+1 level of spellcasting class?

[Karlgamer]

I'm playing a wizard and I'm planning on adding the Harrower class when I qualify(Probably 5th or 6th level.)

So as I understand it When I add a level of Harrower I get the new spells per day as if I leveled as a wizard.

I am not sure If I get any of my arcane school spells.

I am not sure If I get new school abilities.

I am not sure If I get to add new spell to my spell book. I think I should.

I am not sure what happens if I decide to go back and take another level of wizard.

If my Wizard and caster level are off(due to multiclassing in a prestige class) how does that effect arcane school spells/abilities. Do I retroactively get my arcane school spells or do I just start acuireing them late.

[LazarX]

You get increased caster level and new spells per day.

You don't get your two freebie additions to your spellbook.

You don't get new school abilities.

If you take another level of wizard you get more spells per day and caster level and your two freebies. You advance in school abilities only counting your total wizard class levels.

[Lightbulb]

Right this is slightly confusing.

Eldritch Knight:

Spells per Day: At the indicated levels, an eldritch knight gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained, except for additional spells per day, spells known (if he is a spontaneous spellcaster), and an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class before becoming an eldritch knight, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

I need to look up the real text in the book because on the unofficial srd (rather than the official prd) the text is different which means you do not get the extra spells known.

EDIT - Would appear you do not gain extra spells known. Its written in the actual book as it is on the srd. You could check the FAQ's or someone will correct me if I am wrong I am sure.

----

School abilities and and school spells is straight forward though. Harrower is not Wizard so you gain no such abilities.

When (if) you take take another Wizard level you gain the abilities of your Wizard level but the spells of a wizard of the level of the Wizard + the levels of Harrower. That sound a lot more complex than it is.

Level 8 Wizard takes a level of Harrower - gain level 9 wizard spells. Then take another level of Wizard, gain level 9 wizard abilities but level 10 wizard spells.

[Kieviel]

Like LazarX said your caster level increases and spells per day increase so if you go from 7th to 8th level your fireball goes from 7d6 to 8d6 damage.

If you decide to later take levels in wizard again ONLY the wizard levels would count for your school abilities.

For instance:

Steve is an 8th level Wizard with a focus in Divination and at 9th level he takes his 1st level in Harrower.

Steve is now a 8/Wiz, 1/Harrower with a caster level of 9. Steve gets all the class abilities of an 8th level wizard, a 1st level Harrower and casts spells as a 9th level wizard.

Next level Steve decides to take another level in Harrower.

Steve is now a 8/Wiz, 2/Harrower with a caster level of 10. Steve gets all the class abilities of an 8th level wizard, a 2nd level Harrower and casts spells as a 10th level wizard.

Next level Steve decides to take another level in Wizard.

Steve is now a 9/Wiz, 2/Harrower with a caster level of 11. Steve gets all the class abilities of an 9th level wizard, a 2nd level harrower and casts spells as a 11th level wizard.

Hope this helps.

[Karlgamer]

Okay so I take 6 levels of wizard. Caster level 6
I then take 1 level of Harrower. Caster level 7

Quote:

In addition, specialist wizards receive an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up.

Because I can now cast 4th level spells don't I get an extra spell slot?

I understanding not getting your 8th level arcane school special ability until you become an 8th level wizard but I see no reason why you don't get your extra spells.

But I wouldn't be able to cast 4th level spells anyway(unless I happen to have them or bought them from a shop) because I don't get 2 free spells in my spell book? Which means no leveling in Harrower in the middle of a dungeon.

If this is really how it's suppose to work then I think it needs to be fixed.

[LazarX]

You get your spell slot.

You don't get any new spells in your BOOK for free, but can beg/borrow/steal/buy as normal.

[Karlgamer]

LazarX wrote:

You don't get any new spells in your BOOK for free, but can beg/borrow/steal/buy as normal.

Gotch. This is the part they need to fix them.

[TOZ]

You can easily fix it yourself until then.

[Karlgamer]

TOZ wrote:

You can easily fix it yourself until then.

Yes, but it's not my game and as a rule of thumb I don't lobby GMs to change the rules. I don't like it when players do it to me.

[TriOmegaZero]

Man, I love it when players ask me to change something. It's the best way to know what they think is important.

[Lightbulb]

Karlgamer wrote:

Okay so I take 6 levels of wizard. Caster level 6

I then take 1 level of Harrower. Caster level 7

Quote:

In addition, specialist wizards receive an additional spell slot of each spell level he can cast, from 1st on up.

Because I can now cast 4th level spells don't I get an extra spell slot?

I understanding not getting your 8th level arcane school special ability until you become an 8th level wizard but I see no reason why you don't get your extra spells.

If you took a level of Barbarian should you get the extra school spell? What about Sorcerer? Or Druid?

No, clearly not.

Wizards get the extra slots. Harrower is not a Wizard.

Don't see what needs to be fixed. Put it another way:

If you got the extra spells what do you LOSE to be a Harrower? Some feats and powers? Don't you think that would be a little too powerful?

Prestige classes must give up things for their extra abilities or they will be too powerful.

[TOZ]

The specialist wizard bonus slot is not based on wizard level, but spell level. Thus, taking a level of Harrower that allows you to cast a new level of spells would mean that your specialist wizard ability grants you an extra spell slot of that spell level.

Extra slots fall under 'spells per day', which '+1 level of spellcasting' does increase.

[Karlgamer]

Lightbulb wrote:

If you took a level of Barbarian should you get the extra school spell? What about Sorcerer? Or Druid?

These are not very good examples.

Although I think I get your point.

For the levels I take as a Harrower I don't suffer the Opposed school penalty?

No, clearly not.

[Maerimydra]

Karlgamer wrote:

LazarX wrote:

You don't get any new spells in your BOOK for free, but can beg/borrow/steal/buy as normal.

Gotch. This is the part they need to fix them.

Why? Before 3rd edition wizards used to get their spells only from scrolls and spellbooks, and they did just fine. It can only become a problem if your GM never put scrolls in loot and make you always fight sorcerers instead of wizards.

[Take Boat]

You get the bonus spell slots because they come from the Arcane School class feature that you got at level 1. That feature just mentions "each spell level you can cast" and that's something you certainly get from prestige classes.

If you're worried, Lightbulb, that you "don't give up enough" for this to be the case, compare it to 3.5 where there was basically no reason at all to keep on taking wizard levels. At least in PF you have to take crappy feats for Loremaster, Bloatmage or Harrower. Also Bloatmage is really gross. That's a good reason not to take it.

OP, if your concern is having no spells to prepare if you level up away from town you can just make a modest gp investment and an easy Spellcraft check to write the next level's spells into your spellbook. You don't have to be able to cast the spells to copy them.