Looking like too much pvp for my taste


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Goblin Squad Member

I normally lurk around these forums reading but I thought I might share some of my experiences with PVP and why I sometimes find it a challenge as a primarily PVE player.

My first major experience in PVP was in Aion. Servers were merged and luckily (laughing manically) my poor PVE Chanter found themselves on a server populated by a heavy majority of the other faction. Well didn't that change my playing experience! It lead to a lot of running into groups of higher level players or even same level players who basically totaled my character. Which happened every time I tried a quest or stuck my nose out of town. Bad experience right? Well yes but there was also a certain excitement to creeping around trying to avoid these guys. Not only that but spotting one and yelling loudly on the chat so that suitably motivated high level characters could come and whack them was also very satisfying.

Now I am really learning MMO game style as I go along. I have played and GM'd tabletop for years - too many to count as that would give away my age :)

I tend to play PVE and really enjoy that because I can relax. But even with PVE as a primary focus I am trying to practice PVP skills in the MMO's I play currently because that's what I think reduces my enjoyment - not being able to compete on an equal footing because I am just not good at it. I know my reaction time is poor and I often get turned around visually on the screen (should see me try and fly a flying bike thingy in TOR - my son laughs so hard....) so standing up to another more coordinated player in PVP is a challenge. Mind you if I kill you (or anyone) in PVP I will be the one jumping around the living room cheering loudly and probably dying from your friend killing me while I wasn't paying attention.

So for me it's my own skill level rather than a concern that a real person is my opponent that makes PVE more enjoyable game style than PVP. I am also very conscious that I'm not a strong PVP player and that is a disadvantage for the group I am with if it's group based play.

But sometimes I just won't feel like getting totaled while out solo exploring or harvesting (two things I really enjoy in MMO's). I figure with PFO that will be the night I play a different game. That's certainly how it worked in Aion. How often that happens will depend on what else PFO offers me in terms of interest, community and gameplay. For me the PVP nature of the discussions so far is not a show stopper even though I do identify as a PVE player.

Goblin Squad Member

Shadowfall wrote:

I normally lurk around these forums reading but I thought I might share some of my experiences with PVP and why I sometimes find it a challenge as a primarily PVE player.

But sometimes I just won't feel like getting totaled while out solo exploring or harvesting (two things I really enjoy in MMO's). I figure with PFO that will be the night I play a different game. That's certainly how it worked in Aion. How often that happens will depend on what else PFO offers me in terms of interest, community and gameplay. For me the PVP nature of the discussions so far is not a show stopper even though I do identify as a PVE player.

To me from the sounds of it they seem to have most of your concerns addressed as well. Considering the high security zones are more or less designed to make PVP more or less non-existant in them, as well as modules as ways to relax and kill some time and enjoy parts of the game without worrying about PVP.

The level differences sound like they will be fairly minor, which should greatly lower the dues ex machina PVP types (IE the jerks who move in to gank every lower level person they see unprovoked), and lower it down more or less to 80% organized bandits out in the wilderness, of which you should be able to greatly reduce just by traveling with a good crew, and as long as you have some way to contribute, I doubt many will mind you not being the best PVPer ever.

Scarab Sages

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Rafkin wrote:

I understand in a sandbox game it would be silly to restrict players from pvp but i really don't enjoy it. Add in the loss of items from dieing and this is shaping up to be a hardcore gankfest.

I wanted the Pathfinder that we play on a tabletop and that doesn't usually involve players killing each other.

Watching the development blog for Pathfinder Online is like watching a slow motion train wreck. I am horrified... would never want to participate... but can't look away...

Who would take an imagination driven PvE game among friends and turn it into a pvp gank fest and invite THE INTERNET!?

Goblin Squad Member

@Cele, yeah, it's almost as crazy as giving people from the internet the opportunity to come tell them how stupid they are for doing something that so many others really, really wants them to do.


Erikson would have a field day with the basic trust verse basic mistrust being expressed here. Not only how people really seem to mistrust the internet but also how they mistrust other people in general.

If you can't get past this first stage of psychosocial development, how are you supposed to trust anyone you game with?


Cele wrote:
Rafkin wrote:

I understand in a sandbox game it would be silly to restrict players from pvp but i really don't enjoy it. Add in the loss of items from dieing and this is shaping up to be a hardcore gankfest.

I wanted the Pathfinder that we play on a tabletop and that doesn't usually involve players killing each other.

Watching the development blog for Pathfinder Online is like watching a slow motion train wreck. I am horrified... would never want to participate... but can't look away...

Who would take an imagination driven PvE game among friends and turn it into a pvp gank fest and invite THE INTERNET!?

I must have had much better luck, over the past 15 years I've made countless friends (some of which I've gamed with for over a decade now, as well as vacationed with) and met my wife of 11 years in EQ. It bums me out just to think of not knowing these people had I adopted a negative attitude that arbitrarily forced me to avoid interacting with people that also use the internet.

