|
I seem to remember in the Gazateer, the Sun orchid elixer made one immortal.
In the Pathfindr RPG campaign setting book it mentions the Sun orchid elixer only adding on 1d4 years.
I don't know what it says in the Pathfinder Inner Sea guide..
I seem to remember in Death's Haratick it was hinted that the elixer extended a human's life 50 years.
So what does the Sun Orchid elixer do?
thanks
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Thanks, I just found it in the inner sea guide.
Wow it is powerful. not very useful for a gnome, but for an aging elf, dwarf, human or half elf, it it gives one a second life time.
ElyasRavenwood
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Apparently, part of the reason he's in trouble is that Thuvia hates him, and refuses to sell him the stuff. Which is actually a fun plot thread.
I find it funny that a 19th lvl Wizard-King is unable to hire a proxy to buy it for him.
If I were that proxy I'd be more worried about that 19th lvl Wizard that I'm about to piss off if I steal from him.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Everything is all fun and games, and then the marut comes for you...
|
|
If I were that proxy I'd be more worried about that 19th lvl Wizard that I'm about to piss off if I steal from him.
This Razmir fellow probably worries about it more than any proxies would. Any proxy he sends will need to be powerful enough to keep that gold safe (or protected by such persons). That worry is probably one reason he does not want to use a proxy.
|
This Razmir fellow probably worries about it more than any proxies would. Any proxy he sends will need to be powerful enough to keep that gold safe (or protected by such persons). That worry is probably one reason he does not want to use a proxy.
Yeah, Razmir would have to actually trust whoever he sent to do this. Trust them absolutely, with both money, power, and the secret (sinc needing the elixir punches holes in his claims of godhood). Do you think Razmir, LE master con-artist that he is, really trusts anyone close to that much?
I'm sure it's a no coincidence that he's a 19th lvl wizard and he'll probably stay that way.
Creative Director
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm sure it's a no coincidence that he's a 19th lvl wizard and he'll probably stay that way.Only until play starts. While the stats are static since the source material doesn't advance, it doesn't take a great leap to imagine that he can advance once tabletime hits. Artificially gimping NPCs is pretty lame.
Actually... he's not artificially gimped at all. For one thing... he's an NPC, not a PC. And that means that he doesn't automatically have access to every single option available to a PC whose player owns every book. It also means that he's not all-knowing and all-powerful; despite the fact that he's 19th level, he makes mistakes, and there are things he doesn't know about.
And then there's the fact that only PCs gain XP points anyway. How an NPC gains levels is up to the GM, but in my games, they don't level up until I say they do. A 1st level commoner can kill giant rats in the basement for a decade and not level up, as far as I'm concerned... but he might just level up when he manages to deliver a crop to market despite an unseasonable storm that almost ruins him.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
The Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting version might be easier to deal with, from a setting-effects standpoint.
Six doses are made per month, and if each just stops aging for 1d4 years, it's much less of a setting-changer than if the 72 richest people in the campaign setting essentially got an instant age reboot in a single year, followed by the next 72 richest people the next year, and so on, for the last 3500+ years (since the selling scheme was formalized in 1142).
Having aging suspended for 1d4 years also will result in the users still suffering from whatever current aging penalties they are dealing with, so that, if Razmir is well into Venerable, even a dose of the original Sun Orchid Elixir (obtained through proxy, or, more likely, stolen by agents hijacking a shipment being delivered to another rich patron, or even in Thuvia itself, in the desert between cities, as it is being transported to market) will merely stave off death from old age for 1d4, and do nothing to restore his vitality.
The new version of the elixir, especially if it is affecting 72 people a year, and has been for 35 centuries, would change the setting far more than pantheists clerics ever would. Few if any rulers of nations would die of old age, and the price would likely have plummeted over time, as anyone who wants it already had it (although they might save up to buy another dose fifty years later, unlike the PCCS version, which they'd have to buy again in 1d4 years...).
And, as for the immortality discovery, the quick fix for that is to make Razmir a Sorcerer. Between the seven Runelords, Geb, Nex, Old Mage Jatembe, etc. the setting is hardly lacking from a shortage of high level Wizards as legendary rulers. Surely, there's room for a ruling arcanist to be that oft-forgotten red-headed stepchild of casting classes, the Sorcerer.
