paizo.com Recent Posts in Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?paizo.com Recent Posts in Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?2012-03-28T17:52:38Z2012-03-28T17:52:38ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Tagionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#392012-03-29T16:28:43Z2012-03-29T16:28:43Z<p>I dont understand why OOC healing via cure light wounds wand is more acceptable then glorious heat and spark.</p>
<p>I think its because the perception is that one costs you gold for the healing and the other is "free" healing. Try to keep this in mind though , gold is a lot easier to come by the feats are.</p>
<p>Edit - One more thing. To heal for as much as a cure light wounds wand can with the glorious heat feat you have to be level 18.....</p>I dont understand why OOC healing via cure light wounds wand is more acceptable then glorious heat and spark.
I think its because the perception is that one costs you gold for the healing and the other is "free" healing. Try to keep this in mind though , gold is a lot easier to come by the feats are.
Edit - One more thing. To heal for as much as a cure light wounds wand can with the glorious heat feat you have to be level 18.....Tagion2012-03-29T16:28:43ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?WRoyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#382012-03-29T15:50:15Z2012-03-29T15:50:15Z<p>The OP's method wouldn't work in any case. Healing Grace only heals 1 hp on a living target that has been affected by one of your spells, not targetted by one of your spells. The ray from <i>disrupt undead</i> may be shot at any creature, but it only affects undead.</p>The OP's method wouldn't work in any case. Healing Grace only heals 1 hp on a living target that has been affected by one of your spells, not targetted by one of your spells. The ray from disrupt undead may be shot at any creature, but it only affects undead.WRoy2012-03-29T15:50:15ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Vendlehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#372012-03-29T14:31:50Z2012-03-29T14:31:50Z<p>@ Neo2151,</p>
<p>Heighten Spell makes a spell as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
<br />
A cantrip like <i>Light</i> heightened to 9th level would be as difficult to prepare and cast as <i>Meteor Swarm</i>. Would you let your party's spellcaster have unlimited <i>Meteor Swarm</i>?</p>
<p>More realistically, Heightening a cantrip to 1, and then using Magical Lineage to effectively use a 0th slot for it probably isn't game-breaking. As I read it, the metamagic'd spell becomes no different from other cantrips, because it's still a 0th level spell using a 0th level slot. Kudos for the player's ingenuity. IMHO.</p>@ Neo2151,
Heighten Spell makes a spell as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level.
A cantrip like Light heightened to 9th level would be as difficult to prepare and cast as Meteor Swarm. Would you let your party's spellcaster have unlimited Meteor Swarm?
More realistically, Heightening a cantrip to 1, and then using Magical Lineage to effectively use a 0th slot for it probably isn't game-breaking. As I read it, the metamagic'd spell becomes no different from other...Vendle2012-03-29T14:31:50ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Bobsonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#362012-03-29T13:37:02Z2012-03-29T13:37:02Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">LazarX wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Atarlost wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Bobson wrote:</div><blockquote>Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it. </blockquote>That house rule makes heighten overpowered in every other context. Maximized empowered heightened ray of enfeeblement would have the save DC and spell resistance penetration of a level 7 spell instead of a level 2 spell, overlapping the costs of empower and maximize with the cost of heighten. </blockquote>The only effect of the Heighten spell metamagic is to change a spell's save DC. It does not change any of the other results of the spell. </blockquote><p>Save DC, Spell resistance penetration, and anything that depends on spell level. You can counter a <i>deeper darkness</i> spell with a <i>heightened light</i>, provided the latter was high enough level.
<p>That being said, as Atarlost points out, I phrased it poorly. I didn't take into account stacking with other metamagics.</p>LazarX wrote:Atarlost wrote: Bobson wrote:Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it.
That house rule makes heighten overpowered in every other context. Maximized empowered heightened ray of enfeeblement would have the save DC and spell resistance penetration of a level 7 spell instead of a level 2 spell, overlapping the costs of empower and maximize with the cost of heighten. The only effect of the Heighten spell metamagic is to change a spell's save DC. It does not...Bobson2012-03-29T13:37:02ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Neo2151https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#352012-03-28T18:09:56Z2012-03-28T18:09:56Z<p>Stick me in the camp that says you can heighten a cantrip to whatever effective spell level you want and it won't be expended for the day.</p>
<p>Even at level 20, with Disrupt Undead treated as a 9th level spell that is never expended upon casting, that's still only 27hp per cast, at max level.</p>
<p>Hardly worth it, even without the trait requirement. ;)</p>Stick me in the camp that says you can heighten a cantrip to whatever effective spell level you want and it won't be expended for the day.
