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And then I was slain by an Elf.
As a side note, I am a total noob (1 session GMed, none played)
So when someone chimes in with a question like "Can I play the same scenario with a different character?" I actually enjoy answering.Well, can you?
You can replay all you want .... but you only get one chronicle .. the first time you play the scenario
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Nope, play once, run once.
So when someone chimes in with a question like "Can I play the same scenario with a different character?" I actually enjoy answering.Well, can you?
Sorry, Greg, wrong answer.
You can gain credit for a scenario twice, once as a GM, once as a player, for different PCs.
If, for some reason, you are available, and a table is going to run short without you for a scenario you have already played for credit, you can replay it, not for credit, with either one of your regular PFS PCs, or a pregen.
Note that there is one oddity in the rules, which is that, if you do this with one of your own PCs, any items used, effects incurred, death, etc. are going to actually affect your PC, you just can't earn any gold/PP/boons/etc. for the replay.
You also need to make sure you don't spoil the scenario for the other players, but that also holds true if you play a scenario after you've GMed it, so...
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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And everybody seems to have forgotten that you can play the Intro scenarios as many times as you like, for credit, though this special-case exemption is only applicable to first-level characters (and you can still only play any particular scenario once with each character).
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And everybody seems to have forgotten that you can play the Intro scenarios as many times as you like, for credit, though this special-case exemption is only applicable to first-level characters (and you can still only play any particular scenario once with each character).
I thought about it. After I did my last post.
And there are is another exception: Level 1 modules, which can be played for credit (GMed for credit?) once for a 2nd level PC, but played/GMed for credit any number of times with a first level PC (individual PCs, rather, no credit for the same scenario/module to the same PC twice).
Scenarios (Level 1 only):
First Steps, Part 1: In Service to Lore
First Steps, Part 2: To Delve the Dungeon Deep
First Steps, Part 3: A Vison of Betrayal
Modules (Level 1, 2 once):
The Godsmouth Heresy
Crypt of the Everflame
Master of the Fallen Fortress
Unsure, because it uses some special rules:
We Be Goblins!
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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And everybody seems to have forgotten that you can play the Intro scenarios as many times as you like, for credit, though this special-case exemption is only applicable to first-level characters (and you can still only play any particular scenario once with each character).I thought about it. After I did my last post.
And there are is another exception: Level 1 modules ...
Yeah. I thought I'd mentioned them (which is why I pointed out the limitation to first-level characters; obviously you can't play a 2nd-level character in a scenario that's for level 1 characters only). Initially I'd said Intro scenarios & modules, but that seems to have ended up on the cutting room floor.
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Yeah. I thought I'd mentioned them (which is why I pointed out the limitation to first-level characters; obviously you can't play a 2nd-level character in a scenario that's for level 1 characters only). Initially I'd said Intro scenarios & modules, but that seems to have ended up on the cutting room floor.And everybody seems to have forgotten that you can play the Intro scenarios as many times as you like, for credit, though this special-case exemption is only applicable to first-level characters (and you can still only play any particular scenario once with each character).I thought about it. After I did my last post.
And there are is another exception: Level 1 modules ...
Actually, PFS rules for modules allows for playing a 2nd level PC in a level 1 module:
If possible, all players must use an existing Pathfinder
Society character (without modification) within 1 level
of the module’s starting level.
So, for a Level 1 module, PCs can be level 1-2, since there are no 0 level PCs...
The only limitation is that you can only get credit for one 2nd level PC played per level 1 module.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Actually, PFS rules for modules allows for playing a 2nd level PC in a level 1 moduleYeah. I thought I'd mentioned them (which is why I pointed out the limitation to first-level characters; obviously you can't play a 2nd-level character in a scenario that's for level 1 characters only). Initially I'd said Intro scenarios & modules, but that seems to have ended up on the cutting room floor.And everybody seems to have forgotten that you can play the Intro scenarios as many times as you like, for credit, though this special-case exemption is only applicable to first-level characters (and you can still only play any particular scenario once with each character).I thought about it. After I did my last post.
And there are is another exception: Level 1 modules ...
That's the point I was trying (and, apparently, failing) to make. If all we are talking about is the First Steps intro scenarios (explicitly limited to level one characters only), my aside about things only being applicable to first-level characters would be unnecessary.
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In the beginning I loved Paizo for their commitment and loyalty. I would have followed them anywhere. Somewhere along the line they lost that loyalty and fired two of the best three employees they've ever had. That just doesn't sit well with me, so I don't allow myself to support them much.
For the record, I don't believe Josh or Hyrum were fired. I believe they quit.
