At each class level beyond 1st, the Pathfinder savant chooses a spell from any class’s spell list and thereafter treats it as if it were on the spell list of his base spellcasting classes; if his base class could not normally cast that spell, it is treated as 1 level higher. The spell’s type (arcane or divine) and save DCs function as normal for his base spellcasting class.
I was wondering what spells other classes get that wizards would really like to get.
So far I have
silence 2nd level get as 3rd level
I'm not really that interested in the low level stuff. Pathfinder Savants can use there own caster lv for spell completion items and the low level spells are cheap. I would not have done silence, but that seemed like something that might be used every day, but could just get a wand (4500 owe) if there are better high level stuff to get.
I'm a divinationist. In fact the character is meant to be a great knowledge broker. I plan on doing the god wizard thing.
This character is really a back-up in case the one I have right now dies. I was thinking that he has a planing to steal a book of true names from one of lords of the lower plans and that he highers the party to help him do it. So his level would be 7+.
Yes, I know know that that is a bit low to try and pull something like that most of the stuff and there would eat us alive so it has to be very well planned out.
Ill Omen is a lower level spell, but being able to Quicken it....now we're talkin.
A Wizard with quickened Ill Omen as a sixth level spell is a bad, bad person. Combine with Persistent Spell and you're going to force your target to make the Saving Throw FOUR times in a row or suffer full effects.
Litany of Righteousness is good, but I don't know if it can compare to haste and sense I have to bump it up one level that is what I have to compare it to.
Holy Word is a awesome spell. If you can find anyways to bump up your caster level. Clerics can use karma beads for that wizards can't.
Wall of Thorns is a great spell thank you for pointing it out. With that you can lock down a field. Good even at 7th level.
Don't know about duird summoning feats, being a savant is fairly feat intensive, but I will look into it.
Heal is good especially if the DM lets my take it from the adept spell list.
Flame seeds....I think it might be good for Druids, but wizards have this thing called fireball that does the about the same damage on a failed save ;)
Death ward and Freedom of movement are definably things I want get.
Holy Sword would be awesome, if anyone else could use it. I'm not proficient with swords.
Bestow Grace of the Champion: Wow I can get this before the cleric and turn fighter into super fighter. Too bad he dumped charisma, but still worth it.
do non-wizards get any good divination spells?
Don't see that it was a swift action that changes things.
Are you open to using the PrC to get very good spells at reduced level that are otherwise already on your list? I would agree that doing so vs. obtaining whole new spells is subpar, but if you wanted to do it, you could probably nab some nice level reductions via the Summoner's spell list.
Some other suggestions...
Alchemical Allocation as a 3rd level slot to use a CL 20 long duration potion daily. Not sure if this is valid, extracts have a weird spells / not spells paradox.
Twin Form as a 7th level spell. Also an extract, so might not work.
Burst of Speed may or may not be worth a 4th level slot...
Strong Jaw is a powerful buff if anyone in the party has natural attacks. Would be 4th level (from Ranger).
Freedom of Movement: 5th level, so worth it.
I've always liked Modify Memory.
I really have to 2nd the suggestion of Heal (especially from Adept's list), and Breath of Life is also good. Also should note that Holy Word, Blasphemy, etc... are 6th level spells on the Inquisitor list, so they'd be 7th for you.
If Alechemical Allocation is valid i'm going to be using all my 3rd level spell for hour per level potions every day. Mindblank, Moment of Prescience, Statue the list goes on.
Yeah, AA would be paying a 3rd level slot for up to 3rd level spell effect, so the only real benefits are: 1) If your DM actually lets you buy a high (18-20ish) CL potion, that lasts a lot longer and is much harder to dispel than your own spells if you're mid level / early teens and 2) since it's a potion, it doesn't have to be on your spell list, so it could be a buff from any spell list.
It's probably not that useful, honestly, even if it is valid. Which again I have no idea. I think Twin Form is a much better option for someone who's not evil yet would like to have magic jar-like effects (go out and kill stuff while your real body is hidden nearby safely).
Potentially raise dead, and don't overlook the Druid spell list. They have battlefield control to beat the band.
Depending on flavor, you might like planar ally more than planar binding.
And cure light wounds, because once it's on your list, you can use scrolls, wands, even a staff of healing.
It says that getting the spells does not work for magic items.
Other people can't use magic items you create of spells that do not belong on the wizard list is what that means. At least, that's what I thought it meant.
On the subject of battlefield control from Druid, Entangle and Plant Growth are nice, although extremely limited in where you can use them.
I class the Pathfinder Savant as one of the most overpowered classes in the game. And there is only one reason for that, the Summoner spell list.
Early entries for all summoner spells, Summon Monster VII as a level 5 spell? Where do I sign up? Just to mention a few other early entries haste, black tentacles, magic jar, dimension door, teleport, greater teleport, maze, and dominate monster. But if you actually want to have fun, ignore the summoner spell list, if you just want to build the strongest possible caster, here it is. Also you can steal the Overwhelming Presence spell from the Inquisitor spell list also, if you want to aoe stagger all opponents without a save.
I was going to suggest Overwhelming Presence. Partly because I just really like a spell that compels others to worship you as a god. :)
But I don't think using those precious 6 spells on ones you could already learn is worth it, long-run.
But no way is PF Savant overpowered. It loses a CL. It's features mostly make up for that, but they don't go nearly far enough to make up for it AND make the PrC overpowered.
But no way is PF Savant overpowered. It loses a CL
Wait... So you can pick up summon monster VIII (summoner) or dominate monster (bard, or summoner) at level 12 as a wizard and that's not op?
