What exactly does it mean when they describe the PF/SW Earthdawn as based on 1st Ed Earthdawn, as opposed to the current 3rd Ed? Is it primarily timeline and setting based, or are there other differences we need to be aware of?
The timeline! We're starting fresh.
I do hope that they don't try to punish players for using an alternative magic weapon system like Weapons of Legacy did.
No punishment! How exactly were players punished in WoL, out of curiosity?
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So, about the orcs in this setting at that point in the timeline:
Are they "Always Chaotic Evil" types or do they have a better range of possibilities than that? Do they have a well developed culture to mine that isn't built around being stock villains?
(just been desperately searching for good support for non-evil orcs since forever, have to ask)
What exactly does it mean when they describe the PF/SW Earthdawn as based on 1st Ed Earthdawn, as opposed to the current 3rd Ed? Is it primarily timeline and setting based, or are there other differences we need to be aware of?
The game materials are based on Earthdawn First Edition, as published by FASA, so are set in that time period (1506 TH, if you are familiar with ED timekeeping) and use the talents, spells, etc., presented in the FASA publications. Setting is the same (Barsaive). If you have a lot of ED books already, there's no surprises in this content, right down to the look-and-feel (very retro-FASA).
As we've noted on our web site (check out the House of 'Brick newsletter, in the Downloads section of the Forums), these editions are to get the game out to PF/SW gamers who might have heard of Earthdawn, but never played it because PF/SW are their preferred game systems.
Earthdawn Third Edition is its own creature and could be considered "core" Earthdawn. New material incorporated into ED3 likely won't make any appearances in the PF/SE edition straight-away (it might, in time, but it's too early to call).
The way that we have approached PF/SW Earthdawn is to accept that there will be divergence from the core. There is a larger player base for both of these game systems, and the nature of that means that there will (hopefully) be more people playing ED.
However, there's a lot of material out for both PF and SW, and we're interested in seeing what other gamers bring to the Earthdawn party in terms of fan-based material and (hopefully) submitted adventures and supplements that can be published.
My pipe dream is to see Earthdawn played in the context of a Pathfinder Society setup at conventions (as it used to be in the Living Earthdawn era), but that's really up to the players to decide.
Bottom line is that we would love to see more people exposed to the Earthdawn setting and we're not "precious" (and nor is FASA) about seeing it grow beyond the limitations of the ED3 player base, which is small, but loyal (and we love them for that; it's so very important).
Not sure if that answered the question well, but hopefully it did.
Kind regards, James
So, about the orcs in this setting at that point in the timeline:
Are they "Always Chaotic Evil" types or do they have a better range of possibilities than that? Do they have a well developed culture to mine that isn't built around being stock villains?
(just been desperately searching for good support for non-evil orcs since forever, have to ask)
Orks are a core player race in Earthdawn, Mikaze. As are trolls. They are very different from the orcs you will find in Pathfinder. There is a short write-up in the Player's Guide, a little more information in the GM Guide, and a full write-up in the upcoming Denizens of Barsaive sourcebooks. Orks are awesome...
Earthdawn and the default campaign setting, Barsaive, is a very "shades of gray" playing field. While there is true evil in the form of the Horrors, even that could be construed as "not really evil, just misunderstood" in the minds of some people.
Earthdawn and the default campaign setting, Barsaive, is a very "shades of gray" playing field. While there is true evil in the form of the Horrors, even that could be construed as "not really evil, just misunderstood" in the minds of some people.I'm not sure I can cope with "just misunderstood" Horrors.
Incomprehensible alien monstrosities that feed off of our suffering, perhaps.
Heh. Misunderstood is in the eye of the beholder (sic).
"No, no. You do not understand. My Master is benevolent and merciful. Yes he murdered those villagers, but it was to save them from themselves! You have to see, they were all doomed anyway. At least they received a peaceful death, swift and painless compared to the years of torment and toil they would otherwise have faced. I see the suffering in your eyes; the pain of being a hero must weigh heavy upon you. Come, sit. Let my Master tend to your suffering. Let his kindness extend to you and your colleagues."