Even at level 20, with Disrupt Undead treated as a 9th level spell that is never expended upon casting, that's still only 27hp per cast, at max level.
Hardly worth it, even without the trait requirement. ;)Neo21512012-03-28T18:09:56ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?LazarXhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#342012-03-28T18:03:47Z2012-03-28T18:03:47Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Atarlost wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Bobson wrote:</div><blockquote>Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it. </blockquote>That house rule makes heighten overpowered in every other context. Maximized empowered heightened ray of enfeeblement would have the save DC and spell resistance penetration of a level 7 spell instead of a level 2 spell, overlapping the costs of empower and maximize with the cost of heighten. </blockquote><p>The only effect of the Heighten spell metamagic is to change a spell's save DC. It does not change any of the other results of the spell.Atarlost wrote:Bobson wrote:Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it.
That house rule makes heighten overpowered in every other context. Maximized empowered heightened ray of enfeeblement would have the save DC and spell resistance penetration of a level 7 spell instead of a level 2 spell, overlapping the costs of empower and maximize with the cost of heighten. The only effect of the Heighten spell metamagic is to change a spell's save DC. It does not change any of...LazarX2012-03-28T18:03:47ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?ShadowcatXhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#332012-03-28T17:42:28Z2012-03-28T17:42:28Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Rasmus Wagner wrote:</div><blockquote>actually, he's not taking a 1. level down to zero, he's taking a 0 up to 1. </blockquote><p>Actually he's taking a 0 up to 1 and then back down to 0, which is how he's able to cast it unlimited times. Up to 1 isn't a problem. 1 down to 0 is debatable.Rasmus Wagner wrote:actually, he's not taking a 1. level down to zero, he's taking a 0 up to 1.
Actually he's taking a 0 up to 1 and then back down to 0, which is how he's able to cast it unlimited times. Up to 1 isn't a problem. 1 down to 0 is debatable.ShadowcatX2012-03-28T17:42:28ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Selgardhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#322012-03-28T17:39:29Z2012-03-28T17:39:29Z<p>No, because Heighten has its own cost. Its not counted concurrent with other metamagic feats.</p>
<p>If you want to quicken (+3) and to add +3 to the Dc of 0 level spell you are burning a 6th level slot not a 3rd.</p>
<p>An empowered maximized spell would have the same DC as the original spell unless you also put it in a higher slot and had the heighten feat to take advantage of it.</p>
<p>Heighten does set the spell's level to wahtever slot is used to cast it, if heighten is the only MM feat applied. When you go applying others to it, you still have to take it into account.</p>
<p>-S</p>No, because Heighten has its own cost. Its not counted concurrent with other metamagic feats.
If you want to quicken (+3) and to add +3 to the Dc of 0 level spell you are burning a 6th level slot not a 3rd.
An empowered maximized spell would have the same DC as the original spell unless you also put it in a higher slot and had the heighten feat to take advantage of it.
Heighten does set the spell's level to wahtever slot is used to cast it, if heighten is the only MM feat applied. When you...Selgard2012-03-28T17:39:29ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Atarlosthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#312012-03-28T16:34:48Z2012-03-28T16:34:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Bobson wrote:</div><blockquote>Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it. </blockquote><p>That house rule makes heighten overpowered in every other context. Maximized empowered heightened ray of enfeeblement would have the save DC and spell resistance penetration of a level 7 spell instead of a level 2 spell, overlapping the costs of empower and maximize with the cost of heighten.Bobson wrote:Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it.
That house rule makes heighten overpowered in every other context. Maximized empowered heightened ray of enfeeblement would have the save DC and spell resistance penetration of a level 7 spell instead of a level 2 spell, overlapping the costs of empower and maximize with the cost of heighten.Atarlost2012-03-28T16:34:48ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Shar Tahlhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#302012-03-28T17:52:38Z2012-03-28T16:03:24Z<p>This is one of those fuzzy areas where the gm needs to step up and set a rule precedent. The way I see it, once a cantrip type spell has had metamagic applied to it, then that spell slot is now expendable. The same goes for higher spells reduced to 0. They do not become unlimited use. The only unlimited use spells are unmodified cantrips, as I feel it was intended.</p>This is one of those fuzzy areas where the gm needs to step up and set a rule precedent. The way I see it, once a cantrip type spell has had metamagic applied to it, then that spell slot is now expendable. The same goes for higher spells reduced to 0. They do not become unlimited use. The only unlimited use spells are unmodified cantrips, as I feel it was intended.Shar Tahl2012-03-28T16:03:24ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Tarantulahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#292012-03-28T15:19:00Z2012-03-28T15:19:00Z<p>Diego, do you also rule that if a wizard applies a metamagic to a cantrip (such as still spell) but also has a magical lineage for that cantrip, that it is able to be cast an unlimited amount of times per day, or just as many times as its prepared?</p>Diego, do you also rule that if a wizard applies a metamagic to a cantrip (such as still spell) but also has a magical lineage for that cantrip, that it is able to be cast an unlimited amount of times per day, or just as many times as its prepared?Tarantula2012-03-28T15:19:00ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Diego Rossihttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#282012-03-28T06:25:00Z2012-03-28T06:25:00Z<p>This seem to be one of those thing about having your cake and eating it at the same time.</p>
<p>A cantrip to be cast unlimited times should be cast from a 0 level slot and should count as a 0 level spell.
