Complete Newbie Questions - Skills


Rules Questions


Hi, I'm completely new to Pathfinder. Haven't played 3e or 3.5e either so this is all new to me. (I'm an old 1e player).

A couple of people are planning on starting a Pathfinder game so I'm in the process of trying to generate a character for it.

As such, I anticipate having a bunch of questions as I go.

My first set of questions revolve around skills.

Okay, a class gets x number of skill points per level and that is modified by his intelligence bonus. I get that.

I also get the fact that each class has a list of class skills.

Does that mean I can only spend my skill points on those class skills or can I spend them on any skill I want?

If the latter, is the only difference between a class skill and a non-class skill the +3 bonus that class skills give when you add a point to it initially?

Question about UMD. I think I understand but I'm not wholly certain. From what I ascertain, a character can use a wand normally if the wand contains a spell from that character class spell list. But, if the wand doesn't... is that when the UMD check comes in?

So, I notice that the Magus has UMD as a class skill meaning that it's a skill he should at least think about taking because he might want to use it to cast wand spells that aren't on his spell list.

A wizard, on the other hand, doesn't have it as a class skill presumably because the wizard spell list is assumed to know all of the wizard spells and thus wouldn't need UMD. Is that a correct assumption?

How about if a wizard wanted to cast a cleric spell from a wand. Would he need to make a UMD check?

Also regarding wands in general. It says that you can use a wand to cast a spell that is on your spell list. Can you use a wand to cast a spell higher level than you have access to if it's on the class spell list or is it limited to spells that you can actually cast?

Finally, I'm planning on going with a magus/ninja multiclass combination. I notice ninjas (like rogues) have UMD as a class skill. If I were only interested in using a wand to cast spells from a magus spell list, would I need to make a UMD check as a ninja if I was multi-classed with magus?

Grand Lodge

You can spend your skill points on any skill (but only one rank per level).

You can use Use Magic Device to activate a wand if you don't have the spell on your class list. The skill works very much the same for a wizard or a magus, except that the magus's spell list is smaller. I'd say the designers gave the magus UMD as a class skill essentially for flavour purposes, since he's meant to be a bit more of a roguish, experimental partial caster.

A wizard could use UMD to activate a wand of a spell that's on the cleric list, but not the wizard list.

If the spell in a wand is on your class list, you don't have to know the spell or be high enough level to cast it (or to cast any spells at all, in the case of a class that doesn't get spells until higher levels).

When you're multiclassed, you can use a wand if the spell is on any of your class spell lists.


Starglim wrote:
You can spend your skill points on any skill (but only one rank per level).

Oh, does that mean that at 2nd level, I couldn't add two points to a skill I didn't allocate any points to previously?

Thank you for the clarifications on UMD. I found those very helpful.

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

Since there are a number of questions here, I'm going to go line-by-line.

thalion wrote:

Okay, a class gets x number of skill points per level and that is modified by his intelligence bonus. I get that.

I also get the fact that each class has a list of class skills.

Does that mean I can only spend my skill points on those class skills or can I spend them on any skill I want?

If the latter, is the only difference between a class skill and a non-class skill the +3 bonus that class skills give when you add a point to it initially?

You can spend the skill points on any skill, and you are correct that the only difference is that you get a +3 bonus when you put a rank in a class skill. Furthermore, if you later multiclass, and thus one of your skills *becomes* a class skill, you then immediately get the +3 bonus if you have a rank in the skill -- even if you put that rank in while you were a different class.

thalion wrote:
Question about UMD. I think I understand but I'm not wholly certain. From what I ascertain, a character can use a wand normally if the wand contains a spell from that character class spell list. But, if the wand doesn't... is that when the UMD check comes in?

That is correct.

thalion wrote:

So, I notice that the Magus has UMD as a class skill meaning that it's a skill he should at least think about taking because he might want to use it to cast wand spells that aren't on his spell list.

A wizard, on the other hand, doesn't have it as a class skill presumably because the wizard spell list is assumed to know all of the wizard spells and thus wouldn't need UMD. Is that a correct assumption?

I can't read the designer's mind, but that seems like it might be a reasonable assumption.

thalion wrote:
How about if a wizard wanted to cast a cleric spell from a wand. Would he need to make a UMD check?

Yes. (Unless the spell were on both the Cleric and Wizard lists, of course, in which case he would not need to make a check.)

thalion wrote:
Also regarding wands in general. It says that you can use a wand to cast a spell that is on your spell list. Can you use a wand to cast a spell higher level than you have access to if it's on the class spell list or is it limited to spells that you can actually cast?

Yes. As long as the spell is on your class spell list, you can use a wand without needing to make a check. You can even do this if you haven't actually learned how to cast spells yet (for example, a Paladin can use a Wand of Cure Light Wounds at 1st level, even though he doesn't get *any* spells until 4th level!

thalion wrote:
Finally, I'm planning on going with a magus/ninja multiclass combination. I notice ninjas (like rogues) have UMD as a class skill. If I were only interested in using a wand to cast spells from a magus spell list, would I need to make a UMD check as a ninja if I was multi-classed with magus?

Nope. If any of your classes have the spell on its class list, then your character can use a wand without needing to make a UMD check. The only reason you might want to take the skill is if you were wanting to start out with a few levels of ninja and wanted to use Magus wands before you took your first level in Magus. Or, of course, if you wanted to use the skill to use wands of spells that are not on the Magus list.

I hope that helps! Please feel free to ask for more clarification if any of these answers are confusing (or if you run into anything else you need help with)!

Happy gaming!

Sczarni RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

thalion wrote:
Starglim wrote:
You can spend your skill points on any skill (but only one rank per level).

Oh, does that mean that at 2nd level, I couldn't add two points to a skill I didn't allocate any points to previously?

Thank you for the clarifications on UMD. I found those very helpful.

No, you can spend as many points as you like (or as many as you have) on any skill when you level up, so long as your total ranks in that skill do not exceed your level. So if you were leveling from level 2 to 3, and you get 4 skill points per level and want to suddenly learn (for example) Spellcraft, you could put up to three ranks into the skill, because you are now a 3rd level character. The 4th skill point would have to go into another skill.

Liberty's Edge

thalion wrote:
Starglim wrote:
You can spend your skill points on any skill (but only one rank per level).

Oh, does that mean that at 2nd level, I couldn't add two points to a skill I didn't allocate any points to previously?

Thank you for the clarifications on UMD. I found those very helpful.

Your skill ranks in a skill are limited by your level. You can spend as many in any skill you'd like, as long as the total ranks you have in that skill doesn't go above your level.

So, 5th level 18-Int Wizard decides to pick up Acrobatics? He can pump up to 5 ranks in there, out of his 6 ranks he gets at 5th level.


Thanks everyone!

Grand Lodge

Be aware that all skills can be used by any class except for skills marked with an "*"

An "*" denotes a skill that cannot be used unless it's a class skill MUST have a rank in it in order to use it.

Liberty's Edge

LFDPrivateer wrote:

Be aware that all skills can be used by any class except for skills marked with an "*"

An "*" denotes a skill that cannot be used unless it's a class skill MUST have a rank in it in order to use it.

Actually, it only needs to have a rank in it. It doesn't need to be a class skill.

Grand Lodge

Austin Morgan wrote:


Actually, it only needs to have a rank in it. It doesn't need to be a class skill.

My apologies, you are correct.

Skills marked with an "*" cannot be used unless a rank has been applied.

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