So, about the orcs in this setting at that point in the timeline:
Are they "Always Chaotic Evil" types or do they have a better range of possibilities than that? Do they have a well developed culture to mine that isn't built around being stock villains?
(just been desperately searching for good support for non-evil orcs since forever, have to ask)
Yeah, there really aren't any stock bad guy humanoids. Orks were once a slave race and have developed a nomadic tribe system based on raiding (called Scorchers), but many also live in settlements. Some of the scorcher tribes work as mercenaries. In fact, one of the leading nations of Barsaive, the dwarf kingdom of Throal, employs a few as permanent auxiliaries (you might imagine that a dwarf nation would be hard pressed to develop a formidable cavalry unit on their own).
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By forcing pcs to burn resources to use them and punishing them with penalties.
Ah, yeah, none of that going on here!
I'm not sure I can cope with "just misunderstood" Horrors.
Incomprehensible alien monstrosities that feed off of our suffering, perhaps.
It should be noted that all Horrors I have statted so far have been chaotic evil. ;)
And design-wise, they are outsiders with the new Horror subtype (described in the upcoming Game Master's Guide).
It's a damm shame. FASA's creation deserved a better fate than to be dismembered and sacrificed to D20.
A better fate than say, oh I don't know, Earthdawn Third Edition, which is still available and alive and well?
A better fate than say, oh I don't know, Earthdawn Third Edition, which is still available and alive and well?
It's a damm shame. FASA's creation deserved a better fate than to be dismembered and sacrificed to D20.
I remember when Guardians of Order decided that Big Eyes Small Mouth could expand it's audience by going D20.
Within a year or so of that experiment, both versions of the game as well as the company itself, were defunct.
Reactionary fears noted. But it should also be noted that GoO had other problems (hell, I'm still waiting for my free Game of Thrones D20 adventure!).
dotting for later.
Orcs in earthdawn are by far one of the best lore wise.Elves have a pretty interesting history too.I cant stand dwarves in most settings but here they arent gimlis redneck cousins for once.
Orks and Trolls that both, basically, originated as concepts from Shadowrun, of course. :)
It still irks me that those involved deny the connections between the two settings (Earthdawn and Shadowrun) because of some bad blood.
I really want to see how this has all been handled as it would be a great base-line for a Shadowrun Pathfinder game if I ever would want to do that as well.
Pathfinder Sci-Fi is coming when, again? ;) <laugh>
I wonder if the trolls and obsidimen are actually going to be Large. At the least, in Earthdawn they are allowed to use larger weapons that most of the races, so perhaps they'll just go for that patch, but I hope we actually see Large races that require less patchwork.
They're Large.
I've never heard anyone deny the connection between Earthdawn and Shadowrun. I got into Earthdawn specifically because I followed the story line from Shadowrun. I wanted to know more about the great dragons, the immortal elves, and the like.
Now AFAIK they don't do any crossovers any longer, but the two game lines are held by two different companies so cross overs would be difficult to do now. Of course, that also works in game as well, there shouldn't be tons of crossover, its been a long 5th world.
I have - the damned guys who worked for FASA when I asked them a question about the connections. ;)
This was after the break-up between the creator of the setting and FASA, though. :)
I think that the module "Harlequin's Back" had the strongest links between the two ages... I'm not sure if it was addressed in the novels or not.
And as far as crossovers now... well... one can hope two companies might work together at least for the storylines to mesh.<grin>
Hiya,
@Crossovers: Not sure where you got your information, Chuck (I get mine direct from FASA these days), but there was a definite crossover between ED and SR during the FASA era, even if it wasn't played up as much as some fans think it should have been. Post-FASA period, not so much.
If Shadowrun had stayed with Fanpro, then things would certainly be a lot different than they are now. As it is, other than a brief liaison with some seeds in one of the SR4 adventure series ("no spoilers, sweetie"), there's no official crossovers between anything ED and SR these days and no plans for that to change.
As it stands, anyone wanting to run a crossover game is more than welcome to do so on my watch. Draw connections as you will; as long as you're having fun, you're doing it right.