<br />
To benefit from the healing grace ability of the Life subschool a spell should count as level 1+ or it will cure 0 hp.</p>
<p>So you are trying to count the spell as having different levels depending on how it suit you. No good, either it count as a first level spell cast in a 0 level slots and so it can be cast once every time it is prepared or it count as a cantrip, can be cast an unlimited number f times but don't heal anything. </p>
<p>"Cantrips: Wizards can prepare a number of cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day, as noted on Table: Wizard under “Spells per Day.” These spells are cast like any other spell, but they are not expended when cast and may be used again. A wizard can prepare a cantrip from a prohibited school, but it uses up two of his available slots (see below)."</p>
<p>Cantrips are 0 level spells. The second they stop being 0 level spells they stop working an unlimited number of times.</p>This seem to be one of those thing about having your cake and eating it at the same time.
A cantrip to be cast unlimited times should be cast from a 0 level slot and should count as a 0 level spell.
To benefit from the healing grace ability of the Life subschool a spell should count as level 1+ or it will cure 0 hp.
So you are trying to count the spell as having different levels depending on how it suit you. No good, either it count as a first level spell cast in a 0 level slots and so it...Diego Rossi2012-03-28T06:25:00ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Bobsonhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#272012-03-27T03:20:22Z2012-03-27T03:20:22Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tarantula wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Reecy wrote:</div><blockquote> Actually No this will not work, the spell would have to remain at level 1 or it would do not actually heal because you are droping the effective level back to 0 that Healing grace looks at the spell it is being casted at which would then be zero again. Now I believe you could do it if you scribed scrolls with heighten spell on it, but there is some debate metamagic is allowed th be Scribed So I would say GM discretion. </blockquote>So if he took a level 1 spell, heightened it to level 2, and had magical lineage applied dropping it back to level 1 slot required... you would say it only generates 1 hp of healing? Even though its Save DC and Damage would be as if it was level 2. </blockquote><p>Actually, I'd personally say Magical Lineage and Heighten don't stack in a useful manner. Heighten sets the spell's level to whatever slot is used to cast it. Magical Lineage lowers the slot by 1. Therefore, heighten is setting it to one level lower than you specified. Is this actually RAW? I'm not sure. I know it's come up before, but I'm too lazy to look it up. But it makes sense, and it prevents combining the two abilites to do weird things like this.
<p>So to answer the question, I'd say it generates 1 hp of healing and has the save DC and damage of a level 1 spell. Effectively, he added Heighten of +0.</p>Tarantula wrote:Reecy wrote: Actually No this will not work, the spell would have to remain at level 1 or it would do not actually heal because you are droping the effective level back to 0 that Healing grace looks at the spell it is being casted at which would then be zero again. Now I believe you could do it if you scribed scrolls with heighten spell on it, but there is some debate metamagic is allowed th be Scribed So I would say GM discretion.
So if he took a level 1 spell, heightened it...Bobson2012-03-27T03:20:22ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Tarantulahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#262012-03-26T18:09:53Z2012-03-26T18:09:53Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Reecy wrote:</div><blockquote> Actually No this will not work, the spell would have to remain at level 1 or it would do not actually heal because you are droping the effective level back to 0 that Healing grace looks at the spell it is being casted at which would then be zero again. Now I believe you could do it if you scribed scrolls with heighten spell on it, but there is some debate metamagic is allowed th be Scribed So I would say GM discretion. </blockquote><p>So if he took a level 1 spell, heightened it to level 2, and had magical lineage applied dropping it back to level 1 slot required... you would say it only generates 1 hp of healing? Even though its Save DC and Damage would be as if it was level 2.Reecy wrote:Actually No this will not work, the spell would have to remain at level 1 or it would do not actually heal because you are droping the effective level back to 0 that Healing grace looks at the spell it is being casted at which would then be zero again. Now I believe you could do it if you scribed scrolls with heighten spell on it, but there is some debate metamagic is allowed th be Scribed So I would say GM discretion.