I don't think I can make you love Paizo for pointing this out, but maybe you'll hate them less?
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I went from running 3 to 4 games a month for PFS to maybe once a month. Here is why:
1. The only place I can host is a FLGS, and I have no control over who shows up. (the rollpalyers have chased away the roleplayers)
2. Lack of quality GM's in case a second table needs to be opened. Last year we almost needed a 3rd table for our weekly games, but I allowed anyone who wanted to try to GM run a game and wow that was a mistake.
3. I'm uninspired/uninterested by season 3 scenarios. Nothing against the Dragon Empires but I'm struggling to find any interest in the metaplot if nothing we the players do affects the outcome.
4. Minmax epidemic... nothing like going to a convention and getting laughed at (literally at multiple tables) because I built a balanced character and tried to roleplay my character.
Thankfully with Wisconsin now having a very active Venture Captain & Lieutenant my interest in continuing with PFS has increased to the point I am attending GaryCon this week.
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nothing like going to a convention and getting laughed at (literally at multiple tables) because I built a balanced character and tried to roleplay my character
I hope that this was an isolated occurrence. I have found that most players don't sweat other player-characters much and enjoy any opportunity to role-play. I know I do. The only character I remember ever laughing at was the cleric who forgot to acquire a holy symbol. And I took the opportunity to make fun of him in front of the entire "class." :-) But it was all in good fun.
You are welcome to role-play at my table anytime and I wish you luck at GaryCon. Wish I could be there.
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When have we, as players, ever affected a metaplot outcome before?
In other Organized Play Campaigns the players do affect the metaplot, even leading to official history in published product.
With Paizo's desire to keep the campaign rather time neutral, there is just no way to effectively influence things, imho.
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When have we, as players, ever affected a metaplot outcome before?3. I'm uninspired/uninterested by season 3 scenarios. Nothing against the Dragon Empires but I'm struggling to find any interest in the metaplot if nothing we the players do affects the outcome.Agreed! Quite the deterrent...
Seasons 0,1,2 the story has already been told, season 3 is happening now. Is it wrong to have that impossible dream, to believe that I, as a PLAYER character and not a NPC could actually affect the outcome? (even looking at the fact that I'm just one person among thousands... why do I even do faction missions if they mean nothing?)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4
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With Paizo's desire to keep the campaign rather time neutral, there is just no way to effectively influence things, imho.
Well, there's a certain assumption there Clint. I'm not saying there isn't a basis for thinking that, but I have the impression that there are certain aspects of the setting that are set aside just so that the PFS Team can alter them.
That is, there might be degrees to which the setting can be influenced. You're not crazy, I can't see a PFS story arc wiping out all of House Thrune. That doesn't mean that a meaningful affect can't happen.
Finally, if nothing else, Paizo listens. They are in the people pleasing business. If people want something bad enough, they don't turn a deaf ear. Instead they look for how they can have the best of all possible worlds and make everybody happy.
That's why they hire smart designers. :D
I played PFS at least twice a month from April to November last year, and went to one local con. I was really into it. But between GMing one group, playing in another group, GMing an online campaign and PFS, I got bored and burned out. It's a heavy game to prep (though 10+ years of 3.x experience helps with this) for and too rules heavy for me to be overloading my schedule on. Plus, RAW don't encourage me to play my characters the way I really want to.
Will I return to Pathfinder? I'd like to think so since I spent money on books and HeroLab. But for now I'm having too much fun playing other games.
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Seasons 0,1,2 the story has already been told, season 3 is happening now. Is it wrong to have that impossible dream, to believe that I, as a PLAYER character and not a NPC could actually affect the outcome? (even looking at the fact that I'm just one person among thousands... why do I even do faction missions if they mean nothing?)
This is going to change. Look for more details as we get closer to Season 4. Not only will we have a blog post about it, Mark and I will discuss further at the PFS Members' Meeting at Gen Con, and we have another surprise or two in mind I won't disclose at this time (not event to Venture-Captains) :-) Not only are we looking at ways faction missions and goals will affect the future of the campaign, but we are also give faction missions a face lift.
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Gulf
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This is going to change. Look for more details as we get closer to Season 4. Not only will we have a blog post about it, Mark and I will discuss further at the PFS Members' Meeting at Gen Con, and we have another surprise or two in mind I won't disclose at this time (not event to Venture-Captains) :-)
Can I happy dance now? This is fantastic news. One element I missed was that we could affect the campaign world. I love this campaign!
