Dear Paizo, please look into buying the D&D brand if possible


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

If only some wise man we all respect would drop by and remind us that edition warring is still boring and pointless. That would put a stop to it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

anyways, checked out comments elsewhere on the subject. Something about bringing back the spirit of 1st & 2nd editions.

Theres an idea. Now heroes are almost like monsters. With that i mean the brancing out minimagical abilities. Some guy shadowwalks, the next creates water..

In the old times it was only the monsters that had magical abilities. Oh and wizzies and templarknights, but those could cast just a time a day. Meanwhile real heroes met evil magic monsters with (magical) swords.
Now im not saying the cantrip system is bad, on the contrary.
What i am saying is that semi-regular fighters and rouges etc should not have magic. Except as rings and amulets.
Grittier, sure.. But heroes arent special because its easy :D


ikki3520 wrote:

5e just shows they realize a big mistake was made.

That listening to the customers just might have been a good idea afterall...

They listened to their customers. They just didn't pay enough attention to the ones you wanted them to pay attention to.

You - and those who have preferences similar to yours - are not the only customer that matters.


ikki3520 wrote:

anyways, checked out comments elsewhere on the subject. Something about bringing back the spirit of 1st & 2nd editions.

Theres an idea. Now heroes are almost like monsters. With that i mean the brancing out minimagical abilities. Some guy shadowwalks, the next creates water..

In the old times it was only the monsters that had magical abilities. Oh and wizzies and templarknights, but those could cast just a time a day. Meanwhile real heroes met evil magic monsters with (magical) swords.
Now im not saying the cantrip system is bad, on the contrary.
What i am saying is that semi-regular fighters and rouges etc should not have magic. Except as rings and amulets.
Grittier, sure.. But heroes arent special because its easy :D

I very much doubt D&D will be returning to the days of fighters-can't-have-nice-things. We've moved past that.


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Scott Betts wrote:
Chuck Wright wrote:

It makes a difference in the point you were refuting. The folks who own Pathfinder have a personal interest in the property.

Hasbro could also shut down the pen and paper side of D&D with very broad, non-micro-managing strokes as well.

So it's my thought that it matters more than you feel it does.

It matters potentially, I suppose. But we don't have any evidence to date of Hasbro's direct micromanagement negatively impacting the direction and design of the game.

You say that the folks who own Pathfinder have a personal interest in the property. That's great. But I think it's more important (much more) that the people who make Pathfinder have a personal interest in the property. And that holds true for the people making D&D as well. As long as the guys who own the property are content to let the guys running it do it the way they think is best, I don't see any reason to make a stink. All of this just looks like baseless "Ha$bro"/WotC-bashing to me.

Is it really so hard to accept that the things some people don't like about 4e are maybe just maybe the result of legitimate design decisions on the part of professionals who are every bit as passionate about the game as you are (and probably moreso)?

You can't even get near the design or R&D payroll of WotC without being a more hardcore gamer than probably 90% of the people on this forum.

I think there are two different discussions here. Hasbro could (and I stress could there is no sign that they are going to) cut the WotC RPG division and not bat an eye. It probably wouldn't even be noticeable on Hasbro quarterly report. If Paizo on the other hand cut the RPG department, uhm... No more Paizo. ;) That I believe is Chuck's point.

Now Scott you have a very good point that from a game side it matters more how much the developers, designers, editors, etc care about what they are working on.

I, hope both companies are successful in there future endeavors, although most of my money will probably continue to go to Paizo.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:
ikki3520 wrote:

anyways, checked out comments elsewhere on the subject. Something about bringing back the spirit of 1st & 2nd editions.

Theres an idea. Now heroes are almost like monsters. With that i mean the brancing out minimagical abilities. Some guy shadowwalks, the next creates water..

In the old times it was only the monsters that had magical abilities. Oh and wizzies and templarknights, but those could cast just a time a day. Meanwhile real heroes met evil magic monsters with (magical) swords.
Now im not saying the cantrip system is bad, on the contrary.
What i am saying is that semi-regular fighters and rouges etc should not have magic. Except as rings and amulets.
Grittier, sure.. But heroes arent special because its easy :D

I very much doubt D&D will be returning to the days of fighters-can't-have-nice-things. We've moved past that.

That's true! We've been in the "everybody has the same things" for the last 4 years. :P


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Scott Betts wrote:


I very much doubt D&D will be returning to the days of fighters-can't-have-nice-things. We've moved past that.