@Theran bias: It's ED1 for Pathfinder. Those Therans are still hated by most Namegivers in Barsaive (although, to be fair, given the Barsaive province bias, the bias against Therans is always going to be accentuated. /grin).
Kind regards, James
Harlequin's Back pretty much screamed cross over. Big D's will also screamed cross over. As did Aztlan source book. The Tirs.
As far as novels, there are a lot of cross overs, including a cross over series of novels, where the main character is in Earthdawn for 2 novels and Shadowrun for 1 novel.
Thanks for the reminders. It's been so long since I've read any of the sourcebooks and novels.
Now my hands are itching to dig them out or find electronic versions... I don't have that kinda time anymore! <laugh>
Hiya,
@Crossovers: Not sure where you got your information, Chuck (I get mine direct from FASA these days), but there was a definite crossover between ED and SR during the FASA era, even if it wasn't played up as much as some fans think it should have been. Post-FASA period, not so much.
If Shadowrun had stayed with Fanpro, then things would certainly be a lot different than they are now. As it is, other than a brief liaison with some seeds in one of the SR4 adventure series ("no spoilers, sweetie"), there's no official crossovers between anything ED and SR these days.
As it stands, anyone wanting to run a crossover game is more than welcome to do so on my watch. Draw connections as you will; as long as you're having fun, you're doing it right.
@Theran bias: It's ED1 for Pathfinder. Those Therans are still hated by most Namegivers in Barsaive (although, to be fair, given the Barsaive province bias, the bias against Therans is always going to be accentuated. /grin).
Kind regards, James
Thanks for the reply, James. My info came from, I think, a very sketchy period of time where the "official line" was to deny any connections for legal reasons. It was obvious that there was a connection, but it was still vehemently denied at the time. There is obviously a connection between the two and was spelled out in products. The fans new this and they (myself included) were very confused by the denials.
I think you'll find that kind of "denial" (or at least, "non-confirmation") was part of the FASA design philosophy. I'd explain that statement in more detail, but it's one of those things that's better talked about over a few beers in an informal setting, rather than plastered all over the Internet. :)
OK good, I'm not insane, then. <laugh>
In any case, I would wish you good luck but you won't need luck!
Cheers!
I hope that the setting is presented without too much bias. I always thought that the Therans were unjustly vilified.
The next Adventure Campaign after Parlainth, which is Sky Point & Vivane, will have a lot of good, bad, and in-between Therans. ;)
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Orks are a core player race in Earthdawn, Mikaze. As are trolls. They are very different from the orcs you will find in Pathfinder. There is a short write-up in the Player's Guide, a little more information in the GM Guide, and a full write-up in the upcoming Denizens of Barsaive sourcebooks. Orks are awesome...
Yeah, there really aren't any stock bad guy humanoids. Orks were once a slave race and have developed a nomadic tribe system based on raiding (called Scorchers), but many also live in settlements. Some of the scorcher tribes work as mercenaries. In fact, one of the leading nations of Barsaive, the dwarf kingdom of Throal, employs a few as permanent auxiliaries (you might imagine that a dwarf nation would be hard pressed to develop a formidable cavalry unit on their own).
Sold. :)
Thanks for the info guys!
Thanks for the info guys!
You bet!
And as a heads up, two of the books in this year's pipeline include Denizens of Barsaive I (which details humans, elves, t'skrang, and windlings) and Denizens of Barsaive II (which details orks, trolls, dwarfs, and obsidimen).
Each book deeply explores the cultures of the races, presents new racial subtypes, makes available new culturally specific equipment, and provides racial Disciplines.
How heavily will these draw upon the original titles? I know that a lot of work has to be done on the crunch side but should we be expecting fresh material from the fluff as well or no?
I'm good either way. :D
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How heavily will these draw upon the original titles? I know that a lot of work has to be done on the crunch side but should we be expecting fresh material from the fluff as well or no?
I'm good either way. :D
Books like Denizens won't have new fluff; most of our new fluff will be all-original books, such as the Adventure Campaigns and new creature/Horror books.
How heavily will these draw upon the original titles? I know that a lot of work has to be done on the crunch side but should we be expecting fresh material from the fluff as well or no?