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This is going to change. Look for more details as we get closer to Season 4. Not only will we have a blog post about it, Mark and I will discuss further at the PFS Members' Meeting at Gen Con, and we have another surprise or two in mind I won't disclose at this time (not event to Venture-Captains) :-) Not only are we looking at ways faction missions and goals will affect the future of the campaign, but we are also give faction missions a face lift.
Seasons 0,1,2 the story has already been told, season 3 is happening now. Is it wrong to have that impossible dream, to believe that I, as a PLAYER character and not a NPC could actually affect the outcome? (even looking at the fact that I'm just one person among thousands... why do I even do faction missions if they mean nothing?)
Sweet, that made my day! Thanks Brock!
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This is going to change. Look for more details as we get closer to Season 4. Not only will we have a blog post about it, Mark and I will discuss further at the PFS Members' Meeting at Gen Con, and we have another surprise or two in mind I won't disclose at this time (not event to Venture-Captains) :-)Can I happy dance now? This is fantastic news. One element I missed was that we could affect the campaign world. I love this campaign!
Seconded. And happy dance here, as well.
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While I still actively play and GM I will say that a lot of the negativity on the boards and rants are probably a turn off to many folks.
And when more than half of all posts are something along the lines of "OMG archetype/class/spell/combo is so OP, lets change XYZ rule and while we're at it lets change this other rule" Its seems we now spend more time complaining about the game than talking about its merits and the fun experiences we have.
I dont know if this is due to the overall growth of the game or the growth of the rules bloat from all of the products out there.
Lastly, the boards themselves have become a turf of sorts for the 25 or so posters who literally are posting constantly. Their opinions overshadow everyone else's, Its like a tug-of-war to see who can better state their argument (i.e. opinion)
I dont know but these are some of the things i've seen recently.
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Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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This is going to change. Look for more details as we get closer to Season 4. Not only will we have a blog post about it, Mark and I will discuss further at the PFS Members' Meeting at Gen Con, and we have another surprise or two in mind I won't disclose at this time (not event to Venture-Captains) :-) Not only are we looking at ways faction missions and goals will affect the future of the campaign, but we are also give faction missions a face lift.
Seasons 0,1,2 the story has already been told, season 3 is happening now. Is it wrong to have that impossible dream, to believe that I, as a PLAYER character and not a NPC could actually affect the outcome? (even looking at the fact that I'm just one person among thousands... why do I even do faction missions if they mean nothing?)
Postmonster ate my post... :/
Anyway, I was wondering if there was any plans/possibility of the PFS Member's Meeting being recorded (audio &/or video) for those of us who can't attend? So much happens at GenCon, but only a small portion of the PFS can actually attend. I'd much rather be able to see/hear the meeting than read about it second hand in a blog post or board post after the fact.
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While I still actively play and GM I will say that a lot of the negativity on the boards and rants are probably a turn off to many folks.
Yeah, this had a big impact on the game for me as well. I still play, but the threads along the lines of "If you complete faction mission X you must be evil and will be removed from the campaign" and "If my paladin doesn't like your character you don't get to play at the same table" really sucked. I've never encountered either situation in running/playing about 100 games now, but comments like that appear to take on a heightened significance when they keep coming up on the boards.
Rules bloat, ambiguities, errata that occurs many months after the book has come out and we've invested in characters, official responses that said "just ask the GM" (in an OP environment), 'clarifications' that look more like rules changes; they all chip away at the clear, consistent and reliable bedrock that an OP game needs. Still, I like what Mike's done so far and we seem to be getting some order back again, so things are looking up!
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... and I wish you luck at GaryCon. Wish I could be there.
Huge PFS success at GaryCon! I had a absolute blast both days I attended The WI VC & VL did a great job attracting new players! So many that when I showed up Saturday for the 8am game the tables were full of new players(I had a game to prep for so I gladly let the new people have fun).
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I still play PFS. I may even run a few mods.
However, my reasons for running and playing PFS are because I'm trying to figure out how to make a better OrgPlay systems for the game engine my company uses as its house engine.
I have watched PFS change with the APG, and now UC and UM (and likely to change again with the UE guides...) rules expansions....and I see Pathfinder going down the road to Splatbook Bloat.
I am seeing that, justified or not, a large and vocal contingent of players see the new rules additions as being poorly playtested and developed. Some class abilities seem horribly front-loaded.
I have seen, through Season 2, that a lot of PFS modules are incredibly formulaic. Some play that formula very very well. Some don't.
I have seen, mostly at convention games, that players build characters "to that formula."