So if he took a level 1 spell, heightened it to level 2, and...Tarantula2012-03-26T18:09:53ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Reecyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#252012-03-26T15:05:28Z2012-03-26T15:05:28Z<p>Actually No this will not work, the spell would have to remain at level 1 or it would do not actually heal because you are droping the effective level back to 0 that Healing grace looks at the spell it is being casted at which would then be zero again. Now I believe you could do it if you scribed scrolls with heighten spell on it, but there is some debate metamagic is allowed th be Scribed So I would say GM discretion.</p>Actually No this will not work, the spell would have to remain at level 1 or it would do not actually heal because you are droping the effective level back to 0 that Healing grace looks at the spell it is being casted at which would then be zero again. Now I believe you could do it if you scribed scrolls with heighten spell on it, but there is some debate metamagic is allowed th be Scribed So I would say GM discretion.Reecy2012-03-26T15:05:28ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?GeneticDrifthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#242012-03-26T14:58:53Z2012-03-26T14:58:53Z<p>Lol you are claiming a 0 level spell that is cast from a 0 level slot is a first level spell. Next you will have 9th lvl spells maximized due to your reading. Heighten fireball then add maximize so it hits the cap.</p>
<p>Level Increase: The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level</p>
<p>Edit: heighten makes it a different lvl spell It does not modify the spell slot needed.</p>Lol you are claiming a 0 level spell that is cast from a 0 level slot is a first level spell. Next you will have 9th lvl spells maximized due to your reading. Heighten fireball then add maximize so it hits the cap.
Level Increase: The heightened spell is as difficult to prepare and cast as a spell of its effective level
Edit: heighten makes it a different lvl spell It does not modify the spell slot needed.GeneticDrift2012-03-26T14:58:53ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?CyderGnomehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#232012-03-26T14:53:35Z2012-03-26T14:53:35Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">StreamOfTheSky wrote:</div><blockquote>The only thing about this that has me confused is...wouldn't Message be a MUCH better choice for the spell to build around? Each use can heal all your allies instead of only one...</blockquote><p>Disrupt Undead was chosen to "double dip" at early levels so a caster facing the undead could do 1d6+1 points of damage to it. Not a major improvement I know. As to Message being used to heal all your allies, the spell still only generates 1 (to 3) hp total per spell level... so you while you would have more targets you can still only give that single hit point to one of them.
<p>All in all this isn't really any more disruptive than everyone and their brother carrying wands of CLW, but infinite resource loops annoy me so I had been hoping that someone could shoot this down by citing a concrete rule (or ruling) that I had somehow missed.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input everyone!</p>StreamOfTheSky wrote:The only thing about this that has me confused is...wouldn't Message be a MUCH better choice for the spell to build around? Each use can heal all your allies instead of only one...
Disrupt Undead was chosen to "double dip" at early levels so a caster facing the undead could do 1d6+1 points of damage to it. Not a major improvement I know. As to Message being used to heal all your allies, the spell still only generates 1 (to 3) hp total per spell level... so you while you...CyderGnome2012-03-26T14:53:35ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Vendis (alias of Rivade)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#222012-03-26T14:48:59Z2012-03-26T14:48:59Z<p>For PFS, this probably wouldn't fly. The developers have said that the Glorious Heat + Spark combo is overpowered by their standards and that they won't allow it in PFS. Regardless of interpretations of Magical Lineage's effects, the time taken to heal back up to full, or whatever other possible holes that might be in this setup, they've said that unlimited healing should be very expensive, and despite any suboptimal choices made with this combo to reach it, all in all, it's not that much.</p>
<p>Past that, I would allow it if I were GMing with my current group, because we're a laid back bunch who don't take things that seriously. I would happily play a much more serious game, but the people at my table just aren't those kinds of people. That game is for having fun, roleplaying, and socializing.</p>
<p>If I were to be in a game that the players at the table had a similar mindset as me and the GM wasn't planning to hold back, then I would (even as a player) not want the option. That game is for the challenge, while I would still optimize, access to something like this removes a lot of the possible challenges (I mean, this can pretty much negate traps that deal hitpoint damage).</p>For PFS, this probably wouldn't fly. The developers have said that the Glorious Heat + Spark combo is overpowered by their standards and that they won't allow it in PFS. Regardless of interpretations of Magical Lineage's effects, the time taken to heal back up to full, or whatever other possible holes that might be in this setup, they've said that unlimited healing should be very expensive, and despite any suboptimal choices made with this combo to reach it, all in all, it's not that much.