I haven't read that book.
Does it specify that they sell each of the 6 monthly doses?
Wouldn't it make more sense (given the general economy of most places) that quite afew of those doses would be chugged by the folks making them and/or the muckity mucks in the gov't?
(only really matters for the reasons Set mentioned. You are talking about 72 people a year coming up with 50kgp every single year.. I know there are supposed to be adventururs but it seems like they would hit saturation pretty quick even with that..)
-S
For those concerned, the Inner Sea World Guide changed it from 6 doses/month of the weaker version to 6 doses/year of the good stuff. I still rather agree with Set's arguments, but it is best to keep the facts straight.
Also, Selgard, it is specifically stated that nobody in Thuvia is allowed to use the elixir, save the alchemist himself. If foreigners want to cheat death, that is fine. But Thuvia respects Pharasma's plan.
|
|
For those concerned, the Inner Sea World Guide changed it from 6 doses/month of the weaker version to 6 doses/year of the good stuff. I still rather agree with Set's arguments, but it is best to keep the facts straight.
I wondered if the amount produced had changed along with the effects of the elixir, but I didn't see any change in the Inner Sea World Guide (which I didn't read in it's entirety before posting) and it seemed to be produced in the same one month time, and require the same number of sun orchids (six), so I wasn't sure that the amount produced had also changed.
At six per year, it's certainly less disruptive, but Razmir has had fifty some years to get his hands on one of the 300 doses produced in that time, which seems not impossible, since elixirs are said to get stolen and go missing on occasion...
|
Creative Director
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, I don't think it's appropriate or interesting to have the NPCs remain static when they are taking the actions necessary to advance.
I actually agree 100%... with the "as a GM part." We are not GMs when we are creating these books though. We at Paizo are only when we run games for our players. There's a difference between setting down the setting rules for use in play and actually bringing them to life in the game... and it's not appropriate for us to take on those GM responsibilities by making those in game decisions for every GM.
Closest you'll get to seeing our products behave like GMs is an adventure. Look at any of our adventure paths and you'll see thatt hings aren't static in that way at all. For example, in Curse of the Crimson Throne and in Kingmaker...
If we ever do a significant adventure or AP about the Sun Orchid Elixir or Razmiran... you can bet we'll not leave them static either.
The argument that "he's an NPC, not a PC" is the kind gimping I'm talking about. Razimir most certainly should have access to all the same options that the PCs do. He could easily be the iconic wizard to take Immortality since his story is based on seeking it out, and him "not knowing" about that option is plainly silly and yet another form of gimping. He might fail to reach Wizard 20 through death, but if he gets there then it would seem to betray the character to not have him take Immortality.I'm sure it's a no coincidence that he's a 19th lvl wizard and he'll probably stay that way.Only until play starts. While the stats are static since the source material doesn't advance, it doesn't take a great leap to imagine that he can advance once tabletime hits. Artificially gimping NPCs is pretty lame.Actually... he's not artificially gimped at all. For one thing... he's an NPC, not a PC. And that means that he doesn't automatically have access to every single option available to a PC whose player owns every book. It also means that he's not all-knowing and all-powerful; despite the fact that he's 19th level, he makes mistakes, and there are things he doesn't know about.
And then there's the fact that only PCs gain XP points anyway. How an NPC gains levels is up to the GM, but in my games, they don't level up until I say they do. A 1st level commoner can kill giant rats in the basement for a decade and not level up, as far as I'm concerned... but he might just level up when he manages to deliver a crop to market despite an unseasonable storm that almost ruins him.
While I cannot say for certain, I would strongly suspect that the wizard level 20 Immortality and the alchemist level 20 Immortality are rather like the comparatively bargain-basement "become a lich" ritual in that they vary from individual to individual. One alchemist made Sun Orchid Elixir. Some wizard found the Peach of Immortality. Another ate a piece of mermaid flesh. And so on.
It is completely reasonable for a 19th level wizard to know that 20th level wizards have become Immortal, but knowing that and knowing how to do it are two different things. If he did know, he'd be a 20th level wizard already and probably immortal too, but he isn't yet so he's not.
