Crossblooded Wildblooded Sorcerer?


Advice

Silver Crusade

Is it possible to be a Crossblooded Wildblooded Sorcerer in PFS? Can those stack?


Yes, you can use both.


I have seen discussions about using them together and no one mentioned it not being allowed in PFS so I'm assuming you could do it.

Silver Crusade

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Just ran into this thread, so while I'm here:
recent FAQ post on how Crossblooded and Wildblooded do not stack.


Well, the FAQs was from a few weeks ago and the thread was from 2012... Its possible to use the two together but not legal RAW, so its really up to the DM.


Yea, at the time it wasn't illegal, but now it is.


NikTheAvatar wrote:

Just ran into this thread, so while I'm here:

recent FAQ post on how Crossblooded and Wildblooded do not stack.

Seems the core rules say otherwise.

"A character can take more than one archetype and garner additional alternate class features, but none of the alternate class features can replace or alter the same class feature from the core class as another alternate class feature"

Are Sorcerers a exception to the rule now?

Also the example use to justify the FAQ makes no sense. I don't think you can take the same bloodline twice. Technically it would work. But is even allowed?


Pathfinder Design Team wrote:

If a fighter archetype changed the "bravery" class feature so that you also gained the bravery bonus against charm effects as well as fear effects, that is still *altering* the class feature. Even if it let you pick whether you got the bonus against fear or against charms, that is *altering* the class feature.

Crossblooded doesn't just let you pick between two bloodlines: you get the bloodline arcana from *both* bloodlines. It is most definitely an alteration to the standard class feature (which is "pick one bloodline, get its bloodline arcana").

My response.

Azten wrote:

If Wild/Crossblooded aren't allowed to stack, why is the Qinggong Monk allowed to stack with other archetypes, as explained in >>this<< FAQ?

Using that FAQ as a base...

A Sorcerer taking both Wildblooded(bedrock) and Crossblooded(Celestial) would be unable to replace Iron Hide with Wings of Heaven.

Liberty's Edge

I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible. Cross blooded modifies the entirety of the bloodline ability, which means, to me, that wild blooded couldn't modify anything in the bloodline if it wanted to be compatible, which obviously isn't the case.


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ShadowcatX wrote:
I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible. Cross blooded modifies the entirety of the bloodline ability, which means, to me, that wild blooded couldn't modify anything in the bloodline if it wanted to be compatible, which obviously isn't the case.

I always thought that the wildblooded bloodlines were just like subdomains. I don't hear anything about a cleric archetype that modifies domains being incompatible with subdomains.


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ShadowcatX wrote:
I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible.

I've never understood why people thought they would be incompatible.

Liberty's Edge

Darigaaz the Igniter wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible. Cross blooded modifies the entirety of the bloodline ability, which means, to me, that wild blooded couldn't modify anything in the bloodline if it wanted to be compatible, which obviously isn't the case.
I always thought that the wildblooded bloodlines were just like subdomains. I don't hear anything about a cleric archetype that modifies domains being incompatible with subdomains.

Subdomains aren't archetypes. Wildblooded is an archetype.

MrSin wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible.
I've never understood why people thought they would be incompatible.

Then explain it to me, and perhaps I can explain the reverse to you.

Do you believe that cross blooded does not modify arcana and bloodline powers? Or do you believe that wild blooded does not modify arcana and bloodline powers?


ShadowcatX wrote:
MrSin wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible.
I've never understood why people thought they would be incompatible.
Then explain it to me, and perhaps I can explain the reverse to you.

Was a joke, and sure I can explain it. I think of them like subdomains or subschools where you change what's inside of the domain but not the domain itself. You still have a bloodline, its just little different than normal. I don't see why you should deny someone something that functions just fine and can assist in creating a concept(besides, wildblooded is pretty weak as is outside of dipping).

Liberty's Edge

MrSin wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
MrSin wrote:
ShadowcatX wrote:
I've never understood why people thought they would be compatible.
I've never understood why people thought they would be incompatible.
Then explain it to me, and perhaps I can explain the reverse to you.
Was a joke, and sure I can explain it. I think of them like subdomains or subschools where you change what's inside of the domain but not the domain itself. You still have a bloodline, its just little different than normal. I don't see why you should deny someone something that functions just fine and can assist in creating a concept(besides, wildblooded is pretty weak as is outside of dipping).

Ok, I wasn't clear. Do you have a rules related reason that they should be compatible? As I pointed out earlier, subdomains are not an archetype, wildblooded is. And wildblooded is perfectly fine for power level, I think you meant crossblooded there? And even then, as a word caster crossblooded isn't that bad.

Not that I think it would be over powered to let them stack, I just don't think it is, or ever was, RAW. (Or RAI for that matter.)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
MrSin wrote:
Well, the FAQs was from a few weeks ago and the thread was from 2012... Its possible to use the two together but not legal RAW, so its really up to the DM.

Since the OP was specifically asking about PFS, the relevant answer is no as they both are archetypes, and they both modify the same class feature.


ShadowcatX wrote:
Ok, I wasn't clear. Do you have a rules related reason that they should be compatible? As I pointed out earlier, subdomains are not an archetype, wildblooded is. And wildblooded is perfectly fine for power level, I think you meant crossblooded there? And even then, as a word caster crossblooded isn't that bad.

Yeah, I meant cross blooded. The closest thing I have to a rule reason is that your modifying things inside of the bloodline but wildblooded is really unaffected by crossblooded and vice versa outside of using a different selection of bloodlines. Beyond that I guess I'd have to ask why wildblooded is an archetype but subschools and subdomains aren't. They all modify something inside of the class.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Wildblooded and Crossblooded both modify the same class feature, the sorcerer's bloodline. So they can't stack. You can be one or the other, but not both.


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LazarX wrote:
Wildblooded and Crossblooded both modify the same class feature, the sorcerer's bloodline. So they can't stack. You can be one or the other, but not both.

They work if you do stack them though...


FAQ says no.


Please thinking about it, Crossblood and Wildblood is two archetypes from the same class. You can't stack two handed fighter with dragoon fighter. It simply doesn't make sense to have the benefit of both archetypes while only level in one class.


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SiuoL wrote:
Please thinking about it, Crossblood and Wildblood is two archetypes from the same class. You can't stack two handed fighter with dragoon fighter. It simply doesn't make sense to have the benefit of both archetypes while only level in one class.

You can stack two archetypes from the same class; so long as they don't replace the same thing. For instance you can stack the invulnerable barbarian and urban barbarian archetypes because neither replace the same class feature. You however can't stack dragoon with two handed fighter because both replace weapon and armor training 1-4


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PFS FAQ says no

So the PFS FAQ and Ultimate Magic FAQ both say no.

However, I (and many other DMs) don't have a problem with it in our own games.

This is because a Wildblooded bloodline is effectively just another bloodline. So if Crossblooded (Draconic/Orc) is allowed and not OP then (Linnorm/Orc) shouldn't be either.

If you think of Wildblooded bloodlines as "subdomains" or variants of the original, it makes sense that you should be able to cross it just like any other.

However, since they are both archetypes that modify a feature in common, it isn't normally allowed.


Is it legal? No for the answers stated above
Is it broken? No for the answers stated above.
Most Gm's I know allow it in their home games.


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In my opinion, wildblooded shouldn't have been written as an archetype at all. It doesn't read like any other archetype. It does, however, read very similarly to cleric subdomains. So much so that the entries for each wildblooded bloodline are almost identical to the entries for each subdomain.

As an archetype, it RAW (and thus correctly FAQ'ed) won't stack with crossblooded. As "subbloodlines", which is what they look like, they would (and that's how I play it).

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