Adhesion vs FoM


Rules Questions


So we ran into this problem tonight at our table and, after a brief discussion, went with GM fiat and moved on. We all agreed that we would like some oversight into how it ought to be handled by RAW.

First, the two abilities in question.

Quote:
Adhesion (Ex) A creature striking a tarry demodand with a manufactured weapon must make a DC 23 Reflex save; failure means the weapon sticks to the demodand and cannot be used to make attacks until freed. Freeing a stuck weapon requires a successful grapple check. This adhesion grants a +4 racial bonus to CMD against disarm attempts.
Quote:

Freedom of Movement: This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. All combat maneuver checks made to grapple the target automatically fail. The subject automatically succeeds on any combat maneuver checks and Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.

The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, grant water breathing.

The situation was that we were fighting a tarry demodand and the fighter hit it with his greatsword. Our fighter is wearing a ring of FoM. He failed his Reflex save against the adhesion ability. Half the group said that he should have to make the save, since the ability calls out using the grapple mechanic, and FoM makes you immune to grapples.

The other half of the table said that since the adhesion ability isn't a grapple, but a reflex save that can be undone with a grapple check, that the ring didn't apply in this corner case.

So, which is it? Does the ring make the sword unstickable or not?


The sword sticks on a failed save. That much should be clear, because there is nothing about the spell affects that part. The sticking part is entirely separate from the grappling text. Grapple comes into play when you try to free the weapon. There is a difference here, and it should be noted.

What I would focus on is the specifics. FoM actually doesn't say you automatically win grapple checks that YOU initiate. It just says that any attempts to grapple you fail, and you auto succeed on CMB and EA checks made to escape grapples/pins.

In the even of adhesion, you are initiating a grapple check to free the sword. Thus, FoM has no effect, because you are not being grapple back.

I would rule that if he fails the Reflex save, then he must succeed on a grapple check to get his weapon back, and FoM does not help him in any way in doing so.

But I might have overlooked something.


Any other thoughts on this?

Is there any way for a melee fighter to get around the Adhesion ability?


Universal Solvent applied to the weapon would prevent the use of the adhesion ability on that weapon. Cost's 50g per application.

Sovereign Court

to double check- the sword that was stuck is no longer in possession of the fighter, correct?

For instance, the tarry fiend now wants to move away...

or the fighter wants to use a power of the sword since he is grasping it..,.


*whisper whisper* This thread is 2 years old *whisper whisper*

Sovereign Court

this just happened in our game 5 minutes ago

the issue of the sword's possession really wasn't answered above.


Ah, in that case. What Vendis said was pretty accurate.

Vendis wrote:

The sword sticks on a failed save. That much should be clear, because there is nothing about the spell affects that part. The sticking part is entirely separate from the grappling text. Grapple comes into play when you try to free the weapon. There is a difference here, and it should be noted.

What I would focus on is the specifics. FoM actually doesn't say you automatically win grapple checks that YOU initiate. It just says that any attempts to grapple you fail, and you auto succeed on CMB and EA checks made to escape grapples/pins.

In the even of adhesion, you are initiating a grapple check to free the sword. Thus, FoM has no effect, because you are not being grapple back.

I would rule that if he fails the Reflex save, then he must succeed on a grapple check to get his weapon back, and FoM does not help him in any way in doing so.

But I might have overlooked something.

I bolded the more important parts.

I would have no problem ruling that the sword ignores the adhesion ability just because it makes sense that your gear shouldn't be hindered.

Otherwise your "armor" could get stuck in webs and you would have to FoM yourself out of your armor since it is now your armor keeping you from moving, not the web.


I don't agree that the grapple check to free the sword counts as initiating a grapple. Yes, it's the first instance of "grapple" and started by the PC, but if anything it's to escape not to begin grappling.
As the sword is attended, much like Sindalla notes for your armor, etc., it comes free when you do a grapple check to free it.

So, yes it sticks if you miss the save.
Then the Fighter auto-succeeds pulling it out.

My 2 g.p.
Cheers.

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