Buying the sun orchid elixir is a cheat, but it should also be stressed that it's not true immortality for anyone but the alchemist who discovered the sun orchid elixir formula. Everyone else is just buying extra years for their lives. If the alchemist perishes, goes vacationing to other planes with Baba Yaga in her dancing hut, or otherwise disappears from Golarion, the immortality from sun orchid elixir is confined to a finite number of bottles left on hand. And while that number may count up to thousands of years, it will still eventually run out.
While I cannot say for certain, I would strongly suspect that the wizard level 20 Immortality and the alchemist level 20 Immortality are rather like the comparatively bargain-basement "become a lich" ritual in that they vary from individual to individual. One alchemist made Sun Orchid Elixir. Some wizard found the Peach of Immortality. Another ate a piece of mermaid flesh. And so on.
Nothing in their descriptions confirms what you're saying. It's quite simple really, you level to 20 - you become immortal. If you want to. There are no rituals involved. Both RAW and RAI, it works that way.
It's fine to make it so in your world, but as it is, there are no such rituals involved.
And that makes sense. Lichdom is a shortcut, since you can become a lich at 11th lvl (or was it 10th?) and there are far more spellcasters of 11th level than there are 20th lvl. For them it's easier to become undead than lvl 20.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
While I cannot say for certain, I would strongly suspect that the wizard level 20 Immortality and the alchemist level 20 Immortality are rather like the comparatively bargain-basement "become a lich" ritual in that they vary from individual to individual. One alchemist made Sun Orchid Elixir. Some wizard found the Peach of Immortality. Another ate a piece of mermaid flesh. And so on.Nothing in their descriptions confirms what you're saying. It's quite simple really, you level to 20 - you become immortal. If you want to. There are no rituals involved. Both RAW and RAI, it works that way.
It's fine to make it so in your world, but as it is, there are no such rituals involved.
And that makes sense. Lichdom is a shortcut, since you can become a lich at 11th lvl (or was it 10th?) and there are far more spellcasters of 11th level than there are 20th lvl. For them it's easier to become undead than lvl 20.
Um, no....
Grand Discovery (Su)
At 20th level, the alchemist makes a grand discovery. He immediately learns two normal discoveries, but also learns a third discovery chosen from the linked list below, representing a truly astounding alchemical breakthrough of significant import. For many alchemists, the promise of one of these grand discoveries is the primary goal of their experiments and hard work.
There's a lot of "experiments and hard work" before you make a "grand discovery," one of which is "Eternal Youth":
Eternal Youth
Prerequisite: Grand discovery
Benefit: The alchemist has discovered a cure for aging, and from this point forward he takes no penalty to his physical ability scores from advanced age. If the alchemist is already taking such penalties, they are removed at this time.
Not only are there a lot of experiments and failed formulae up to that point, but the RAW clearly states "a cure" for aging, as opposed to "the cure" for aging. So having one alchemist do it with sun orchids doesn't mean another couldn't do it with mermaid flesh or peaches or whatever. It's up to the GM.
It could also be that you get to 20th level and you suddenly discover you've stopped aging but you've no idea which of the hundreds of elixirs you've swilled in your career made you immortal, only that you are. But again, this is also up to the GM.
As for the wizard, I don't have the Immortality section handy, but I'm assuming that again this is another discovery that the wizard has been working on for a while and finally figures out once he gets to level 20. Like the spells he gets to add to his spellbook every level which don't magically appear so much as he is assumed to have been carefully researching them all the while and finally unraveled that arcane secret.
Actually the text for Immortality states that you discover a cure for aging, so any of the scenarios Kevin Andrew Murphy exposed is likely to be the path to immortality for some wizard.
The other thing to keep in mind is both Eternal Youth and Immortality both only say they remove the penalties for age. Neither state you don't die once you reach your maximum age. I believe, because neither explicitly states you don't die from aging, you still do die once you reach the GM rolled age for your character, as that would be RAW, but maybe not RAI.
The only method I know of that truly lets you become immortal, is the Living Monolith prestige class, and the Monk of the Four Winds. The Reincarnated Druid class comes close, but nothing in the text says that the Druid doesn't still die of old age. It specifically states that if she is killed, she is reincarnated as the spell, but dieing of old age and being killed are two different scenarios. Again, it's another RAW scenario, not RAI, I think, but the Living Monolith and Monk of the Four Winds specifically state they either no longer age, and the Monk goes further in that he is reincarnated even if he dies by violent means.
