Why do proteans argue for souls in Pharasma's court?


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion


I was reading through The Great Beyond, and it spoke about how proteans would argue in Pharasma's Palace to win over souls for the Maelstrom. But... why?

The proteans are older than the rest of the multiverse, and thus are not created from souls. In fact, they want to return all creation back to being chaos, so they don't really need souls for that either. What does drawing souls to the Maelstrom do to further the cause of The Speakers of the Depths?

Is it just to turn a handful of tiny souls back into chaos? To prevent the others from getting a hold of them themselves? Are the only proteans arguing in the courts representatives of chaos gods? I'm afraid I'm not too good at coming up with reasons for things that aren't outright explained for me (which can cause some problems when I try to mess around with as-of-yet-unanswered mysteries in the world. Sigh...)

And how does a being of pure chaos represent itself in something as necessitating order as a court?

If this is answered in another book, I apologize--I don't quite have them all yet.

If anyone could answer this for me, I'd be very grateful.


Well, off the top of my head I would say that each soul they take is one that returns to the depths of chaos, freeing from the order or the other planes, and that they can warp and mold and destroy as they wish.

As for how they can organize themselves in a court, I would expect that they work something like their Choirs, or however a court of Demons would organize itself. Perhaps the Proteans merely hold spots in the Boneyard as a court for as long as it interests them, or maybe they stick around for other reason.

Proteans are beings of chaos, but they aren't utterly mad creatures that only mutter nonsense words. They are intelligent creatures.

And if you look at their ecology article in Legacy of Fire, there is a small scene which describes at least one Protean's reasons for taking a soul (at least for that moment).

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Well why not? They're just giving them away for free. All you need to do is present a better argument than the opposition, and given some of those arguments, you win for just showing up and saying, "Filigree garish stoat hatbox."

Pharasma looks at that, then looks at the imp arguing that a two-year-old sold her soul for a lollipop, then awards the soul to the protean just to twit the imp for wasting her time.


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Then she notices that the kids was peeing in the River of Souls and just hands her over to the Daemons.

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They didn't originally spawn from mortal souls, and the vast vast utterly vast majority of them aren't now, but they can take mortal souls and make them into proteans if they so desire. In their mind they're setting that soul free. Letting a soul be shackled into an eternity of structured, rigid, defined, eternal slavery rather than the Maelstrom's freedom is a hell of its own to them. In their own way, they'll do it when they're feeling sympathetic, but really only if the soul is willing. Denying them the choice would be antithetical.

But beyond giving that gift (as they see it), they'll argue for souls: just because, to spite and throw a cog into the future plans of pretty much every other outsider race especially devils/archons/axiomites and demons given the atypical enmity there for that last one.

IMO.


Thank you! I really appreciate the feedback, and think that it will help in my upcoming campaign.

Dark Archive

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Proteans make music, a strange and sometimes beautiful eternal chorus.

Nobody said what they make music from.

Hence the need for souls.

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Whenever you're asking "Why...?" about a protean, the correct answer is probably "Why not?"

Or "Yes."

Or maybe "Blue!"

Silver Crusade

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"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

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Mikaze, that's a pretty excellent protean speech. :D

Silver Crusade

Thanks! :)

Proteans actually make me wish I had Devin Townsend's vocal range, just for voicing those guys.


"An itching nose must be scratched..."


Mikaze wrote:

Thanks! :)

Proteans actually make me wish I had Devin Townsend's vocal range, just for voicing those guys.

Um...do more, please? That sort of thing makes me want to fit proteans into my current campaign.


Mikaze wrote:

Thanks! :)

Proteans actually make me wish I had Devin Townsend's vocal range, just for voicing those guys.

That'd be Trippy.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Sutter wrote:

Whenever you're asking "Why...?" about a protean, the correct answer is probably "Why not?"

Or "Yes."

Or maybe "Blue!"

"You don't want me! I'm Old! I'm Fat! I'm Blue!"

Anyone remember that line?


LazarX wrote:
James Sutter wrote:

Whenever you're asking "Why...?" about a protean, the correct answer is probably "Why not?"

Or "Yes."

Or maybe "Blue!"

"You don't want me! I'm Old! I'm Fat! I'm Blue!"

Anyone remember that line?

"I want you to tell your men "run away.""

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tobias wrote:
LazarX wrote:
James Sutter wrote:

Whenever you're asking "Why...?" about a protean, the correct answer is probably "Why not?"

Or "Yes."

Or maybe "Blue!"

"You don't want me! I'm Old! I'm Fat! I'm Blue!"

Anyone remember that line?

"I want you to tell your men "run away.""

That's eclipsed by this exchange.

"No one fears the anger of a good man. They have so many rules."

"Good men need no rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many."


Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Sure, mortal souls are fine. But spend centuries as a properly Chaotic slaad and ask to join the protean club... they'll turn up their snooty extremities at ya.

Bastards. {sniff}

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Sure, mortal souls are fine. But spend centuries as a properly Chaotic slaad and ask to join the protean club... they'll turn up their snooty extremities at ya.

Bastards. {sniff}

Protean: "Hey froggy thingy! Come dance-shift-change now time! Chaos rebirth! Law claim/keep/hold amphibian with brain-thought claiming law! Shed-shift froggy skin--snaky scales free slithering! Follow-find chaos path!"


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Proteans are sooooo much better than Slaadi.


zagnabbit wrote:
Proteans are sooooo much better than Slaadi.

Meh, I think both are awesome.