...Vendis (alias of Rivade)2012-03-26T14:48:59ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Kydeem de'Morcainehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#212012-03-26T14:13:56Z2012-03-26T14:13:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lune wrote:</div><blockquote> Once again... I know. I didn't say that he did. </blockquote><p>Sry, then I guess we don't understand your question.
</p>
"I thought the rule was that you couldn't drop the spell below it's original level?"</p>
<p>It sounds as if you are saying he dropped the spell below it's original level. We naturally assumed from this wording that the question applied to the topic being discussed. If not and it was a question about the trait in general, you could have said that instead of just repeatedly telling us we didn't answer your question.</p>
<p>The trait reduces 1 off the total cost of applying metamagic to a spell. There is no way a reduction of one could reduce it below the original level unless there is a metamagic that doesn't raise the level of the spell. Is there one like that? If there is, I don't remember it but that would be worthy of a seperate thread/discussion.</p>Lune wrote:Once again... I know. I didn't say that he did.
Sry, then I guess we don't understand your question.
"I thought the rule was that you couldn't drop the spell below it's original level?"It sounds as if you are saying he dropped the spell below it's original level. We naturally assumed from this wording that the question applied to the topic being discussed. If not and it was a question about the trait in general, you could have said that instead of just repeatedly telling us we...Kydeem de'Morcaine2012-03-26T14:13:56ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Delenothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#202012-03-26T11:50:47Z2012-03-26T11:50:47Z<p>Nice idea. Maybe not for every build, but still nice.</p>Nice idea. Maybe not for every build, but still nice.Delenot2012-03-26T11:50:47ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Quatarhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#192012-03-26T11:30:38Z2012-03-26T11:30:38Z<p>You can now argue that due to the Heighten Spell this spell is now a level 1 spell, that has been reduced to use a 0-level slot, but it's still a 1st level spell. I mean that's the entire goal to have it count as a 1st level spell for that ability.</p>
<p>However it's not a property of 0-level slots that they're not expended on cast, it's a property of cantrips. And that spell is no longer a cantrip, its a 1st level spell.
<br />
So it would need to be prepared in a 0-level spell but would be expended on cast.</p>
<p>That said, I don't think its really overpowered to allow it though. Cure Minor Wounds was taken away because then everyone would have it. In this case you spend a feat and a trait on it, and are forced into a school specialisation, and it still takes a long time to fix people up again.
<br />
Apropriate if not even a bit underwhelming for the cost.</p>You can now argue that due to the Heighten Spell this spell is now a level 1 spell, that has been reduced to use a 0-level slot, but it's still a 1st level spell. I mean that's the entire goal to have it count as a 1st level spell for that ability.
However it's not a property of 0-level slots that they're not expended on cast, it's a property of cantrips. And that spell is no longer a cantrip, its a 1st level spell.
So it would need to be prepared in a 0-level spell but would be expended on...Quatar2012-03-26T11:30:38ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Lunehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#182012-03-26T11:15:46Z2012-03-26T11:15:46Z<p>Once again... I know. I didn't say that he did.</p>Once again... I know. I didn't say that he did.Lune2012-03-26T11:15:46ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Kydeem de'Morcainehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#172012-03-26T10:44:26Z2012-03-26T10:44:26Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Lune wrote:</div><blockquote> I thought the rule was that you couldn't drop the spell below it's original level? </blockquote><p>He did not drop it below the original level. The original level is 0, because it is a cantrip.Lune wrote:I thought the rule was that you couldn't drop the spell below it's original level?
He did not drop it below the original level. The original level is 0, because it is a cantrip.Kydeem de'Morcaine2012-03-26T10:44:26ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?wraithstrike (alias of concerro)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#162012-03-26T08:23:30Z2012-03-26T08:23:30Z<p>I don't think that is a rule. I am sure they would not allow it on purpose, but Paizo has no rule against it that I know of. </p>
<p>It should also be noted that a spell's effective and actual level are not the same thing which. That is how the OP's idea works.</p>I don't think that is a rule. I am sure they would not allow it on purpose, but Paizo has no rule against it that I know of.
It should also be noted that a spell's effective and actual level are not the same thing which. That is how the OP's idea works.wraithstrike (alias of concerro)2012-03-26T08:23:30ZRe: Forums: Rules Questions: Necromancy Subschool Life + Heighten Spell + Magical Lineage = font of endless healing?Lunehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nu5t?Necromancy-Subschool-Life-Heighten-Spell#152012-03-26T08:18:11Z2012-03-26T08:18:11Z<p>So the rule is that you can not drop a spell below it's original level then...yes?</p>So the rule is that you can not drop a spell below it's original level then...yes?Lune2012-03-26T08:18:11Z