IMO, the Monk of the Four Winds is the best source of immortality because all he needs is a Restoration to remove the level penalty, and he reincarnates if killed again. The Living Monolith can be killed, through hit point lost, but he is immune to death effects and energy drain, and is my runner up for immortality. The Reincarnated Druid doesn't reincarnate if killed by a death effect and can't be raised, or resurrected, but can be reincarnated if he dies in the 7 day period after reincarnation or killed by a death effect.
The Immortality Arcane Discovery and the Eternal Youth Grand Discovery have inappropriate names because they are nothing more than anti-age penalties, not truly Immortality or Eternal Youth and there is an ioun stone that costs 4,000 gp that does the same thing as both of those 20th level abilities. Kind of worthless in my opinion.
If your GM allows 3rd party material, there is the Eternal template and the Pactbound Soul feat for immortality as well.
Phrasing oddities strike again.
Most abilities that halt aging while still having you die explicitly say so.
Both the Alchemist and the Wizard ones lack the language that specifically say they die and that specifically say they don't.
Compare it to the regular ole monk's Timeless Body, which specifically calls out they go ahead and croak
And the druid (which is the exact same thing)
Both specifically have the "you die at the end" restriction while the ones for the Alchemist and Wizard do not.
I would say that absent the language from the Core book that says they die, they wouldn't.
But it'd be difficult to argue the point with someone who disagreed because.. well.. it doesn't say you live forever either- and it really, really should.
Needs clarification.
-S
The other thing to keep in mind is both Eternal Youth and Immortality both only say they remove the penalties for age. Neither state you don't die once you reach your maximum age. I believe, because neither explicitly states you don't die from aging, you still do die once you reach the GM rolled age for your character, as that would be RAW, but maybe not RAI.
The only method I know of that truly lets you become immortal, is the Living Monolith prestige class, and the Monk of the Four Winds. The Reincarnated Druid class comes close, but nothing in the text says that the Druid doesn't still die of old age. It specifically states that if she is killed, she is reincarnated as the spell, but dieing of old age and being killed are two different scenarios. Again, it's another RAW scenario, not RAI, I think, but the Living Monolith and Monk of the Four Winds specifically state they either no longer age, and the Monk goes further in that he is reincarnated even if he dies by violent means.
IMO, the Monk of the Four Winds is the best source of immortality because all he needs is a Restoration to remove the level penalty, and he reincarnates if killed again. The Living Monolith can be killed, through hit point lost, but he is immune to death effects and energy drain, and is my runner up for immortality. The Reincarnated Druid doesn't reincarnate if killed by a death effect and can't be raised, or resurrected, but can be reincarnated if he dies in the 7 day period after reincarnation or killed by a death effect.
The Immortality Arcane Discovery and the Eternal Youth Grand Discovery have inappropriate names because they are nothing more than anti-age penalties, not truly Immortality or Eternal Youth and there is an ioun stone that costs 4,000 gp that does the same thing as both of those 20th level abilities. Kind of worthless in my opinion.
If your GM allows 3rd party material, there is the Eternal template and the...
Don't forget the 20th level Oracle of the Heavens (Or any Enlightened Philosopher Oracle at lvl 20)
They also get continually reborn whenever they would die. With fewer conditions than the Monk of the Four Winds too.
They are named appropriately. Your assumption that you still have a maximum age is incorrect. I was rudely informed of this on these boards when I asked a similar question about whether or not these allowed one to ignore maximum age.
The Immortality Arcane Discovery and the Eternal Youth Grand Discovery have inappropriate names because they are nothing more than anti-age penalties, not truly Immortality or Eternal Youth and there is an ioun stone that costs 4,000 gp that does the same thing as both of those 20th level abilities. Kind of worthless in my opinion.
Who rudely informed you and can I get a link? I was thinking of taking the Immortality discovery for my wizard until I really read it and realized it doesn't state I don't die of old age. If he makes it to 20, I'd like to be able to keep him around forever as an NPC without just 'making it so'.
on't forget the 20th level Oracle of the Heavens (Or any Enlightened Philosopher Oracle at lvl 20)
They also get continually reborn whenever they would die. With fewer conditions than the Monk of the Four Winds too.
