better: It's more about what you want to do with it.
I can see a White-Haired witch being a really unique, flavorful crowd controller. Your hair can grapple/trip/constrict/strangle a single enemy target (with 15' reach as a melee attack at level 8), which is an area you threaten. With Combat Reflexes you'll be throwing out trips and grapples all over the place, and with a decent dexterity score, you'll be even better. You could actually take 4-6 levels of Tetori Monk (after 8 levels of Witch for all the perks), a level of (insert martial proficiency class here), and the remaining levels in Eldritch Knight in order to further boost your grappling capabilities while allowing you to cast spells while maintaining your grapples.
In my mind, that's what you play a White-Haired Witch for. Prehensile hair is nice for... while, flavor, and a little bit of utility.
Nope, won't work that way.
There is an existing errata (in the Dragon Empires thread) that changes all the abilities of the White Haired with from Free actions to swift actions. ie; you get 1 of those actions per round at the suckiest Bab in the game.
Also, playing an arcane caster who is trying to specialize in melee combat is just REALLY stupid since grappling someone automatically moves your target adjacent to you and doesn't stop them from full attacking your armor-less, low HP body.
This is a dip class for a martial character and should have been a monk archetype not a witch one.
Honestly, giving up your at-will at-range hexes for a once per round melee attack at a Bab that will rarely connect and can't be maintained?
Trust me, this archetype is a trap and is really unplayable as it is.
the actual Hex is better (it's prehensile and can use a rod/wand/scroll while leaving your hands free and can be used to climb. This power is JUST a melee attack weapon which a witch should NEVER try to use)
edit: Also you can only take improved natural attack once per nat weapon so the best you can get is 1D6 (1D8 if you enlarge yourself)
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I like the Magus/Witch build above... Only issue is that you can't take Extra Hex until 3 as that's when they get their first hex.OOH, you caught me on that one, good job. I forgot about that. Ok so move the Evil Eye hex up to 3rd level as a Magus Arcana, drop the stacking familiar ability and add... Improved Initiative? Not sure... I'll think about what other feat I could add in at 1st level. Or I could choose a race other than human instead. Thanks for catching that!
Actually they can't take it until 4th level.
They don't get the hex ability till 4th (they get an arcana at 3rd but hexes have to wait till 4th but they do get a free hex at 4th though)Also as posted here
White haired witch update
On page 23 of the Dragon Empires Gazetteer, in the White-Haired Witch archetype, in the Constrict, Trip, and Pull paragraphs, change "free action" to "swift action".
makes mixing this archetype with a Magus Build a REALLY bad thing. This'll keep you from ever using your arcane pool to buff your weapons/spells or using quickened spells.
Really the only use for this archetype is for a beast totem barbarian or natural weapon range and then it's just as a 1 level dip for the extra natural attack and the single first level arcane spell they'd want (probably true strike).
I find it great that it was errata'd because some people complained that it was overpowered. I always thought that it was a free action to use all those combat abilities so that you could get lucky and maybe land one of them.
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Wow. That errata makes me so sad :(
@Mathwei - I never suggested playing the Archetype up to 20th level. I can't even begin to fathom how frustrating that would be. That's why I mentioned Multiclassing into classes that improve your BAB and maneuvers after your final big improvement to White Hair (8th level). The reason I suggested Tetori is for the full-round Pin, but also because the ability to maintain a grapple as a move action means you can still cast spells while maintaining a pin. If you don't want to go the Tetori route (instead using all of your feats dedicated to improving your grapple ability), you can take a level of a Martial Class at 9th, then ride Eldritch Knight all the way to 19 to improve your BAB (and, subsequently, CMB/CMD) and Spellcasting without really losing any spells (which is your primary class feature).
Now, is this build optimal? HECK NO. In fact, devoting all your caster resources towards melee attacking is probably a bad idea. However, it's fun, and could potentially be effective. Plus, if you don't like it, you can just cast spells. You'll be really good at those anyways. :P
*Edit: Also, the Strength Patron would work nicely if you were planning on trying out this build.
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I like the Magus/Witch build above... Only issue is that you can't take Extra Hex until 3 as that's when they get their first hex.OOH, you caught me on that one, good job. I forgot about that. Ok so move the Evil Eye hex up to 3rd level as a Magus Arcana, drop the stacking familiar ability and add... Improved Initiative? Not sure... I'll think about what other feat I could add in at 1st level. Or I could choose a race other than human instead. Thanks for catching that!Actually they can't take it until 4th level.
They don't get the hex ability till 4th (they get an arcana at 3rd but hexes have to wait till 4th but they do get a free hex at 4th though)Also as posted here
White haired witch update
On page 23 of the Dragon Empires Gazetteer, in the White-Haired Witch archetype, in the Constrict, Trip, and Pull paragraphs, change "free action" to "swift action".makes mixing this archetype with a Magus Build a REALLY bad thing. This'll keep you from ever using your arcane pool to buff your weapons/spells or using quickened spells.
Really the only use for this archetype is for a beast totem barbarian or natural weapon range and then it's just as a 1 level dip for the extra natural attack and the single first level arcane spell they'd want (probably true strike).
Since I have the witch choosing a hex at 3rd level for her magus arcana (which you can do as it states that you can take a hex in place of any arcana), then she would qualify for extra hex at that level also.
As Davor said, this is not in any way an optimized build, but it would be SO MUCH FUN, and I think you could make it effective enough to keep around. A level or two of Fighter would go a long way toward that, thanks to bonus feats (possibly taking Arcane Armor Training to get some armor without sacrificing spells) and BAB. More levels of Magus could also be useful if you want to go that route.
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Wow. That errata makes me so sad :(
@Mathwei - I never suggested playing the Archetype up to 20th level. I can't even begin to fathom how frustrating that would be. That's why I mentioned Multiclassing into classes that improve your BAB and maneuvers after your final big improvement to White Hair (8th level). The reason I suggested Tetori is for the full-round Pin, but also because the ability to maintain a grapple as a move action means you can still cast spells while maintaining a pin. If you don't want to go the Tetori route (instead using all of your feats dedicated to improving your grapple ability), you can take a level of a Martial Class at 9th, then ride Eldritch Knight all the way to 19 to improve your BAB (and, subsequently, CMB/CMD) and Spellcasting without really losing any spells (which is your primary class feature).
Now, is this build optimal? HECK NO. In fact, devoting all your caster resources towards melee attacking is probably a bad idea. However, it's fun, and could potentially be effective. Plus, if you don't like it, you can just cast spells. You'll be really good at those anyways. :P
*Edit: Also, the Strength Patron would work nicely if you were planning on trying out this build.
Strength patron would actually not make a lot of sense since you use Int as Str for the hair attacks and grapples and such...
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Well, there's that, but the Strength Patron actually provides a lot of spells that either:
A) Give you Static bonuses to attack and damage (which I believe apply to CMB)
or
B) Provide you with extra attacks (Divine Power), which allow for further grapple opportunities.
In fact, I just checked, and all those juicy bonuses do, indeed, apply to your CMB.