I understand that OrgPlay requires a bedrock of judiciary nature. I've seen this used to make characters into interchangeable parts. I've seen GMs - highly regarded GMs - get annoyed at players trying to roleplay their way through an encounter rather than roll initiative and spend three rounds killing a group of NPCs that can't compete.
I've seen, especially with UC and UM, extensive power creep in character builds.
I'm learning a lot, and I'm glad this topic exists.
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Maybe at some point a closer game will emerge, or the weird races will stoke some passion to play. I just want to be able to relax and fire off a game without the fuss.
Just so you know, Mike has made it Clear that Races other then the Core Races will not become open to general PFS play, You will still be limited to Other races by getting Boons for them at conventions.
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Lastly, the boards themselves have become a turf of sorts for the 25 or so posters who literally are posting constantly. Their opinions overshadow everyone else's, Its like a tug-of-war to see who can better state their argument (i.e. opinion)
Posting a lot shouldn't automatically be a bad thing. Some of us are trying to be open/accepting of alternate/opposing positions.
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Lastly, the boards themselves have become a turf of sorts for the 25 or so posters who literally are posting constantly. Their opinions overshadow everyone else's, Its like a tug-of-war to see who can better state their argument (i.e. opinion)Posting a lot shouldn't automatically be a bad thing. Some of us are trying to be open/accepting of alternate/opposing positions.
Agreed. I don't want my side of the argument to win, I want PFS to win.
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Agreed. I don't want my side of the argument to win, I want PFS to win.Lastly, the boards themselves have become a turf of sorts for the 25 or so posters who literally are posting constantly. Their opinions overshadow everyone else's, Its like a tug-of-war to see who can better state their argument (i.e. opinion)Posting a lot shouldn't automatically be a bad thing. Some of us are trying to be open/accepting of alternate/opposing positions.
I'm willing to bet that those who post the most are the most often ignored. Don't assume that because someone posts a lot that they have a greater influence within our society.
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I'm willing to bet that those who post the most are the most often ignored. Don't assume that because someone posts a lot that they have a greater influence within our society.Agreed. I don't want my side of the argument to win, I want PFS to win.Lastly, the boards themselves have become a turf of sorts for the 25 or so posters who literally are posting constantly. Their opinions overshadow everyone else's, Its like a tug-of-war to see who can better state their argument (i.e. opinion)Posting a lot shouldn't automatically be a bad thing. Some of us are trying to be open/accepting of alternate/opposing positions.
I'm not assuming anything. But Like Bob said a few posts ago trying to be open/accepting of alternate/opposing positions. This is especially true when it comes to "gray area" rules that Paizo hasnt addressed.
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I'm willing to bet that those who post the most are the most often ignored. Don't assume that because someone posts a lot that they have a greater influence within our society.Agreed. I don't want my side of the argument to win, I want PFS to win.Lastly, the boards themselves have become a turf of sorts for the 25 or so posters who literally are posting constantly. Their opinions overshadow everyone else's, Its like a tug-of-war to see who can better state their argument (i.e. opinion)Posting a lot shouldn't automatically be a bad thing. Some of us are trying to be open/accepting of alternate/opposing positions.
Is this where you tell us the story of the boy who cried dire wolf?
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I used to play a lot of PFS, and even agreed to run games as a 2nd GM when it appeared that our local group was growing, but I don't do much of either anymore. The various reasons have been:
1. Time. As much as I don't like it, real life gets to veto gamer life, especially if my job helps pay for said gamer life.
2. Not enough roleplay. Ok, I'm not the greatest roleplayer nor do I stay in character all the time, but the players' approach to scenarios became particularly formulaic. It became more apparent for me as a GM and I saw all these min/max builds and players literally began asking, "what do I have to roll to succeed?" instead of trying to roleplay what was in front of them.
3. Loss of interest. Yeah, that local group we had that was growing (not large by some, be we were excited to have almost 3 full tables at it's peak)... I guess simply put we all got bored. I think there were other contributing factors, like OP rules/scenarios isn't for everyone and again real life gets to trump game life. In the end, those of us that still showed up every week we were simply not excited about playing anymore.
4. Felt like work. I got burned out. Plain and simple. I play games as a hobby. Building off my previous point, if no one was excited to play, it became a second job instead of a fun hobby.
Lastly, and this is just an observation during this past year in PFS:
Messageboards weren't all that helpful. No offense, and I'm not directing toward anyone in particular. The general feeling from our group of players and GM's was that it was the same group of people arguing over points that left us just as confused without any real clarification. Granted I'm used to seeing this from past experience on boards (completely unrelated to Pathfinder/Paizo but the past is why I don't actively post in the present). However, the feeling of being a "speed bump" for other's posts when trying to contribute in a thread was discouraging for some in our group. Again, just an observation.