I wasn't aware of these options, truthfully, as I'm not much a fan of spontaneous casters and mostly glanced over the Oracle for the basic properties of the class.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
If you don't age, it's rather hard for you to die of old age unless the rules explicitly state that you do.
All the alchemist and wizard folklore about immortal alchemists and wizards doesn't have them croaking suddenly despite looking young and pretty. They get to go on forever like Nicholas Flamel or Merlin.
|
|
If you don't age, it's rather hard for you to die of old age unless the rules explicitly state that you do.
All the alchemist and wizard folklore about immortal alchemists and wizards doesn't have them croaking suddenly despite looking young and pretty. They get to go on forever like Nicholas Flamel or Merlin.
Although the image of the animator suddenly suffering a fatal heart attack would be a fine visual for that sort of thing.
"Lah-de-day, I'm immortal, wonder what I'm gonna have for supp... Urk!" <thud>
If you don't age, it's rather hard for you to die of old age unless the rules explicitly state that you do.
All the alchemist and wizard folklore about immortal alchemists and wizards doesn't have them croaking suddenly despite looking young and pretty. They get to go on forever like Nicholas Flamel or Merlin.
See that's the thing, it doesn't say you stop aging. It simply states you stop accumulating age penalties and any penalties you already have are removed. However, because it doesn't state otherwise, you would still accumulate age bonuses. Because the ability doesn't state otherwise, all other rules still apply, so your character still ages, and he still dies of old age when the time comes. You will just look young and vibrant when you do finally die. The Monk and the Monolith specifically state they no longer age, meaning they no longer accumulate penalties, nor do they accumulate bonuses either. Neither one of them have a maximum age, so they could live forever until slain, at which point the Monk reincarnates and the Monolith is dead.
Also, Merlin doesn't live forever, he is killed in most stories by being trapped in a cave, by a women, the identity of which changes depending on the version you read, though the most common one is Nimue, or the so-called Lady of the Lake. Nicholas Flamel used the Philospher's Stone to give himself eternal youth, but since D&D changed the properties of the Philospher's Stone, the method that Nicholas Flamel most accurately defies death is through the Sun Orchid Elixir, which is different from the Grand Discovery of the Alchemist in that the Elixir actually restores someone to their youthful body, postponing their day with death, while the Discovery simply removes aging penalties, but not postponing their natural death.
If you don't age, it's rather hard for you to die of old age unless the rules explicitly state that you do.
All the alchemist and wizard folklore about immortal alchemists and wizards doesn't have them croaking suddenly despite looking young and pretty. They get to go on forever like Nicholas Flamel or Merlin.
See that's the thing, it doesn't say you stop aging. It simply states you stop accumulating age penalties and any penalties you already have are removed. However, because it doesn't state otherwise, you would still accumulate age bonuses. Because the ability doesn't state otherwise, all other rules still apply, so your character still ages, and he still dies of old age when the time comes. You will just look young and vibrant when you do finally die. The Monk and the Monolith specifically state they no longer age, meaning they no longer accumulate penalties, nor do they accumulate bonuses either. Neither one of them have a maximum age, so they could live forever until slain, at which point the Monk reincarnates and the Monolith is dead.
Also, Merlin doesn't live forever, he is killed in most stories by being trapped in a cave, by a women, the identity of which changes depending on the version you read, though the most common one is Nimue, or the so-called Lady of the Lake. Nicholas Flamel used the Philospher's Stone to give himself eternal youth, but since D&D changed the properties of the Philospher's Stone, the method that Nicholas Flamel most accurately defies death is through the Sun Orchid Elixir, which is different from the Grand Discovery of the Alchemist in that the Elixir actually restores someone to their youthful body, postponing their day with death, while the Discovery simply removes aging penalties, but not postponing their natural death.
The alchemist ability very specifically says that it's a "cure for aging." If it doesn't cure the biggest problem of aging, that keeling over and dieing part, then it's not much of a cure, and it's also false advertising to call it "Eternal Youth."
