Greater grapple is driving me nuts


Rules Questions


ok so my tetori is built off greater grapple. duh.

but the wording is making my head spin...

" You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple."

so im reading this as "once you grapple someone all grapple, to maintain, checks are move actions."
so my confusion is 2 things

one,if that Is true would that allow for a standard action to be used after you sucessfully maintain a grapple?

and 2, since grappeling only allows for auto damage no attack roll im 99% sure you cannot turn that into a stunning fist.

but what about the grapple its self, which is a form of attack, would it be able to qualify as a stunning fist attempt?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
truesidekick wrote:
one,if that Is true would that allow for a standard action to be used after you sucessfully maintain a grapple?

Yes. Your standard action can be anything you'd like, as long as you can do it while you have the grappled condition.

Quote:
and 2, since grappeling only allows for auto damage no attack roll im 99% sure you cannot turn that into a stunning fist.

You can't use Stunning Fist with your action to maintain the grapple, but you could then make an unarmed attack as a standard action and use Stunning Fist with that.

Shadow Lodge

Or use your grapple to pin him and and make a stunning fist attempt as a swift action since you got Stunning Pin at 2nd lvl


AvalonXQ wrote:
truesidekick wrote:
one,if that Is true would that allow for a standard action to be used after you sucessfully maintain a grapple?

Yes. Your standard action can be anything you'd like, as long as you can do it while you have the grappled condition.

Quote:
and 2, since grappeling only allows for auto damage no attack roll im 99% sure you cannot turn that into a stunning fist.
You can't use Stunning Fist with your action to maintain the grapple, but you could then make an unarmed attack as a standard action and use Stunning Fist with that.

ok so i spent the last 45 minutes using the search feature, i cannot find any official responce and i agree with your reply about the standard.

hmm... then if that is true, perhapse i should go with the vital strike chain. it would be a massive increase to my over all damage while grappling.

maintain grapple + pinning knockout = 2 unarmed attacks
swift action grapple with pinning knockout= 2 more
stunning greater vital strike =8d10 + modifiers + jawbreaker+ pinning knockout would be 2 more unarmed attacks

at 17 i could be hitting for the equivilent of 6 unarmed attacks subdual, 8d10 lethal + modifiers then add 6d10 bleeding damage with rending pin. then add choke hold and 2d6 ability damage from neck breaker.

my god if this is legal lol.


Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

the real advantage of having Greater Grapple and Rapid Grapple is that you get multiple grapple checks per round. When you successfully maintain a grapple you get to do one of a list of actions from the grapple section of the CRB (about pg 200). This includes 1) damage equal to unarmed hit, 2) pin, 3) move up to half your speed, 4) tie up. Normally you would have to spend a standard action to maintain the grapple, roll your d20 and then if you choose do one of the above options. Greater Grapple allows for more actions.

For example, I have Greater grapple. So on my turn I roll 2 d20s and if one of the rolls allows me to maintain a grapple I get to do two of the actions above not one. SO, on my turn I can both pin and tie up an opponent (usually tie up has a -20 if the person isn't already pinned). Where as if I only had improved grapple I would only be able to pin my opponent this turn and have to wait for next turn to tie him up, risking him rolling enough to escape or being attacked and being forced to let go etc.

A tied up opponent is helpless, i.e. you can coup de grace him next round or just leave him there tied up until you kill his friends. This is why grappling is a good choice. Rapid Grapple (UC) is even better b/c you can maintain the grapple as a swift action and then full attack, or get three of the above choices.

Scarab Sages

j b 200 wrote:

...

For example, I have Greater grapple. So on my turn I roll 2 d20s and if one of the rolls allows me to maintain a grapple I get to do two of the actions above not one. SO, on my turn I can both pin and tie up an opponent (usually tie up has a -20 if the person isn't already pinned). Where as if I only had improved grapple I would only be able to pin my opponent this turn and have to wait for next turn to tie him up, risking him rolling enough to escape or being attacked and being forced to let go etc.
...

Can you do two things if you succeed only once in maintaining the grapple? I thought you had to succeed twice to do two things, but only one success was necessary to maintain the grapple.

Greater Grapple description wrote:
Benefit: You receive a +2 bonus on checks made to grapple a foe. This bonus stacks with the bonus granted by Improved Grapple. Once you have grappled a creature, maintaining the grapple is a move action. This feat allows you to make two grapple checks each round (to move, harm, or pin your opponent), but you are not required to make two checks. You only need to succeed at one of these checks to maintain the grapple.

(emphasis mine)

Grand Lodge

I agree with Brother Sapo.

you have to do both checks to be able to do 2 things.

My question (as discussed on a danish pathfinder board) is this:

if i have Greater grappel, can i 5-foot step to bad guy, initiate a grappel (standard action) and then "maintain" as a move action in the first round, and there by pinning an opponent in the first round?

The thing i found this depending on, is tha fact that it does not say anywhere that a maintaining grappel roll have to be in the round after the initiation. In the Corebook page 200 it states that if you do not release the grappel, you must make a check each round to maintain it. But this is from the assumption that you need a standard action to maintain a grappel.

and if this is possible, do i get the +5 circumstance bonus for my maintain move action roll in round 1?

Silver Crusade

@Ladon, most people say yes you can use Greater Grapple (and Rapid Grapple) in the first round. Some say no you can't.

Secondarily, you wouldn't get a +5 bonus until your opponent fails (or chooses not) to escape on their turn.

Go here for more discussion and clicky on the FAQ


Thank you bruno.

i was also given this link :http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kr28?Greater-Grapple-feat-grappled-and-pinned -+in#1

where James Jacobs - Creative Director, confirmes my suspicion.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Greater grapple is driving me nuts All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.