I value single tricks and immediate gratification (how OP is it a few levels later?) less than you do? I guess in terms of PFS play where you have a hard stop at 12 and probably not the same DM to adapt to you, that would be worse.
I've not yet made it past 11th level for real honestly. 12 is nearly in sight! If I want to dominate monsters, Pathfinder Savant can make it happen realistically and 5 levels early...
The issue is, will my fellow players agree that it's ok to have spells we'd otherwise never see 5 levels early? Have I not gained a massive advantage on them?
Wait... So you can pick up summon monster VIII (summoner) or dominate monster (bard, or summoner) at level 12 as a wizard and that's not op?
No, he could pick up Dominate Monster (a 6th level summoner spell) at level 14 -- it becomes a level 7 spell for the Pathfinder Savant. It's still pretty sweet, but it's not quite as good as you're suggesting.
Wait... So you can pick up summon monster VIII (summoner) or dominate monster (bard, or summoner) at level 12 as a wizard and that's not op?No, he could pick up Dominate Monster (a 6th level summoner spell) at level 14 -- it becomes a level 7 spell for the Pathfinder Savant. It's still pretty sweet, but it's not quite as good as you're suggesting.
also you would have to pick it at level 12 and would not be able to use it for 2 levels.
Wait... So you can pick up summon monster VIII (summoner) or dominate monster (bard, or summoner) at level 12 as a wizard and that's not op?No, he could pick up Dominate Monster (a 6th level summoner spell) at level 14 -- it becomes a level 7 spell for the Pathfinder Savant. It's still pretty sweet, but it's not quite as good as you're suggesting.
As a wizard can cast these spells, esoteric magic's "treat them as 1 level higher" clause does not apply.
The intent, most likely, is that you cannot choose spells already on your class list... Though even that does not close all the issues.
Animate objects (clr) + Permanency (wiz) = Insta constructs permanently
Edit: Expensive, but you can have your own terracota army!
...Bestow Grace of the Champion, another level 4 paladin spell, could be another nice buff. It all hinges on caster level, NOT paladin level!
Just wanted to point out. I believe this says LG target only. Most groups I have seen only have LG if the guy is already a paladin and has all this anyway.
Wait... So you can pick up summon monster VIII (summoner) or dominate monster (bard, or summoner) at level 12 as a wizard and that's not op?No, he could pick up Dominate Monster (a 6th level summoner spell) at level 14 -- it becomes a level 7 spell for the Pathfinder Savant. It's still pretty sweet, but it's not quite as good as you're suggesting.As a wizard can cast these spells, esoteric magic's "treat them as 1 level higher" clause does not apply.
The intent, most likely, is that you cannot choose spells already on your class list... Though even that does not close all the issues.
Yup, they're still on your list, so there's no level increase. No idea if the intent was as you say...pretty sure it wasn't, but the PrC was written before Summoner (especially) and some of the other classes that get big spell level discounts were written. Before them, best you could manage for spell level reduction was like... -1 level on hideous laughter and greater dispel and -2 levels on irresistible dance (all from bard) and some other not so amazing deals.
I'd still rather have the added breadth of totally new and different spells (I <3 Contingency + Heal), but can see the appeal in line-jumping on spells you could eventually get anyway. Most of the -3 level examples seem to be enchantment, notably. Guess you could make a theme off that, someone focused on enchantment that gets early access to some high level swag.
Rember that they only have a limited number of spells to choose (six if memory serves). So they'll have a few of these uber spells, but not all. It makes a good themantic character with a few good tricks up their sleeve at the (minor) coost of a caster level.
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Also being able to use magic completion items at your caster level means that you are fairy covered when it comes to 2nd and lower level spells from any spell list. Can you scribe a scroll of a spell you don't know and don't have on your list at a -10 on your spell craft check because Pathfinder Savants have alot of spellcraft.
edit: you know Pathfinder savant is very batman. His utility belt holds everything.
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Unfortunately, scrolls, staves and potions require the spell to be on your spell list, while everything else you can take a penalty for the loss.
I've got an evoker built with 3 level of pathfinder savant and 1 cypher mage. Being able to crack out 2 scrolls a day for back up spells and casting them at your caster level is awesome. My current plan is to take my 5th level of evoker @ 11th to pick up Craft Staff and Staff like wand. This is truly the point when you've got the ultimate utility belt.
The intent, most likely, is that you cannot choose spells already on your class list... Though even that does not close all the issues.
Ah, I see; we just interpret that sentence differently. (I have no interest in discussing which interpretation is right or wrong.)
What is a Pathfinder Savant? I can not find it in the PRD.
thanks,
-- david
Papa.DRB
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Pathfinder Savant
Ah thanks! We are playing Core/APG only, but it looks interesting....
-- david
Papa.DRB
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Not to stir the pot but,...
Esoteric Magic: At each class level beyond 1st, the Pathfinder savant chooses a spell from any class’s spell list and thereafter treats it as if it were on the spell list of his base spellcasting classes; if his base class could not normally cast that spell, it is treated as 1 level higher. The spell’s type (arcane or divine) and save DCs function as normal for his base spellcasting class. All other restrictions of his normal spellcasting class apply. This ability does not allow other spellcasters to prepare, cast, or use spell trigger or spell completion items of esoteric spells (such as a sorcerer using a cure light wounds scroll).
The bold seems to indicate that he can pick spells that his base class could normally cast.
Every DM I've known to read this agrees, but your DM has the final rule for your game.