If you have a time bomb that blows up when the hands reach midnight, but you turn the hands back to three and then bolt them there, the bomb is not going to blow up no matter how much time passes.
"Eternal Youth" and "Immortality" are better than "Timeless Body" for this reason.
If you don't age, it's rather hard for you to die of old age unless the rules explicitly state that you do...See that's the thing, it doesn't say you stop aging. It simply states you stop accumulating age penalties and any penalties you already have are removed. However, because it doesn't state otherwise, you would still accumulate age bonuses. Because the ability doesn't state ....The alchemist ability very specifically says that it's a "cure for aging." If it doesn't cure the biggest problem of aging, that keeling over and dieing part, then it's not much of a cure, and it's also false advertising to call it "Eternal Youth."
If you have a time bomb that blows up when the hands reach midnight, but you turn the hands back to three and then bolt them there, the bomb is not going to blow up no matter how much time passes.
"Eternal Youth" and "Immortality" are better than "Timeless Body" for this reason.
I agree, that's how the abilities are 'supposed' to work, but fluff text, the cure for aging, isn't mechanics. The mechanics say, "No age penalties" they don't say "No death from old age". If an ability alters the normal mechanics of the game, it has to specifically say what mechanics it alters, if it doesn't state it alters something, than the normal mechanics apply. Look at archetypes for example, they don't state what class abilities are NOT affected by the archetype, only the class abilities that ARE affected, any ability not specifically mentioned as being changed in the archetype, functions normally.
Personally, I'm all for Eternal Youth and Immortality functioning as their names do, I'm simply pointing out the mechanics of the abilities do not match the name of the ability. Immortality doesn't actually grant immortality, it simply prevents age penalties, where as the Monk of the Four Winds' 20th level ability, Immortality, actually grants Immortality. The Monk of the Four Winds states that the Monk stops aging and stays in the same age category forever, and should the Monk die for whatever reason, he is spontaneously reincarnated.
Fortunately, we don't have to worry about this for PFS because games don't last that long. I'm sure just about every GM would rule that Eternal Youth actually grants Eternal Youth, and Immortality grants Immortality. Like I said before, RAW, they don't work as named, and I wouldn't mind a rewording of the text in a future errata or reprinting so they work as Intended.
|
|
While I cannot say for certain, I would strongly suspect that the wizard level 20 Immortality and the alchemist level 20 Immortality are rather like the comparatively bargain-basement "become a lich" ritual in that they vary from individual to individual. One alchemist made Sun Orchid Elixir. Some wizard found the Peach of Immortality. Another ate a piece of mermaid flesh. And so on.Nothing in their descriptions confirms what you're saying. It's quite simple really, you level to 20 - you become immortal. If you want to. There are no rituals involved. Both RAW and RAI, it works that way.
It's fine to make it so in your world, but as it is, there are no such rituals involved.
And that makes sense. Lichdom is a shortcut, since you can become a lich at 11th lvl (or was it 10th?) and there are far more spellcasters of 11th level than there are 20th lvl. For them it's easier to become undead than lvl 20.
Trollkiller dog, I would have to disagree with your assertion that
when you reach 20 level for a wizzard, you become immortal......both Raw and Rai it works that way.
First off if a player in a campaign i was GMing presented me with that arguement, I would use my GM fiat to toss it out the window. Pass up a huge adventure hook? No way. Gaining immortality is the stuff of epics......heck Gilgamesh tried to become immortal!....its a story as old as well story telling.
I don't know what type of games you play but Pathfinder doesn't really support actual gaming at level 20, let alone past it. All APs end way before that, so even if someone does reach that level (I haven't read any such case here on boards), disallowing them from gaining their capstone ability (that most classes get automatically) accomplishes nothing. And how often will immortality come into actual play? Most people want it just so they can say that one PC they had became immortal, it's not like campaigns that span hundreds of years are really that common.