The Slaadi are cool monsters, but I never got the frog/chaos connection. When I got my original Fiend Folio, there were things in it that I thought were amazing. But the chaos frogs just made my 9 year old mind stop and say "huh".

Proteans seem to do that primal chaos thing for me. They are both strange/alien and familiar/new. I can't quite say what it is that I like, although the naming convention is spectacular.

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zagnabbit wrote:
The Slaadi are cool monsters, but I never got the frog/chaos connection.

They're the other half of the Egyptian Ogdoad mythology I used for inspiration in creating the proteans. ;)


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Todd Stewart wrote:
zagnabbit wrote:
The Slaadi are cool monsters, but I never got the frog/chaos connection.
They're the other half of the Egyptian Ogdoad mythology I used for inspiration in creating the proteans. ;)

Cool. I'll be bringing back Slaadi now as the males to the female Proteans. :D


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Qlipploths are my favorite Outsider race. They're basically the grumpy grandparents of demons, screaming for all of reality to get off of their abyssal lawn.


Grrr.. why can't Gnomes worship proteans? They seem like a perfect fit. Never ending change is a perfect way to avoid bleaching


...

Okay, I just shared Mikaze's protean speech with my mother...she thought it sounded very JarJar-ish (from Star Wars).

I think it actually explains a lot. JarJar is a protean petitioner. And he's only in the movies because George Lucas wishes to return us to the Primordial Times through propaganda for the proteans. Unfortunately, his plot failed, and that's why he's upset that people didn't like JarJar...it means they're not ready to accept his lords yet, and he takes that personally.

What do you know, Paizo, that we do not?! *points accusing finger at random staff member*

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Grrr.. why can't Gnomes worship proteans? They seem like a perfect fit. Never ending change is a perfect way to avoid bleaching

Avoid the bleaching, maybe, but then you contract Stendhal syndrome instead and devolve into Jar-Jar.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
{whining}
Protean: "Hey froggy thingy! Come dance-shift-change now time! Chaos rebirth! Law claim/keep/hold amphibian with brain-thought claiming law! Shed-shift froggy skin--snaky scales free slithering! Follow-find chaos path!"
I would, but Paizo has no protean avatars.
Fabius Maximus wrote:
I'll be bringing back Slaadi now as the males to the female Proteans. :D

Augh! I don't want to be a boy!


Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Just read your take on the Protean mind set - BEAUTIFUL! Absolutely beautiful! This is a great little piece of writing.


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Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Wait, is Fluttershy a protean? Are proteans Bronies?

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Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Wait, is Fluttershy a protean? Are proteans Bronies?

No, but Discord is definitely a Protean.

Silver Crusade

Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Wait, is Fluttershy a protean? Are proteans Bronies?

I had assumed she was some sort of aasimarpony, because EFEN HER SCHNEEZES ARE GRASHEFUL!

Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


No, but Discord is definitely a Protean.

Every character played by John de Lancie defaults to proteans in my book.

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Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:


No, but Discord is definitely a Protean.

Discord gets to be an honorary member of the Chorus of Malignant Symmetry (Because the Chorus of Razored Discord would be too obvious). :)

*very much a bronie*


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Why should the females/males be limited to just one side of the protean/slaadi equation? After all, don't the slaadi produce eggs too? (AFB right now.)

Maybe when they change colour/shape, they also change sex? That would seem suitably chaotic to me ...

Shadow Lodge

Because his favorite number is rainbow.

You're expecting a logical, structured argument for why a being made of pure chaos is doing something that doesn't make sense to you.


Slaadi were originaly made from proteans with the spawn stone. :)


{whispers:} Actually, the Spawn stone is just the calcified corpse of the dead deity, McK'Fahlaynne. We have picnics and Calvinball playoffs there irregularly. C'mon by next time; we'll save an egg for ya'.

Dark Archive

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Proteans. Pfah. A nuisance at best, and a blight upon the universe at worst. Their only use for the soul is as a trinket, a meaningless bauble for a creature incapable of greater meaning.

It is a privilege and duty to reclaim spiritual coin from such creatures. I have heard that some among the Hellknight orders are even chosen by the gods to go forth to the planes beyond this world and seek such monsters in the Maelstrom.


Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Wait, is Fluttershy a protean? Are proteans Bronies?
No, but Discord is definitely a Protean.

You mean I'm not the only person who equated Discord with a Protean?

Hmm, I wonder -- is Queen Chrysalis (from the season climax) a Daemon, then? She seems to be something of a soul-eater like they are.


Eric Hinkle wrote:
Kevin Andrew Murphy wrote:
Ambrosia Slaad wrote:
Mikaze wrote:

"Hey dead person! I smell you're going to Elysium! You sure you want to be another you forever?

Taste what I have to sing for a moment. Wouldn't you like to be other things? You could be a tree. Or a song. Or a question. You could be all of those instead of just one thing.

Final states are boring-death. Why be only one pattern when you can be lessmoreother?

Go on if you wish. But if you grow weary, do come to the edge. We will be waiting to welcome you to ouryour wonders."

Wait, is Fluttershy a protean? Are proteans Bronies?
No, but Discord is definitely a Protean.

You mean I'm not the only person who equated Discord with a Protean?

Hmm, I wonder -- is Queen Chrysalis (from the season climax) a Daemon, then? She seems to be something of a soul-eater like they are.

She made me think more of a Eldest, shape changing, weird magic, and a apatite based on a emotion? Fey I say!

Also Discord is best Protean example! Why did he do it? Because it was fun at the moment and who doesn't like chocolate rain?

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