I'm good either way. :D
Books like Denizens won't have new fluff; most of our new fluff will be all-original books, such as the Adventure Campaigns and new creature/Horror books.
What levels are the adventure paths for? I take it that the classes will be new and unique from Pathfinder? Any hints on what the adventure is about?
How heavily will these draw upon the original titles? I know that a lot of work has to be done on the crunch side but should we be expecting fresh material from the fluff as well or no?
I'm good either way. :D
Books like Denizens won't have new fluff; most of our new fluff will be all-original books, such as the Adventure Campaigns and new creature/Horror books.
Still an absolutely fantastic deal. I won't have to dig my old books out of storage to re-read them. :D
What levels are the adventure paths for? I take it that the classes will be new and unique from Pathfinder? Any hints on what the adventure is about?
The first campaign is set in and around the city of Parlainth, with a base of operations out of Haven. I can't go into too many specifics right now, but the overall plot deals with competing goals among various factions of the ruined city. The three main contenders are Theran, Throalic, and the Unforgiveables under the great dragon Charcoalgrin. The PCs will have to decide which faction to support, and as the plot thickens, the PCs will go deeper and deeper into the Forgotten City, exploring its various sections while being drawn further and further into the web of intrigue.
Each adventure will focus on a different section of the ruins, and a corresponding article featured in the book will explore that particular section in more depth.
The Parlainth sourcebook will release 1 month before the Adventure Campaign begins (pre-orders available in May), which will also help GMs fill in any details and provide a very large sandbox as a backdrop to the adventures.
Each Adventure Campaign will be designed to go from 1st level to around 14th to 16th.
The titles for the Parlainth Adventure Campaign are as follows:
1. Relics of the Forgotten City
2. In Treachery's Shadow
3. Vault of the Dreaming Dead
4. Dwellers of Ruin
5. The Nexus Crucible
6. Beyond the Lost Realm
The problem is that they are two pieces of a world that got sold to separate and by definition competing companies. So that's a Humpty Egg that will never be put back together again.That essentially forces a retcon that does mean that despite they were once one world, they never were.
When I designed the Cathay sourcebooks for Earthdawn Third Edition, I very carefully planted many easter eggs for SR fans and did my best to ensure continuity.
It still irks me that those involved deny the connections between the two settings (Earthdawn and Shadowrun) because of some bad blood.
The problem is that they are two pieces of a world that got sold to separate and by definition competing companies. So that's a Humpty Egg that will never be put back together again.
That essentially forces a retcon that does mean that despite they were once one world, they never were.
What I'm talking about happened BEFORE the sale of the properties.
When I designed the Cathay sourcebooks for Earthdawn Third Edition, I very carefully planted many easter eggs for SR fans and did my best to ensure continuity.
The problem is that they are two pieces of a world that got sold to separate and by definition competing companies. So that's a Humpty Egg that will never be put back together again.That essentially forces a retcon that does mean that despite they were once one world, they never were.
Yes, the books were fairly obvious about the connection while FASA officially denied it. This has been ascribed to their design philosophy at the time which comes at the price of a beer for James, it seems. ;)
... which comes at the price of a beer for James, it seems. ;)
What can I say? I'm a cheap date. :)
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I'm curious, will there be all new classes or will current classes be used?
Current classes! However, Earthdawn characters begin play with a bonus Discipline feat, which grants several new class skills and--by way of prerequisite--many new abilities called Adept Feats (considered supernatural abilities in game terms). Once a Discipline feat is chosen, the character is then officially an Adept. Adepts also have access to the Adept feat Karma Ritual, which allows them to gain Karna Points.
Choosing your bonus Discipline feat will be limited by your base class, as these feats, like all others, have prerequisites of their own.
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This makes me happy. I've got way too many good 3pp classes to give up on them.
Glad to hear it! We wanted to make PF ED as accessible to PF fans as possible, and we felt that allowing them to choose the classes they are already familiar with and love would be one way to do that.
We assume that most players will want to be an Adept, but there's nothing stopping someone from beginning play with just a core class and perhaps picking up a Discipline later through roleplaying.