It helps that we were never truly there save in overblown edition warring rhetoric.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I don't doubt that the people who are actually writing the books truly love D&D and take pride and care for their work. The issue is that the people who hold the purse strings don't. Hasbro says, "You have to make X amount of money a year or we'll mothball you for 10 years like GIJoe and Transformers." And WotC has to sell X amount of books within Y time to even come close.

SO what happens is that production times do down and volume goes up. If you are producing more products in less time quality must come down. The core rule books for 5E will likely have a good long production time, but I doubt that this will hold after that. D&D has to meet it's sales projections to stay active.

Don't get me wrong, Paizo does need to make a profit but there are no artificial benchmarks set by people who are unfamiliar with the PnP market.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

Steve Geddes wrote:
If only some wise man we all respect would drop by and remind us that edition warring is still boring and pointless. That would put a stop to it.

Santa Claus?

Chuck Norris?

Ben "Best President Ever" Franklin?!?!?!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

/me hurls a concussion d20 into the well populated crowd of forum posters.

When the smoke clears, a few slowly rise and groggily get back to their keyboards. Behind their soot covered monitors, small blue creatures in white pants peer over their screens slowly and begin to smile. One of them has a Paizo Golem coat of arms emblazoned on his cap. He quickly balances atop the monitor and adopts a superhero-like pose. "You will love thy fellow poster or suffer the Smurfequences!"


Pathfinder Companion, Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Sebastian wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
If only some wise man we all respect would drop by and remind us that edition warring is still boring and pointless. That would put a stop to it.

Santa Claus?

Chuck Norris?

Ben "Best President Ever" Franklin?!?!?!

Obviously my cousin is the answer.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Gary Teter wrote:
noretoc wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
You can't even get near the design or R&D payroll of WotC without being a more hardcore gamer than probably 90% of the people on this forum.
Source? I've seen no evidence of this.
Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but impugning the reputation/gamer cred of the people who work at Wizards really isn't cool.

I don't doubt thier gamer cred at all. I just don't like that a poster was being told that he should be careful of posting his opinions without facts, by somone who was backing up that statement with opinion, not facts.

Kend of a ... "His opinion is just as important as yours" statement.


Ben Franklin was never president.

Shadow Lodge

Pathfinder Card Game, Companion, Lost Omens, Maps, Pawns, Rulebook Subscriber
Bob_Loblaw wrote:
Ben Franklin was never president.

the OP never said "President of the US". Perhaps he was referring to Franklin's role as the first president of the American Philosophical Society. Or perhaps he's (another) fan of Mike Resnick's Anthology "Alternate Presidents".


I assumed it was a joke when he said Ben "best president ever" Franklin.

Ben Franklin never was a US President but he still gets his face on paper money.

Dark Archive Bella Sara Charter Superscriber

And he invented electricity and is on Mount Rushmore.

Best.

President.

Ever.


I hear that in some corners of the internet, the edition wars between Mage: The Ascension Revised and Mage: The Ascension 2nd edition still smolder.


noretoc wrote:
Gary Teter wrote:
noretoc wrote:
Scott Betts wrote:
You can't even get near the design or R&D payroll of WotC without being a more hardcore gamer than probably 90% of the people on this forum.
Source? I've seen no evidence of this.
Maybe I'm misreading your comment, but impugning the reputation/gamer cred of the people who work at Wizards really isn't cool.

I don't doubt thier gamer cred at all. I just don't like that a poster was being told that he should be careful of posting his opinions without facts, by somone who was backing up that statement with opinion, not facts.

Kend of a ... "His opinion is just as important as yours" statement.

Not all opinions are created equal.

That said, my line about the hardcore-ness of the D&D R&D and design teams was perhaps hyperbole, but only to illustrate how ridiculous it is to accuse the people who make Dungeons & Dragons of not loving Dungeons & Dragons. I've heard WotC staff say a couple of times that no one there is really there for the money - they could put their skills to use elsewhere and probably receive better pay. They're there because they want to be able to say that they had a hand in creating Dungeons & Dragons, or some other equally emotionally-motivated reason.

I daresay Paizo's staff shares similar qualities.


Justin Franklin wrote:
I think there are two different discussions here. Hasbro could (and I stress could there is no sign that they are going to) cut the WotC RPG division and not bat an eye. It probably wouldn't even be noticeable on Hasbro quarterly report. If Paizo on the other hand cut the RPG department, uhm... No more Paizo. ;) That I believe is Chuck's point.

If Chuck's argument is simply that Hasbro can afford to shut down D&D while Paizo cannot afford to shut down Pathfinder, then yes, that's probably true.

Paizo Employee Chief Creative Officer, Publisher

This is turning into a boring edition war, with the same BS from the same cast of characters.

Enough.

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