There's actually two ways in which power creep can occur.
1) Faster, better, stronger. Example: the 3.5 abjurant champion. Just, clearly, better than the 3.5 eldritch knight. Sometimes new options are more powerful than the old.
2) Permutations and combinations. If we add ten weapons, and ten archetypes, we don't have twenty new possible characters. We now have one hundred new characters. Sure, many of them are terrible, but the point is that options multiply, not add.
Even if new options avoid problem one, they cannot help but contribute to two. A player with enough time can work out a stronger character when there are more options to choose from.
The only method to deal with problem two that I know of is to limit the total number of options. But there are two ways to do that...
So, Instead of having PFS do it for us, I want to encourage you to voluntarily go without options. Think about it like a handicap in golf. Golfers pride themselves on having a handicap.
So, if you're tired of seeing optimize or die, I urge you to fight back. Go without, and when someone says "Why didn't you dump your INT to 7 ???" just respond, "Oh, I don't need to do that to have a strong character" or "Frankenstein characters are so tedious. All they can do is attack, so one-dimensional"
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I actually had players get miffed with me for trying to infuse a litte RP into the game on my turn. When I would describe my actions before I rolled my dice, and say, "We get it. You're a fighter who specializes in combat maneuvers. What armor class did you hit?"
To whom it may,
For those who know me, I've been and will remain a huge fan of Pathfinder RPG.
I traveled to GENCON last year and had the same experience that W. Kristoph Nolen describes.
No value judgment. Pathfinder RPG works very well with my weekly roleplaying group, and my monthly group. I've GM'ed more than 200 Pathfinder RPG games since the Alpha Playtest, and I will continue playing and supporting PAIZO at every turn. However, I'm waiting until the gaming culture swings back toward good roleplaying... again, I determined that organized play, at least the mainstream of organized play, seems to play very cock-and-balls game mechanics, and that doesn't appeal to me.
To be clear, I use every mechanic in the Pathfinder RPG game. But I play with a commensurate amount of roleplaying as well. I am already seeing some improvement in gaming culture... but not enough of a "norm" again to draw me in right now.
Regrets,
Pax
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I used to play Pathfinder Society. I used to play weekly when I was living in Dallas, before the in-town FLGS went under.
I moved away, and apparently shortly thereafter said FLGS deflated. DFW is still a big PFS area and I know why: Dedicated players and GMs.
I tried my first hand at running PFS while in Dallas. After I moved away, I tried for a while to set something up for PFS at a game store in Kansas while I was living in Kansas City, MO. Eventually I found that people were playing regularly in Independence, MO. I played there once, but the schedule was wonky and the car trip was long and circuitous from downtown.
Then I moved to Albuquerque and everything changed. I stopped playing Pathfinder Society Organized Play. For a while—and I didn't know this at the time—PFS was running and I didn't even know. By the time I arrived on the scene, it was already dead, the first GM having disappeared, second GM having quit running due to personal differences, and the third GM moving away permanently. It literally had petered out.
Enter me: Pathfinder Enthusiast (broke, but dedicated), and veteran—if still rather inexperienced—PFS GM and player. My first session had only four players. My second, again, four players. I was getting experienced at roping people into playing who had other engagements that had fallen through. Only two players carried over from the first session to the second.
Fast forward to today: Here in Albuquerque, I've run 11 sessions in the past three months and organized one more. I have two more scheduled. I've had a total of sixteen players, only three of which have returned from the previous incarnation of a Pathfinder Society chapter in the city. And PFSOP is still growing, here: I've got eight more who are interested in playing if only I can get a game to line up with their schedules. And I've got players who know other potential players. And I've done all this in an uphill battle against Friday Night Magic—only the king of the other games that the local stores deal in. I'm going to be running four tables at Albuquerque Comics Expo and as many as two at Free RPG Day.
What's more, I'm beginning to reach out to game stores across the state to drum up interest in PFS there. I can't afford to drive to those stores, but Internet communication is free.
NM has a long way to go, but so far it's been a fun ride.
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I used to play Pathfinder Society. I used to play weekly when I was living in Dallas ... DFW is still a big PFS area and I know why: Dedicated players and GMs.
It is, indeed, Matt. I posted in this thread a while back when I was still living in Houston. Now, I've moved to Dallas, and -as you said- there is a thriving and active community in Dallas. I just gotta work out sharing the car with my GF so I can get to those games.
I'm certain that you're missed within the local group in DFW. It's very close-knit.