Gaining immortality is the stuff of epics
And getting to level 20 isn't? If someone does actually make it, why use some arbitrary DM fiat just to mess with them?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It was said in the ASK James Thread that Eternal Youth and Immortality allow you to keep going until violence or disease gets you.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I agree, that's how the abilities are 'supposed' to work, but fluff text, the cure for aging, isn't mechanics.If you don't age, it's rather hard for you to die of old age unless the rules explicitly state that you do...See that's the thing, it doesn't say you stop aging. It simply states you stop accumulating age penalties and any penalties you already have are removed. However, because it doesn't state otherwise, you would still accumulate age bonuses. Because the ability doesn't state ....The alchemist ability very specifically says that it's a "cure for aging." If it doesn't cure the biggest problem of aging, that keeling over and dieing part, then it's not much of a cure, and it's also false advertising to call it "Eternal Youth."
If you have a time bomb that blows up when the hands reach midnight, but you turn the hands back to three and then bolt them there, the bomb is not going to blow up no matter how much time passes.
"Eternal Youth" and "Immortality" are better than "Timeless Body" for this reason.
It is in my world. I've been playing since 1st edition and I'm quite comfortable with rules being presented outside of a stat block requiring no more interpretation than basic English language comprehension.
Interpreting the flavor text as snake oil promises and advertising lies and only the stat block as the true rules? That way lies madness.
Following the RAW, if I pack 1000 candles into a square and light them all, they collectively shed no more illumination than 1 candle. Reality says this is nonsense.
Mechanics are written to settle most simple questions. While 2-3 candles might shed more light than 1 candle, it's not appreciable enough to make a rules distinction. But just because there is no rule written up that deals with how much illumination is shed by 1000 candles doesn't mean there shouldn't be or that the laws of physics and logic have somehow been suspended.
So lets say the witch uses Baleful Polymorph to turn someone into a toad. The player whose character is now a toad now wants to do stuff as a toad, like eat the fly that the witch has been turned into because her next victim had a ring of spell turning. So you pull up the toad statblock but find that they forgot to put in any special abilities like sticky prehensile tongues. Can the toad even do that? Can the fly fly or walk on glass with suction cup feet because we don't have a stat block for that? Or even if we find the stat block for a giant fly and extrapolate what it would be for a normal fly, there's no suction cup feet special ability listed. Does that work?
I'd say it does because the mechanics are just there to answer common questions. If I turn someone into a toad, then it has a sticky fly-catching tongue regardless of if some mechanic specifically says it does. Similarly, if alchemy gives you a "cure for aging" and "eternal youth," then the power does exactly what it says on the tin unless there's some specific mechanic that says otherwise.
One of the only places that I can see immortality/longevity actually being useful mechanically and not just a "bragging rights" reward is a Kingmaker-style game where kingdom turns are 1 month each and the years really add up.
Don't like the neighboring king, but also don't want to risk a long and drawn-out war? Simply wait to outlive him and make peace with his children!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of the only places that I can see immortality/longevity actually being useful mechanically and not just a "bragging rights" reward is a Kingmaker-style game where kingdom turns are 1 month each and the years really add up.
Don't like the neighboring king, but also don't want to risk a long and drawn-out war? Simply wait to outlive him and make peace with his children!
But then you run into the problem of having too many title claimants running around.
Because let's face it, a king's got needs, and when you're an eternally-youthful hunk with power there's gonna be plenty of girls willing to satisfy those needs, and sometimes those needs results in precious little crying mistakes.
For the good of the Realm you might as well raise one hell of an heir, marry off your sons and daughters to neighboring kings to strengthen the alliances, and then just hand the crown over to your heir and strike off for parts unknown.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
One of the only places that I can see immortality/longevity actually being useful mechanically and not just a "bragging rights" reward is a Kingmaker-style game where kingdom turns are 1 month each and the years really add up.
Don't like the neighboring king, but also don't want to risk a long and drawn-out war? Simply wait to outlive him and make peace with his children!
But then you run into the problem of having too many title claimants running around.
Because let's face it, a king's got needs, and when you're an eternally-youthful hunk with power there's gonna be plenty of girls willing to satisfy those needs, and sometimes those needs results in precious little crying mistakes.
For the good of the Realm you might as well raise one hell of an heir, marry off your sons and daughters to neighboring kings to strengthen the alliances, and then just hand the crown over to your heir and strike off for parts unknown.
Wizards are smart, I'm sure they secured a draught of Night Tea for the ladies in question first.
Intelligence IS the main stat for Wizards, after all...