The good people certainly make it easier to tolerate the random creeps determined to spread negativity. I wouldn't write off everyone by default, personally. I'm old, grumpy and cynical, but can't deny there are a hell of a lot of great people out there and a lot of great communities I'd be robbing myself of if I wasn't willing to risk the occasional transparent jerk.

Goblinworks Founder

Prepare for the most random stuff I am throwing out there, in the most unorganized, poorly worded thingy ever! Okay here goes - maybe i'll come back and edit later on.

With Darkfall you were always watching your back; never trusting that person who was fighting close by. Death was always on your mind and was a possibility, but you accepted it as part of the game; you just never took good items with you on a hunt.

Big thing on PvP - Crafters need people to die or lose items. It's just good business sense and reduces item clutter (slightly) by having them lost/destroyed in battle.

If you even mention PvP it should be either all out or none. Specified zones are a nice thought, just lack in fun since people will avoid them so not to die. PvP is a hard to manage and you will NEVER please everyone; but a game like Darkfall should be said doesn't have a huge fan-base just because of the PvP.

With a game like this and being that it's also a PnP game, I can't see why there would not be PvP as bar fights start out, people invade a town, group is after the king so someone else can take over; it's what happens in the PnP game why not in the MMO. You meet the evil adventuring group trying to take the same treasure (there you go a team dungeon, who gets to the treasure first!).

Not saying that someone in town stabbing another person wouldn't be chased by guards, or that wizard sets off a fireball ---- on second thought PvP in NPC towns shouldn't be allowed unless consented between two people, I can just see the trouble magic casters would cause (fun though, just headache for others).

Now if you were in a group of four and came across another group of just three people and decided you wanted their loot. So both of you were locked into a fight(Message saying you are being attacked or just paying attention to the red names) freeing the two groups from outside interference unless you managed to get away from one group at a certain distance. Then you could have had an ambush set up to instantly attack the other group.
This would keep unfair ganks out of the way but not as fun if you wanted to increase your odds of winning.
- Setting up one group to run near monsters and have them join in would still be possible or impossible.

Using this group of three vs four it's still possible for the underdogs to win. You just need to have the right equipment and spells which in some cases isn't always the thought when you leave or prepare spells after rest. But hey PvP was always there it's just called PvE since sometimes you were in control of how and when you'd attack the monster. Being that the person is human it's PvP where one side is ready or not ready to fight the attacker; as monsters were oblivious unless you crossed their threat zone.

Setting up PvP mechanics is tricky I guess with how you want it to work.
- Consensual initiation that can be rejected by the other.
- Full Force PvP where anyone can attack anyone (friendly fire arrow to the back) Which doesn't please people (no one likes losing items, but losing items is good business for crafters).
- PvP that is initiated and no outside force (unless guild wars) can interfere. Monsters may be able to or if you break off a distance.
- Was thinking if group member decided to turncoat and attack his group mates instead.
- None at all and just fight monsters or adventure (wimpy way as some people would like to fight other players)

1d20 + 20 ⇒ (7) + 20 = 271d6 + 2 ⇒ (5) + 2 = 7

One final thing -
I would say grouping should be just held to what is considered the normal adventuring team of four to five people. With raids or other special battles allowing team-ups of more groups/members.

Goblin Squad Member

I think group size is going to be a lot less important in PFO than it is in other games. In Theme Park games, all the content is balanced for a specific group size. That won't matter anywhere near as much in PFO.

I don't remember who it was that said this, but a really cool dynamic that gets lost when group size is constrained to a fairly small number (4-6) is the group that grows and shrinks as people leave or come online.

Grand Lodge Goblin Squad Member

Well, it could be made with a PVP on/off switch. if you want to PVP turn it on, otherwise don't. Additionally if threats are scaled like in other games (color coded) then it should be possible to have players outside of a certain "threat range" to be marked as "invalid for targeting."

Goblin Squad Member

CrankyRWMage wrote:
Well, it could be made with a PVP on/off switch. if you want to PVP turn it on, otherwise don't. Additionally if threats are scaled like in other games (color coded) then it should be possible to have players outside of a certain "threat range" to be marked as "invalid for targeting."

For the ideas behind PFO, both of those are imposible. 1. the PVP is intended to be meaningful, IE there will be motives to prevent people from getting to things etc... If PVP is off you also have to not be able to go or get things from the areas that anyone would want to protect, which considering PKing is going to be highly discouraged and intended to be extremely rare in the high security zones, that is more or less covered already.

2. There are no real "Levels" and the difference in actual power is intended to be on the small side. So actually distinguishing who is more powerful in itself is not necessarally going to even be possible. A character who has been playing 2 years isn't necessarally much stronger than one who has been playing for 1 year. Some may have most of their skills in crafting etc... or some may be wearing gear that isn't focused on what their biggest specialty is, and even at their specialty it isn't necessarally a huge difference in raw power from being new or advanced. They have more or less said that you go up in versatility far more than power, so really it is hard to put a price on any abilities or judge the power of one person over the next.

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